How much does the Christian God really love us?

[Enoughie]

But in his grace all you have to do to put things right is to repent of you arrogance.

Speaking of arrogance. If you're such a humble servant of God, how come you are one of the very few in this forum to deem your own words so important as to deserve over-sized fonts and loud colors?

Where is this self-importance coming from? Your God?

I guess arrogance doesn't just go away when you clasp your hands together and mumble a few words into the air.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[free spirit]

Speaking of arrogance. If you're such a humble servant of God, how come you are one of the very few in this forum to deem your own words so important as to deserve over-sized fonts and loud colors?

Where is this self-importance coming from? Your God?

I guess arrogance doesn't just go away when you clasp your hands together and mumble a few words into the air.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

Good Point, Yes I am ignorant of many things and one of them is the right way of how to quote properly on this forum I have tried every thing without succes will you have the patience to theach me step by step, because I am a bit slow in the up take please.
Thanks in anticipation.

 

[free spirit]

If the "Old" covenant was supposed to be replaced by a "New" covenant, why does Isaiah 24:5 say that covenant is forever?

"The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, violated the statute, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24:5).

This not only shows that the N.T. is inconsistent with the O.T., it blatantly contradicts it.

So how can you rationalize your "understanding" that the N.T. came to "complete" the O.T.?! (quote)

I can understand your frustration, you are looking for answers and allways come out with empty hands, this mayby is what you are looking for.
Hebrews 8:7-13 but in the old testament you will find it in jeremiah 31:31-34.
"7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
8 For finding fault with them, he says. Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant, which I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and I will write them upon their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
11 And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, and everyone his brother, saying know the Lord, for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more,
13 When he said, a new covenant, he has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear."

What do you have to say to that

 

[JustWondering]

So how much does the Christian God really love us?

God as depicted in the bible makes no sense to me. One minute he is smiting people left and right for disobedience, the next his son is telling us we're cool if we repent and follow Jesus's teachings, which seem to contradict earlier teachings. One minute god is commanding people to go to war and commit genocide, the next he says thou shalt not murder. If the bible gives an accurate describtion of god and his behavior then I think god is insane. Maybe he has multiple personality disorder. That would explain a few things. One of his personalities honestly loves us and another is petty and violent.

 

[Enoughie]

I can understand your frustration, you are looking for answers and allways come out with empty hands, this mayby is what you are looking for.
Hebrews 8:7-13 but in the old testament you will find it in jeremiah 31:31-34.
. . .
What do you have to say to that

Very well! This is a step in the right direction.

Of course, the problem with the prophecy in Jeremiah 31 is that evidently it was not fulfilled yet. The proof of that is the fact that the New Testament was written down, even though the prophecy says:

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and I will write them upon their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people." (Jeremiah 31:32)

Which means that there's absolutely no need for a Bible anymore. We should all know God's laws "by heart" - literally! From birth. But is that the case? I don't think so.

Further, the proof that this prophecy was not fulfilled yet is that you're trying to demonstrate to me that it was, even though the prophecy says:

"And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, and everyone his brother, saying know the Lord, for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them." (Jeremiah 31:33)

So Jesus clearly did not fulfill this prophecy. Otherwise, Christians wouldn't need to preach or evangelize.

But they do it all the time! (apparently to demonstrate that Jeremiah's prophecy was indeed not fulfilled)

"7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
8 For finding fault with them, he says. Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant, which I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and I will write them upon their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
11 And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, and everyone his brother, saying know the Lord, for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more,
13 When he said, a new covenant, he has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear."

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[ninerbuff]

Funny when christians argue about whose right about scripture. It's no wonder that there are many denominations of christianity........but like a business the people at the top are getting the money from "workers".

 

[look3467]

Yes, if you accept what the O.T. says, then you must conclude that the N.T. can only come from a different god.>>>Enoughie

Understanding the works of God through His eyes, will give you a clear picture.

Of course, I accept neither the O.T. nor N.T. as the word of God, because if God were to dictate any of these books that would make him an imperfect and incompetent God (as I explain here: A Question of Intelligent Design)

Only because His works are not understood.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Enoughie]

Understanding the works of God through His eyes, will give you a clear picture.

Only because His works are not understood.

That's just a poor excuse, to supposedly challenge our ability to comprehend the world.

When you buy a computer from Dell, and then it turns out that the computer doesn't work, you go back and complain about it to their service department.

No one would accept the excuse that the computer only seems to not work because you don't understand the superior intelligence of Dell engineers. And that the computer actually works perfectly fine.

No one is that gullible (except for religious people, apparently).

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[look3467]

That's just a poor excuse, to supposedly challenge our ability to comprehend the world.>>>Enoughie

No, the challenge to you is in comprehending the spiritual, for the world, you seem to comprehend pretty well.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Funny when christians argue about whose right about scripture. It's no wonder that there are many denominations of christianity........but like a business the people at the top are getting the money from "workers".

The bottom line, about Christians.....is that they all have a common ground....that being the Christ....of whose name they are called.

A diversity among them is akin to much of like brothers and sister.

Not all see eye to eye, but they do have the same Father.

Blessings, AJ

 

[waitasec]

The bottom line, about Christians.....is that they all have a common ground....that being the Christ....of whose name they are called.

A diversity among them is akin to much of like brothers and sister.

Not all see eye to eye, but they do have the same Father.

Blessings, AJ

tell that to the protestants and catholics in ireland...

seriously, do you read any history books?

 

[free spirit]

Very well! This is a step in the right direction.

Of course, the problem with the prophecy in Jeremiah 31 is that evidently it was not fulfilled yet. The proof of that is the fact that the New Testament was written down, even though the prophecy says:

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and I will write them upon their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people." (Jeremiah 31:32)

Which means that there's absolutely no need for a Bible anymore. We should all know God's laws "by heart" - literally! From birth. But is that the case? I don't think so.

Further, the proof that this prophecy was not fulfilled yet is that you're trying to demonstrate to me that it was, even though the prophecy says:

"And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, and everyone his brother, saying know the Lord, for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them." (Jeremiah 31:33)

So Jesus clearly did not fulfill this prophecy. Otherwise, Christians wouldn't need to preach or evangelize.

But they do it all the time! (apparently to demonstrate that Jeremiah's prophecy was indeed not fulfilled)





_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

The writer of Hebrews thinks that the old covenant is obsolete, so I go with that.
In this age averyone knows what is sin, I do not have to tell you.
Also the governament does not teach his people the law, yet ignorance is not an excuse.
Believers evangelise for salvation and not to teach the law or to tell you what is sin, basically they preach that we should love one another, and that is not a bad thing because self interest is still at work in us.

 

[Enoughie]

The writer of Hebrews thinks that the old covenant is obsolete, so I go with that.
In this age averyone knows what is sin, I do not have to tell you.

Really? Everyone knows? Without exception? Because that's what Jeremiah 31 clearly says: "all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them."

I asked my 3-year-old nephew today, and he had absolutely no idea. So that's a proof right there that the prophecy was not fulfilled. The writer of Hebrews is wrong.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[Enoughie]

No, the challenge to you is in comprehending the spiritual, for the world, you seem to comprehend pretty well.

The world is all there is. If a "spiritual" dimension exists it is also of this world.

If it is not of this world then there's nothing to comprehend, because it doesn't exist.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[free spirit]

Really? Everyone knows? Without exception? Because that's what Jeremiah 31 clearly says: "all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them."

I asked my 3-year-old nephew today, and he had absolutely no idea. So that's a proof right there that the prophecy was not fulfilled. The writer of Hebrews is wrong.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

The law of men does not impute sin on children, nor does God. But all grown men and women of any religion knows what is right. The point is you do not have to be religious, or believe in a God. But it helps because "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." in ather words the law of God in you makes you do what is right most of the times.

 

[look3467]

tell that to the protestants and catholics in ireland...

seriously, do you read any history books?

The name Christian implies Christ like.

Because they both have the same Father does not mean they see eye to eye.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

The world is all there is. If a "spiritual" dimension exists it is also of this world.

If it is not of this world then there's nothing to comprehend, because it doesn't exist.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

Then we have a problem don't we? Its either or?

Blessings, AJ

 

[Enoughie]

The law of men does not impute sin on children, nor does God. But all grown men and women of any religion knows what is right. The point is you do not have to be religious, or believe in a God. But it helps because "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." in ather words the law of God in you makes you do what is right most of the times.

This is patently not true. Otherwise, how would you explain the fact that people can be brainwashed to do all sorts of unethical things? How can you explain the crimes of the Nazis, child-soldiers, etc.?

Also, Jeremiah 31 clearly and unambiguously says: "all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them."

It means everyone, from all ages. Everyone would know God.

My nephew had no idea what "God" is. Even after I tried to explain it to him, he didn't seem to "recognize" what I was referring to.

So there's no room for theological acrobatics here. Jeremiah's prophecy was not fulfilled.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[free spirit]

The name Christian implies Christ like.

Because they both have the same Father does not mean they see eye to eye.

Blessings, AJ

Not entirely correct, for if we have the mind of Christ as 1Corinthians 2:16 say we should see eye to eye.

 

[Enoughie]

Then we have a problem don't we? Its either or?

I don't know who's "we." I have no problem. You expect me to accept claims that are utterly unsubstantiated. But instead of producing evidence you want me to accept these entirely on faith (in other words, for no apparent reason whatsoever - literally).

And then you argue that don't "comprehend" the spirituality of these claims. If you cannot substantiate it, then there's nothing to comprehend.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma