As far as the 'there is no proof of this at all' repIy, I would agree. I feel now that after centuries of debate there is certainly no PROOF for or against the idea that intelligence created the universe. If there was a PROOF then all intelligent people would believe the same thing.
I think we have to retire the word 'PROOF' from this discussion and we have to discuss what is the most reasonable belief given the totality of the evidence available to us humans. I personally believe intelligence created the universe not because of faith but because I concluded that it is the most reasonable explanation. Why I believe it is the most reasonable belief could go on for threads and threads but my main reason is the consistant and impressive testimony of the great spiritual masters and mystics that unite temporarily with super-consciousness beyond the physical.
As far as 'what god did it', there is only one universe and one God. Don't let the multiple religions throw you, there is only one religion and that is the religion of love. Mankind as a whole is still in its early stage of spiritual enlightenment and the apparent multiplicity of religions and gods is because of different historical and cultural conditions. As spiritual enlightment increases the difference between these religions will shrink until they are all basically one.
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Hey, I am agnostic and don't believe in any organized religions.
"As far as 'what god did it', there is only one universe and one God."
This is what they all say.
"that is the religion of love."
Love is a good and needed thing, however its also chemically the same as doing cocaine and Oxytocin and dopamine. That is why it makes you feel high.
Loving with all your ... brain
"
Dr. Brown said scientists believe that when you fall in love, the ventral tegmental floods the caudate with dopamine. The caudate then sends signals for more dopamine.
"The more dopamine you get, the more of a high you feel," Dr. Brown says.
Or as her colleague, Dr. Helen Fisher put it: When you fall in love,
"exactly the same system becomes active as when you take cocaine. You can feel intense elation when you're in love. You can feel intense elation when you're high on cocaine."
Loving with all your ... brain - CNN
How Love Hormones Work: Oxytocin Increases Intimacy & Bonding, Eases Psychological Disorders
Oxytocin is a brain chemical that mediates social behavior, which is why it’s sometimes called the “love hormone.” Oxytocin is released when mothers and babies first bond; it’s also present in intense emotional states. Oxytocin increases intimacy and bonding in sexual relationships.
How Love Hormones Work
Oxytocin is known as a love hormone because it goes beyond the mother-child connection to bonding in intimate relationships. Oxytocin is released during hugging and intimate touch; it also plays a strong role in sexual relationships.
“It’s said that the eyes are the window to the soul…they certainly are the window to the emotional brain,” said Dr Kai MacDonald. “We know that the eye-to-eye communication — which is affected by oxytocin — is critical to intimate emotional communication for all kind of emotions – love, fear, trust, anxiety.”
Oxytocin is a love hormone because it helps people bond in relationships, set up appropriate psychological boundaries, and maintain intimate relationships.
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Which is why I personally believe some drug addict's who quit drugs find the same high with religion.
"I think we have to retire the word 'PROOF' from this discussion and we have to discuss what is the most reasonable belief given the totality of the evidence available to us humans."
I don't think so. We could just say we don't know at this time and not make things personally up to fit our beliefs
we took a picture of the afterglow of the big bang, before any stars or glaxies existed.
We might be on the verge as well as finding possible multiverses. We could find all kinds of life in the universe all with some kind of their own personal religions or some not at all. Or some that might even have the answers. One thing for sure, superstition in religions has been shown to be a problem. Like the earth is fixed on its axis example. Thankfully, Galileo didn't retire the word 'PROOF' and we made a huge leap in understanding. Or hubble who discovered it wasn't just the milkyway but 100 of billions of galaxies.
"beyond the physical." is supernatural and we honestly don't know of anything supernatural except in our own heads we make up because we don't have the answers, so its a tendency of humans to fill in the gaps. Its either physical and natural or doesn't exist that we know of if were honest. Things labeled supernatural in the past had totally natural explanations later down the line. In fact millions of innocent people have been killed because of others beliefs in the supernatural. Where is the love in that fact.
I am with you on the "spiritual enlightment" however in so much as we are made out of star dust and were as much a part of the universe as anything else in it. I think you can draw from the universe positive and negative energy from it and that is our choice.
