waitasec
Veteran Member
but making a comparison to what exactly? certainly not comparing ourselves to each other.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
how is this a humble stance?
- Thread starter waitasec
- Start date
but making a comparison to what exactly? certainly not comparing ourselves to each other.
Yes but affecting is only relative to that person. An ape in the congo is significant even if it isn't significant to us in particular.
Your comparison was that of a black hole being more significant than humans. If we could destroy a star we would be as significant as a black hole.
Just the same the rest of the universe is the biggest part of existence right now. Existence itself IS what is significant whether it is a star a planet or a lifeform.
It doesn't matter: whatever comparison it was that allowed you (us) to come to the conclusion that we are not worthy, small, limited, flawed, or insignificant.
waitasec
Veteran Member
actually i believe apes are significant to us because their existence affects the balance of life...maybe not immediately but it does...
we are not even comparable to a black hole.
a black hole is significant to us because a black hole can ruin our day, but we are not significant to it. if earth were to be sucked into a black hole it would be, from what i've been told, compressed to the size of a baseball.
us blowing up a star isn't significant to us other than knowing we have the ability but how can that affect us as a black hole can?
maybe... our significant existence is relative...not to us of course.
The apes might be important to one person because they find their plight significant --perhaps they empathize with the butchering of animals just to have their heads and hands put on display. To another person, both the issue of butchering and the plight of the apes may be insignificant, because they care more about the people who are struggling for a living, who need to find some means of sustenance, and if they have to do so by getting a year's worth of salary in one sale of one poached ape part, then to them that's justified.
No one's going to assign significance to the same things or for the same reasons. Ever. I don't think that detracts from the argument, which is that deflated significance is no more or less hubris than inflated significance.
No one's going to assign significance to the same things or for the same reasons. Ever. I don't think that detracts from the argument, which is that deflated significance is no more or less hubris than inflated significance.
waitasec
Veteran Member
just as long as we do not compare ourselves to each other...
In the case of deflating ego, that's usually the first comparison. But in the specific case of the OP we are compared the universe. In what way are we insignificant?
Brilliant.
That's hubris, just so. The significance of the simple fact "we are" inflated with an added "reason for being."
waitasec
Veteran Member
an ecosystem will be affected
and ecosystems affect larger eco systems
the thing to remember is that our ecosystem (earth) has no significance to a black hole.
actually i take that back, black holes do depend on us in order to complete it's task of consuming everything
so then were we created to be sucked into a black hole?
what makes significance deflate though....?
there has to be a default setting and it changes from there, right?
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Would it be hubris for a few bacteria in our gut to think we were made for them? I don't know whether it's hubris or not, but it is rather silly.
When it comes down to it, I think most people who think the universe was made for humans do so from a woefully limited perspective of scale and a lack of imagination.
Significance doesn't deflate, rather it's significant that we do. "Small," "unworthy," "insignificant" are us deflated. Our own significance.
The default setting for a person, for "me," is "I am." That's usually significant: existence is good.
Edit: One moment you're normal-sized, and the next there's a vast universe before you and *poof* you become small (gasp!). What is the default? It's you being just what you are.
Last edited:
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
Not if it's explicitly stated in scripture, no!
I quote the Baha'i scriptures:
"O SON OF MAN!
"Veiled in my immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image, and revealed to thee My beauty."
-- ­The Hidden Words, Part One, #3
O SON OF BOUNTY!
Out of the wastes of nothingness, with the clay of My command I made thee to appear, and have ordained for thy training every atom in existence and the essence of all created things. Thus, ere thou didst issue from thy mothers womb, I destined for thee two founts of gleaming milk, eyes to watch over thee, and hearts to love thee. Out of My loving-kindness, neath the shade of My mercy I nurtured thee, and guarded thee by the essence of My grace and favor. And My purpose in all this was that thou mightest attain My everlasting dominion and become worthy of My invisible bestowals .
-- Ibid., Part One, #32
XXVII "Having created the world and all that liveth and moveth therein, He, through the direct operation of His unconstrained and sovereign Will, chose to confer upon man the unique distinction and capacity to know Him and to love Him--a capacity that must needs be regarded as the generating impulse and the primary purpose underlying the whole of creation.... Upon the inmost reality of each and every created thing He hath shed the light of one of His names, and made it a recipient of the glory of one of His attributes. Upon the reality of man, however, He hath focused the radiance of all of His names and attributes, and made it a mirror of His own Self. Alone of all created things man hath been singled out for so great a favor, so enduring a bounty."
-- Gleanings, p. 65
Peace,
Bruce
waitasec
Veteran Member
waitasec
Veteran Member
waitasec
Veteran Member
i rest my case...
waitasec
Veteran Member
That's all "size" is.
Have I explained myself adequately then?
:chuckle:
so when one is unduly inflated are they to remain inflated and not be reminded of their default position, which so happens to be the same of those doing the reminding?
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
Okay first off, upping the size and making it darker for more contrast is a rather blunt way to go about trying to smack someone with your position, however it does not make it any more valid than otherwise and simply makes people who do not hold that position wince at your temerity to impose yourself in such a way which is rather unpleasant to read (as far as people's eyesight) given the context of the rest of the thread's text formatting.
That stated, while it is arrogant to suppose that earth is God's primary or even sole focus for existence, it is even MORE arrogant to assume that you have access to the intent of 'God' through your religious texts or other such sources.
It is extraordinary arrogant that someone can simultaneously claim that their 'God' is the supreme entity who is omnipotent, omniscient and so forth, who's existence is so far beyond our own that we cannot comprehend 'God's full nature - yet at the same time claim that we have absolute certain access to sources of information that accurately depict 'God's intent. Perhaps we might claim that it is a general guide about some theological aspects, but to claim that it is the literal truth of a limitless 'God' is an absurdity given that it is capable of being communicated in any human and therefore limited language (not to mention any number of other problems with that concept, such as our individual ability to then understand that communication as limited humans and so forth).
Last edited: