How Much Do You Doubt God's Existence?

[ChristineM]

So you cant answer a question. You use vague words like confirming statement which is completely unclear what you are wanting.

Yes it is your view but the statement of "you will meet him whether you want to" is the very core of the evil I experienced in Christianity. It is full of implied fear not love. And all of those who used it were steeped in biblical perspective. They always proclaimed love yet projected fear into others. I have experienced the fear for far to long so I will ask yo not to use that statement with me. I no longer want to be under the fear of a god. I rejected and now have found now finally found peace and love. I have finally experienced unconditional love in the goddess. If you want to meet him that is wonderful but do not tell me I will meet him. For me "him" is disconnected and jealous of the rest of the world so gives his followers the illusion of I am greater than when it does not exist. The I am greater than is at the root of evil and destruction of this world. Prove me wrong. Let me know that the other gods and goddess are equal and just different ways. I you will state that all gods are equal then I will listen. Otherwise keep your I am greater than god with you and do not imply I will meet him. It is about as effective as me saying you will meet the goddess in the end no matter what you believe in.

Yeah, been there, that's why i became atheist.

 

[Kenny]

@Kenny is far from the only Christian I've seen engage in empty threats and revenge fantasies like this. It seems to be a core aspect of the religion in the same way that, say, belief in the Trinity is a core aspect.

I always wondered why you sound so angry.

 

[Aupmanyav]

They are not God, itself.

What is the evidence for God him/itself? If none, then why use the word? All conflict is because of this God or that God, this messenger or that.

.. for a while I was sure that I seen a ghost on a couple of occasions. When it came to gods, I haven't even had that much.

Ghosts are there, they are the souls of dead people. Does God have soul?
I suppose God has a soul. Bible mentions a ghost.

.. we know that things don't usually happen without a reason.

Yeah true. I do not know why virtual particles come up and vanish, and why virtual particles can turn into real particles or vice-versa.

 

[F1fan]

As far as I can remember, yes.

I've never seen anything myself that ever even hinted to me that God might be real.

This is in contrast to other "supernatural" things: when I was 11 or 12, I convinced myself for a while that I had psychic abilities; as a teenager, for a while I was sure that I seen a ghost on a couple of occasions. When it came to gods, I haven't even had that much.

I don't remember ever feeling like God is part of the explanation for how things are, or that my understanding of the world would be better if I assumed God existed.

I was around 8-9-10 when I started having doubts that what I was being told about a God existing wasn't true. I was being told things that did not mak any sense. I saw my Baptist aunt have serious conflict with my Catholic aunt over religion, and that smacked of hypocrisy (even though I didn't know that word, I recognized the inconsistency).

To my mind if adults believe these ideas they need to live these ideas, and they didn't. My sister told me that if I said I'm greater than God that God would kill me. I tested that claim. I grasped for immediate death as I said outloud "I'm greater than God." I said it a few more times. Nothing. Someone told my sister that nonsense, and she believed it. I didn't, I tested the idea. My whole life I kept testing these ideas of a God existing, and watched how those who believed behaved, and if the behavior showed me something special about them. It didn't. I remember my Catholic cousins (9 of them) dread going to Christmas Mass and many would opt for Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve so they could have all Christmas day for themselves. They weren't excited about Mass, but they were taught that is what they had to do. They did it more for devotion to the clan than to Catholicism.

The only thing that ever suggested to me that God might be real are other people who have seemed really sure that God is real.

The odd thing is that the more certain the believer the less moral and rational they tend to be. Creationists are often certain God exists and believe in their interpretation of Genesis, and that it supercedes science. Even more extreme are suicide bombers, like the 9-11 hijackers. Think about how certain you have to be that God exists if you are going to kill yourself as you kill other people. Sincere knowledge of a God, or delusion?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I always wondered why you sound so angry.

Projection.

 

[F1fan]

Nobody is saying that ..

Not directly. But critical thinkers ask those who claim a God exists and created the universe just what caused God to exist, and they have no answer. It's just part of their religious doctrine, not factual.

we know that things don't usually happen without a reason .

We know the reasons why theists believe in non-factual ideas that defy reason and knowledge: social/cultural influence.

Evolution is not a reason for things to exist .. it's a process.

Look at you getting something right. Good for you.

 

[Kenny]

Projection.

OK

Sending you a little love

 

[F1fan]

In Islam, Kids when die they enter paradise direct.

Catholicism created Limbo for infants who died since they couldn't accept Jesus as savior. But that turned out to be very unpopular, so they got rid of it and now claim the same thing.

All will die soon or later. Expired bodies.

The fear of death and oblivion is one reason why religions are so popular, as they promise an afterlife. I find this immoral and exploitive.

Why should God show Him self through shape of body to you, to believe on Him?

I never asked for God to show himself in any shape. I expect a God to act in a way that is consistent with what believers claim, namely that God is moral and loving. I find nothing loving about a world where children get sick and die. Or even mothers of children die of cancers. What we observe is a world that behaves exactly as if no God exists in the way most believers say and believe.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why should God show Him self through shape of body to you, to believe on Him?

And what stops him from doing that if he so desires? Hinduism has 'avataras'.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Evolution as a process also has its own explanation for why it occurs..

Not exactly .. unless you can show us?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I was around 8-9-10 when I started having doubts that what I was being told about a God existing wasn't true. I was being told things that did not mak any sense. I saw my Baptist aunt have serious conflict with my Catholic aunt over religion, and that smacked of hypocrisy (even though I didn't know that word, I recognized the inconsistency).

To my mind if adults believe these ideas they need to live these ideas, and they didn't. My sister told me that if I said I'm greater than God that God would kill me. I tested that claim. I grasped for immediate death as I said outloud "I'm greater than God." I said it a few more times. Nothing. Someone told my sister that nonsense, and she believed it. I didn't, I tested the idea. My whole life I kept testing these ideas of a God existing, and watched how those who believed behaved, and if the behavior showed me something special about them. It didn't. I remember my Catholic cousins (9 of them) dread going to Christmas Mass and many would opt for Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve so they could have all Christmas day for themselves. They weren't excited about Mass, but they were taught that is what they had to do. They did it more for devotion to the clan than to Catholicism.

The odd thing is that the more certain the believer the less moral and rational they tend to be. Creationists are often certain God exists and believe in their interpretation of Genesis, and that it supercedes science. Even more extreme are suicide bombers, like the 9-11 hijackers. Think about how certain you have to be that God exists if you are going to kill yourself as you kill other people. Sincere knowledge of a God, or delusion?

My grandmother was a devout Baptist. She also wore a fur coat. As a child, I think I approached both of these things with the same attitude: being religious and wearing fur coats were both things that people did in other places or bygone eras, not really here in modern-day Canada... I saw my grandmother as just a bit of an old-fashioned holdover from a previous time. Edit: it probably didn't help that she didn't want people to know her age, so anytime my sister or I would ask how old she was, she'd just say "I'm 100 years old." She was probably only in her late 50s when we started asking, but when I was a little kid, I believed her and got the impression that she was very, very old.

... so I knew about religion and grew up with lots of stories about religious ancestors, but it just didn't occur to me until surprisingly late in my childhood that religion was something that I, a Canadian kid, was supposed to consider as a serious option for myself.

I don't think I met anyone my own age who was openly religious until I was 12 or 13, when I found out that a couple of my classmates were very devout Christians. I remember being quite surprised.

 

[PureX]

What is the evidence for God him/itself? If none, then why use the word? All conflict is because of this God or that God, this messenger or that.

Evidence is not the determiner of all truth or reality. Let's not get so carried away. Nor is "all conflict because of this God or that". That's an absurd statement.

Ghosts are there, they are the souls of dead people. Does God have soul?

Yeah true. I do not know why virtual particles come up and vanish, and why virtual particles can turn into real particles or vice-versa.

There is a great deal we humans don't know about the meta-event we call existence. So much so that nearly anything is possible. Including whatever God we might choose to imagine.

 

[Sargonski]

We are not talking about strawmen, we are talking of imagination. You can't get your head round that then tough, im done

You were the one crying out "Strawman fallacy" .. your post consisting of 1) strawman fallacy 2) assumed premise fallacy and 3) Wet Dreams .. rather than an argument of some kind defending your crucified posiion ... which .. like 123 .. is a fallacy .. and ridiculous falsehood that you can't seem to grasp the basic logic.

If you have not defined what God is .. your defacto claims about that God are falsehoods by definition .. the falsehood being that you do not know for a fact that the claim is true .. Thats what "Defacto" means .. that you know for a fact your claim is true. .. So even if it turns out that your claim that God does not exist is true .... your claim that you know this defacto is a raging falsehood .. and impossibility.

The fact that you have not defined God .. makes your claim doubly false .. and demonstrably false .. as many people throughout History have believed the Sun was a God .. proving your claim false .. that God does not exist .. by the definition of the Sun Worshipers.

Since you did not and will not define your terms .. Your statement is a statement of nothing .. completely void of meaning and purpose.

What are you defining as God ? .. what are you claiming does not exist ? The Wind ?

 

[ChristineM]

You were the one crying out "Strawman fallacy" .. your post consisting of 1) strawman fallacy 2) assumed premise fallacy and 3) Wet Dreams .. rather than an argument of some kind defending your crucified posiion ... which .. like 123 .. is a fallacy .. and ridiculous falsehood that you can't seem to grasp the basic logic.

If you have not defined what God is .. your defacto claims about that God are falsehoods by definition .. the falsehood being that you do not know for a fact that the claim is true .. Thats what "Defacto" means .. that you know for a fact your claim is true. .. So even if it turns out that your claim that God does not exist is true .... your claim that you know this defacto is a raging falsehood .. and impossibility.

The fact that you have not defined God .. makes your claim doubly false .. and demonstrably false .. as many people throughout History have believed the Son was a God .. proving your claim false .. that God does not exist .. by the definition of the Sun Worshipers.

Since you did not and will not define your terms .. Your statement is a statement of nothing .. completely void of meaning and purpose.

What are you defining as God ? .. what are you claiming does not exist ? The Wind ?

You argue using strawmen and push your wet dreams of hate then that do you expect?

I have no need to define imaginary characters just to please you.

In the words of the famous french person "bof!"

Have a good day

Edit : just consider, had you been less aggressive then perhaps this conversation would have had a different result.

BTW, i have twice now given my definition of god, but you are too hell bent on argument to notice.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Not exactly .. unless you can show us?

Sure, Mutation - Wikipedia, DNA damage (naturally occurring) - Wikipedia, DNA damage theory of aging - Wikipedia, Triple-stranded DNA - Wikipedia

 

[Aupmanyav]

So much so that nearly anything is possible. Including whatever God we might choose to imagine.

Not really. Will I find an elephant in it when I open my cupboard? A pretty little Ganesha/Appu?
Appu - New Delhi Asian Games Mascot, 1982

The fact that you have not defined God ..

Atheists do not define God, theists do - variously.

 

[F1fan]

God knows certain things but does not plan malfunctions.

God ONLY knows CERTAIN things, not ALL things. So that is a limited God that does not have full control over the universe.

Your opinion here directly contradicts another Christian's claim that God plans everything. So explain the disagreement and why the Bible isn't clearer. Could it be you recognize a flaw in creation and are trying to make excuses for God?

He could know everything but He also can limit Himself as to what He foresees.

A willfully blind and ignorant God. How would it know what to blind itself to unless it knew what would or could happen?

If you are suggesting God is blind to human reproduction and that the lottery of genes sometimes results in defects, he can then absolve himself of accountability for not curing children with fatal diseases? Why bother praying for miracles knowning God is blind and indifferent to your plight? God would have to not hear these prayers since they would reveal the things God wants to avoid knowing.

I believe the Bible and thus circumstances must be taken in context. I figure you don't believe the account of Adam and Eve,

You don't have to figure, I have been vocal about how it is clearly not true or factual in any way.

and I know not all who profess to believe in God do either,

Indeed, some theists exhibit moderate reasoning skill where it comes to the more implausible stories in their lore.

but according to the Bible they decided they did not want to be in subjection to their creator,

A decision they made without the advatage of knowledge, so easily manipulated and duped. Did God know they would be easily duped when He sent the serpent to tempt them? If not then it was a blunder on God's part, and a major flaw for God opting to blind himself to certain things.

He therefore allowed them to be on their own.

Not when He sent the serpent to tempt them. That's the opposite of letting them be.

He (1) did not know in advance that they would disobey Him because that is His decision,

Then we can't dismiss a design flaw in A&E, and especially when God decided to find out how obedient He made them by deliberately sending the serpent to test them. Major fail on God's part, and He should have remained aware of what the hell He was doing. Total incompetence.

and (2) He does not plan deformities but allows them at the present time because yes, of the sin of Adam.

All as God created due to incompetence and a lack of accountability. A creator God could have fixed his blunder, but just went along with the mistake. Blunder #2. The buck stops at the Creator. Everything that exists is due to what the Creator did.

 

[Sargonski]

You argue using strawmen and push your wet dreams of hate then that do you expect?

I have no need to define imaginary characters just to please you.

Have a good day

What strawman .. What words put on you were you claiming to not have spoken ? Ridiculous imaginary nonsense indeed,

Second .. you are the one making defacto claims about imaginary characters that you have not defined ... and thus your claim is a raging falsehood .. by definition. If you don't want to define what you mean by God that is fine .. but that will not turn falsehood into turth I am afraid

 

[ChristineM]

What strawman .. What words put on you were you claiming to not have spoken ? Ridiculous imaginary nonsense indeed,

Second .. you are the one making defacto claims about imaginary characters that you have not defined ... and thus your claim is a raging falsehood .. by definition. If you don't want to define what you mean by God that is fine .. but that will not turn falsehood into turth I am afraid

Comparison with the sun for example.

You asked for my definition, that's what you got whether you like it or not. Unless you have any proof to show i am wrong then I've finished with you repeatedly pushing the same thing

BTW, I edited my post, perhaps you should re-read it. Or perhaps not,ita up to you

 

[PureX]

Atheists do not define God, theists do - variously.

No one defines God. No one can.

The most anyone can do is define how they imagine God being.

Atheists imagine that God doesn't exist. But that position is just as imaginary as any theist's conception of God.