How materialists find meaning in life

[Saint Frankenstein]

For example, how can I say that an object such as a pen is still a pen if it has faded away from existence? The pen (or, in this case, a living human being such as your mother) is someone very special. But when it fades away from existence, you can no longer say that the pen is still a pen just as you can no longer say that your mother still exists. The human being (your mother) no longer exists. She is no longer a person anymore. So she is nobody now just as how the pen is no longer a pen when it fades away from existence such as being burned away by fire.

You know, my mother died about a month ago. Probably not the best example to use.

I'm just not seeing how someone's body dying necessarily leads to their non-existence.

 

[outhouse]

When you say "they," it is just a memory. It is not the real them which is nevermore.

I'm sorry people die.

Get over it, one day you will be dead to.

You only get one life, anything else is factually not life.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

You know, my mother died about a month ago. Probably not the best example to use.

I'm just not seeing how someone's body dying necessarily leads to their non-existence.

They might exist in your heart and as memories, but it is not the real them. It is just memories and feelings of them. There is a big difference here. The real them is gone.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

They might exist in your heart and as memories, but it is not the real them. It is just memories and feelings of them. There is a big difference here. The real them is gone.

You're not answering my question. I'm wondering why you think we cease to exist after death. I already know your view, I'm asking why you believe that.

 

[outhouse]

but it is not the real them.

That is because the REAL them died.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

You're not answering my question. I'm wondering why you think we cease to exist after death. I already know your view, I'm asking why you believe that.

I thought you were instead asking why a person becomes nobody if they were to forever die. As for my view, I go by what is mainly accepted by scientists. Since it is widely accepted that the brain produces consciousness and that you forever die once your brain dies while it is often rejected and not commonly accepted at all among scientists that you do live on after you die, then this is why I am a materialist and think that when you die, that is it.

 

[outhouse]

I go by what is mainly accepted by scientists

Why are you contradicting yourself?

 

[George-ananda]

Personally I believe, from evidence in psychology, that everything which makes us conscious individuals is tied directly to physical mechanisms which support that function. And that the destruction of the physical mechanism is tantamount to the destruction of the conscious individual.

And I believe from my study of the afterlife evidence that death is not the end. Here's a website if you want an idea of multiple areas of evidence that has convinced me...AFTERLIFE EVIDENCE

I don't view it as depressing, but amazing.

It's depressing sounding when you believe the alternative. However if I didn't believe in an afterlife I would probably come to terms with that.

And I feel fortunate to have this amazing life without the need to attach what I believe is metaphysical skullduggery to to boundary.

I understand the first part of that sentence but I am not clear on the last part. I hope I am not involved in any skullduggery?

So yes, I'd say we're at an impasse.

You misunderstood me. You and I are not at an impasse, we just accept we disagree. The impasse was meant for Matt's position of not believing in an afterlife while also requiring said belief to be happy.

 

[psychoslice]

Its the ego who cannot imagine not being around anymore, those who truly enjoy life are far too busy worrying about what is going to happen after life, life will take care of itself, it doesn't need you or me to interfere, so just set back and let it all happen, let it all flow, and stuff whatever happens after, that is just wasting your life here and NOW.

 

[outhouse]

me...AFTERLIFE EVIDENCE

There is nothing credible there.

 

[George-ananda]

There is nothing credible there.

You must either have read and analyzed very fast, or have a quick-trigger prejudice against anything that smacks of God or the paranormal.

 

[outhouse]

the paranormal

And credible are opposites

 

[ADigitalArtist]

And I believe from my study of the afterlife evidence that death is not the end. Here's a website if you want an idea of multiple areas of evidence that has convinced me...AFTERLIFE EVIDENCE

It's depressing sounding when you believe the alternative. However if I didn't believe in an afterlife I would probably come to terms with that.

I understand the first part of that sentence but I am not clear on the last part. I hope I am not involved in any skullduggery?

You misunderstood me. You and I are not at an impasse, we just accept we disagree. The impasse was meant for Matt's position of not believing in an afterlife while also requiring said belief to be happy.

Let's trade then. This talks about my conceptual problems with substance dualism and the idea of souls.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Its the ego who cannot imagine not being around anymore, those who truly enjoy life are far too busy worrying about what is going to happen after life, life will take care of itself, it doesn't need you or me to interfere, so just set back and let it all happen, let it all flow, and stuff whatever happens after, that is just wasting your life here and NOW.

My life is already wasted now. There is no more joy or meaning at all and nothing I do changes this.

 

[outhouse]

My life is already wasted now. There is no more joy or meaning at all and nothing I do changes this.

You have other issues going on that have nothing to do with this forum

 

[psychoslice]

My life is already wasted now. There is no more joy or meaning at all and nothing I do changes this.

Well that is your wish, and that is how it will be for you, wast your life the best that you can.

 

[George-ananda]

Let's trade then. This talks about my conceptual problems with substance dualism and the idea of souls.

I did take the time to watch the whole thing. My thought is that he is concerning himself with traditional western ideas and thinkers and didn't appear to address other schools of thought. . I think the Vedic (Hindu) sources are ahead of the west on these subjects. This Advaita model takes time to understand and explain as it is actually the opposite of materialism;

Materialism: Matter is primary and consciousness is a derivative of matter
Advaita: Consciousness is primary and matter is a derivative of consciousness

But anyway getting down to the details of an afterlife, a human is actually a composition of interpenetrating bodies in eastern thought; physical, etheric, astral and mental. They operate in sympathetic vibration with each other. At death the astral/mental bodies are what continue for some time with the identification of the previous person (as reported in Near Death Experiences). They just notice a lighter feeling without the clunky physical outer shell.

These planes exist in different dimensional and vibrational realms. Denser planes can not directly detect the higher more subtle planes.

But anyway, the afterlife evidence stands even if the mechanisms involved were completely unknown.

 

[outhouse]

My life is already wasted now. .

No it is not. Life is like a roller coaster and you will not always be at the bottom looking up.

You will look down again.

There is no more joy or meaning at all and nothing I do changes this.

That very well may be. But a public forum is not the best place to air out your frustrations bud.

PM me if you need someone to talk to.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I did take the time to watch the whole thing. My thought is that he is concerning himself with traditional western ideas and thinkers and didn't appear to address other schools of thought. . I think the Vedic (Hindu) sources are ahead of the west on these subjects. This Advaita model takes time to understand and explain as it is actually the opposite of materialism;

Materialism: Matter is primary and consciousness is a derivative of matter
Advaita: Consciousness is primary and matter is a derivative of consciousness

But anyway getting down to the details of an afterlife, a human is actually a composition of interpenetrating bodies in eastern thought; physical, etheric, astral and mental. They operate in sympathetic vibration with each other. At death the astral/mental bodies are what continue for some time with the identification of the previous person (as reported in Near Death Experiences). They just notice a lighter feeling without the clunky physical outer shell.

These planes exist in different dimensional and vibrational realms. Denser planes can not directly detect the higher more subtle planes.

But anyway, the afterlife evidence stands even if the mechanisms involved were completely unknown.

I don't think there is that much of a differentiation when talking strictly about substance dualism in the way the video is addressing. It's not asking about if consciousness came first but rather how could consciousness exist with a undemonstrative and incredulously vague framework, even as a working definition let alone in function. Both Eastern and Western schools of theology posit a non-physical consciousness and attempts to back it with non-empirical sources, like NDEs, while simultaneously saying there is empirical evidence. The first link in the website you gave me lists things as evidence like ouija boards, mediums that were convicted frauds, and doctored voice tapes. Obviously I nor most skeptics are going to accept these as anything even approaching conclusive. So I don't actually think the evidence does stand as such.

 

[psychoslice]

Everyone will in their own way find a meaning in their life, may that be a religious belief or whatsoever.