how is this a humble stance?

[idav]

isn't that a slave mentality?
even a slave is significant...

Sure we could be significant if God gives us a job.

 

[waitasec]

So, do you believe that people are completely insignificant in the scheme of things? If so, why?

in the scheme of things we are aware of our insignificant solar system as we compare it to the rest of of the universe where a sun dies every second, our galaxy is going to collide with another galaxy....black holes and quasars... it's pretty apparent how insignificant we are. or are you meaning how we are aware of our own mortality? i do not believe that holds any significance in the universe...because people like me have been dying yet life goes on. that isn't insignificant on my level of understanding because i can rationalize and reason the significance because that affects my life.

what i'm trying to convey is that no one on this little planet is more significant than the other, no religion is more significant, no belief system is going to stand out because this little tiny blue planet is insignificant in the universe...that to me is humbling...

 

[waitasec]

i enjoy life, but i find no significance to our existance. once were all gone it will be like we were never here in the first place. the only thing i can do is appreciate the here and now and marvel at the fact that we even exist in the first place.

if theres any reason to exist in the first place, it has to be to appreciate all thats around us, i cant think of another reason

agreed...

 

[waitasec]

I reject the belief that it was created by a God at all, so for someone to claim it was created for us would to me seem to be an extraordinary yet unsubstantiated claim, building on the first unsubstantiated claim.

indeed.
an extraordinary claim needs extraordinary evidence not another extraordinary claim to back it up.

 

[waitasec]

I'm lost.

we are talking about comparing...which gives meaning to significance
which is how one can measure deflation

but it is sheer hubris that one would assume we can compare ourselves to the universe because we are not comparable to it.

as i posited in an earlier post, a bee is comparable to us because in the scheme of our existence they matter...yet they don't matter when it comes to a black hole, so then why would we?

 

[waitasec]

Sure we could be significant if God gives us a job.

to be....

 

[Willamena]

we are talking about comparing...which gives meaning to significance
which is how one can measure deflation

but it is sheer hubris that one would assume we can compare ourselves to the universe because we are not comparable to it.

as i posited in an earlier post, a bee is comparable to us because in the scheme of our existence they matter...yet they don't matter when it comes to a black hole, so then why would we?

By saying it is hubris to assume we can compare ourselves to the universe, do you mean because we are insignificant? That's how I read it, and if so then you're saying that significance lends meaning to the comparison, and to hubris --in the picture you draw we are insignificant before a comparison even begins. That starting place of insignificance is, in my opinion, a type of hubris, albeit one of deflation rather than inflation.

 

[waitasec]

By saying it is hubris to assume we can compare ourselves to the universe, do you mean because we are insignificant? That's how I read it,

yes.

and if so then you're saying that significance lends meaning to the comparison,

yes.

and to hubris --in the picture you draw we are insignificant before a comparison even begins.

absolutely

now isn't that a humbling stance?

That starting place of insignificance is, in my opinion, a type of hubris, albeit one of deflation rather than inflation.

it's the giving ourselves a sense of significance that we can even begin to compare ourselves to the universe, as a way of displaying our pride
or undue importance

 

[Willamena]

yes.

yes.


absolutely

But that would seem to be the opposite of
we are talking about comparing...which gives meaning to significance
which is how one can measure deflation
...which is why I was getting confused.

now isn't that a humbling stance?

I said in my first post, I think it is as much hubris to think ourselves insigificant as significant (though I recognize that "humbling" has its mundane usage).

But maybe that's just me.

 

[Willamena]

it's the giving ourselves a sense of significance that we can even begin to compare ourselves to the universe, as a way of displaying our pride
or undue importance

In my opinion, humbling does away with hubris.

 

[waitasec]

But that would seem to be the opposite of
we are talking about comparing...which gives meaning to significance
which is how one can measure deflation
...which is why I was getting confused.

that's why i brought up being a mother...
a mother can't compare her motherhood to how a race car driver drives.
there is no comparison and therefor an insignificant comparison

I said in my first post, I think it is as much hubris to think ourselves insigificant as significant (though I recognize that "humbling" has its mundane usage).

But maybe that's just me.

when i say humbling i mean our default position...

 

[Willamena]

when i say humbling i mean our default position...

Which is...?

(Insignificance? :no

 

[Willamena]

that's why i brought up being a mother...
a mother can't compare her motherhood to how a race car driver drives.
there is no comparison and therefor an insignificant comparison

I wasn't talking about the significance or insignificance of a comparison, I was talking about a comparison that results in your (our) insignificance.

"I am not worthy."
"I am small."
"I am limited."
"I am flawed."

If you begin from that point you've already made a comparison and you are the result.

 

[waitasec]

Which is...?

(Insignificance? :no

ha ha

i'll edit another post of mine...

our significance in the universe in not even comparable to the significance of a black hole...people like me have been born and die everyday yet life goes on. that isn't insignificant on my level of understanding because i can rationalize and reason the significance as that affects my life...
what else affects my life...the sun, the stars and the moon all these things affect me, yet i am insignificant to them because i do not effect the stars the sun or the moon.

 

[waitasec]

I wasn't talking about the significance or insignificance of a comparison, I was talking about a comparison that results in your (our) insignificance.

"I am not worthy."
"I am small."
"I am limited."
"I am flawed."

If you begin from that point you've already made a comparison and you are the result.

if all of us had the same understanding that
we are not worthy
we are small
we are limited
and we are flawed
because we all live on a tiny planet

then there is no room for deflation

 

[idav]

our significance in the universe in not even comparable to the significance of a black hole...people like me have been born and die everyday yet life goes on. that isn't insignificant on my level of understanding because i can rationalize and reason the significance as that affects my life...
what else affects my life...the sun, the stars and the moon all these things affect me, yet i am insignificant to them because i do not effect the stars the sun or the moon.

Your relating our significance with our ability to effect various parts of the universe. In this sense earth is insignificant and the Milky Way wouldn't miss our little planet in the scheme of things. We will always be insignificant in someones perspective if they never come in contact with us but it doesn't make it so overall. If we had the ability to destroy a neighboring star would that make humans worth more? That being said we have come to a point in technology where we can start sending out waves and satellites and even microbes into the vastness of space so the culmination has become something of great potential. What is happening on this little planet could eventually still have an impact but in the end is still insignificant since the it will eventually all end in a cold death which brings me to nihilism.

 

[Willamena]

if all of us had the same understanding that
we are not worthy
we are small
we are limited
and we are flawed
because we all live on a tiny planet

then there is no room for deflation

But some of us have healthy egos.
(i.e. not deflated)

 

[waitasec]

But some of us have healthy egos.
(i.e. not deflated)

no, really? :sarcastic

 

[Willamena]

no, really? :sarcastic

Just to reiterate, I'm saying that once you've reached the point of

we are not worthy
we are small
we are limited
and we are flawed

...you have already deflated a healthy ego by making a comparison.

 

[waitasec]

Your relating our significance with our ability to effect various parts of the universe. In this sense earth is insignificant and the Milky Way wouldn't miss our little planet in the scheme of things. We will always be insignificant in someones perspective if they never come in contact with us but it doesn't make it so overall.

it's not the contact it's how we affect them...

If we had the ability to destroy a neighboring star would that make humans worth more?

i don't think so...how does it affect us if we did...? knowing we can and doing it means nothing unless there was an affect...

That being said we have come to a point in technology where we can start sending out waves and satellites and even microbes into the vastness of space so the culmination has become something of great potential. What is happening on this little planet could eventually still have an impact but in the end is still insignificant since the it will eventually all end in a cold death which brings me to nihilism.

but the state of nihilism isn't a apart of our existence right now...and that is significant to us