How much does the Christian God really love us?

[Debunker]

what a substantive reply. much expected from a scriptural idolater.

Good argument. Name calling. That always works.

 

[Luminous]

Good argument. Name calling. That always works.

That is BULL. :sarcastic(mocking)
YOU ARE AN IDOLATER! I know what Idolatry is.
IT's not a name, its a characteristic...a very immoral characteristic, one which will be purified by the pain of hell.
If you want to stop worshiping idol scriptures then STOP IT.

 

[Debunker]

You continue making fallacious claims that have no foundation in reality. My philosophy has absolutely nothing to do with hedonism. If you claim that is does, demonstrate it!

You resort to making false accusations, because you cannot defend your morally bankrupt religion.

You have to stop using empty rhetoric, sophism, and fallacious assertions. Otherwise, I cannot respect you as an intellectually honest debater.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

You know what hedonism is, don't you? If you don't, Google it. Your hedonism is a natural result of humanism as your default belief from your view of no God. What I say should not be insulting to you sense you are a hedonist. I did not invent the term pig philosophy. It is a term that is used in the branch of philosophy called ethics and is demonstrative of what most rational philosophers think of your particular type of humanism is. My observance of your personal philosophy comes from the criticisms of others's deeper thinking than mine.

 

[Debunker]

What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

I can similarly say that everything that is, is evidence that there is no god. It is an equally baseless statement as yours is.

It is a shame that you rely on sophism and baseless personal attacks, to deflect criticism of your morally bankrupt religion. But that is the hypocrisy that I expect. Because you cannot defend your religion with anything other than sophism.
There is no shame here. You and I are on opposite ends of the philosophical perspective. I am skilled in ontological concepts and you are not. That is a big difference in our points of view. It is not likely that we will ever agree. But I know more about where you are coming from than you know about where I am coming. There is too much of an emotional component to your philosophy to be totally reasonable. You do base life on the pleasure factor. That is what the good is for you and this came from your own admission in your defense of homosexuality on another dumb thread you wrote. You make dumb statements and you have to defend them.

 

[Debunker]

You need to stop with your dishonest and baseless attacks. You understand very little of my philosophy, but you still make absolutely baseless assertions about it.

You need to stop lying!

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

I am only giving you an answer. It does disagree with your thinking but that is the chance we all take when we put our ideas out there on the net. People will come forward with different opinions. That is life but not good enough reason to end life. Do you ever adjust life to match reality? It works well with life adjustment. Hedonism is not a good philosophy of life IMO.

 

[Debunker]

You cannot defend the moral bankruptcy of your religion, so you twist and misrepresent my philosophy.

If you cannot be an intellectually honest debater (and you've repeatedly demonstrated that you're not) then I see no reason to respect you or your dishonest and vile attacks.

Stop Lying!

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

Vile! What on earth are you talking about? Stop lying, you are the one who misrepresent the Bible. You take that lying comment back or you will hurt my feelings. You are saying the truth the way you see it, are you not? Well, that is me too.As for respect, I can live without it. I try to speak the truth and I am caredul to point out your errors in logical discussion. That is all I do but lie, I don't need to do that.

 

[Debunker]

More empty rhetoric. No substantive argument or evidence.

Demonstrate that the biblical god is the god of the universe.

If you continue to employ empty rhetoric, sophism, or personal attacks, instead of demonstrating what you have to demonstrate, that would be the same as admitting that you cannot demonstrate the assertion that the biblical god is the god of the universe.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

I did, we all did. You already said you don't believe it so I am willing to accept that. You don't believe. My personal belief is that God does not want you on his team. You have come to the limits of His love and that is how much He loves you. The Bible teaches that God is sending you strong delusions so you would believe a lie. Maybe that is the reason you ask me to stop lying. I don't mean to lie but maybe I do not have control of what you think. So, I forgive you for saying I lie.

 

[Debunker]

That is BULL. :sarcastic(mocking)
YOU ARE AN IDOLATER! I know what Idolatry is.
IT's not a name, its a characteristic...a very immoral characteristic, one which will be purified by the pain of hell.
If you want to stop worshiping idol scriptures then STOP IT.

Are you trying to convert me?

 

[Enoughie]

What else could you say except that you use good reasoning especially sense you have been exposed as a hedonist. You use hedonism as your base for reasoning and I use the ontological argument for my base of reasoning. We are forced to opposite ends and everybody must judge for themselves who is most correct. I vote for me.

You consistently and systematically employ baseless accusations, strawman arguments, false assertions, sophistic rhetoric, condescending remarks, deceitful language, and evident lies to promote your morally bankrupt religion. You then employ the same tactics to try and discredit any reasonable argument or opposition to your religion.

All these facts make you a despicable and intellectually dishonest debater. Your mendacious tactics have been exposed and your fallacious claims have been discredited.

You are nothing but a disgusting liar and a bigot.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

 

[Enoughie]

I did, we all did. You already said you don't believe it so I am willing to accept that. You don't believe.

Evidence doesn't require belief, it only requires recognition.

You did not provide any evidence. Show me where is the evidence?! Where are the posts where you provide evidence that Jesus is the god of the universe? Baseless assertions are not evidence.

Unless you demonstrate that you provided evidence, this would be just another one of your deceitful attempts to substitute empty rhetoric for facts.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

 

[Enoughie]

You know what hedonism is, don't you? If you don't, Google it.

I know what hedonism means, it means regarding pleasure as the highest good. This term doesn't apply to me.

If this was your attempt of proving that I'm a hedonist, it failed utterly. Because I've just refuted another one of your fallacious and malicious assertions.

Your hedonism is a natural result of humanism as your default belief from your view of no God.

This is another false premise you're basing your fallacious claims on.

I don't have such a belief. I do not belief that God does not exist. This means that your claim that I'm a hedonist has been discredited and debunked!

I don't believe Jesus is the god of the universe. But that doesn't mean that I believe that the god of the universe doesn't exist. These are two different and unrelated issues. If you conflated these two together, then you're being intellectually dishonest.

I have no reason to believe that Jesus is the god of the universe, because there is no evidence to such effect. Moreover, you claimed that there is evidence, and that you've provided it, but you never did. Which means you were lying.

What I say should not be insulting to you sense you are a hedonist.

This is a baseless assertion that I already refuted.

You provided no evidence so far to support such fallacious claim.

I did not invent the term pig philosophy. It is a term that is used in the branch of philosophy called ethics and is demonstrative of what most rational philosophers think of your particular type of humanism is.

Nothing but a strawman argument. Hedonism is not my ethical position. You need to stop lying!

My observance of your personal philosophy comes from the criticisms of others's deeper thinking than mine.

Your false observation comes from the fact that you're a disgusting liar who cannot provide even one logically valid argument, or fact to support your deceitful claims.

This is nothing but a strawman argument that has been utterly discredited and debunked. You cannot defend your own baseless assertions, and you demonstrate this fact repeatedly.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

 

[astarath]

Enough to die for us.

 

[Enoughie]

I am skilled in ontological concepts and you are not.

The only things you're skilled at are sophistry and mendacity.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

 

[Enoughie]

I am only giving you an answer. It does disagree with your thinking but that is the chance we all take when we put our ideas out there on the net. People will come forward with different opinions. That is life but not good enough reason to end life. Do you ever adjust life to match reality? It works well with life adjustment. Hedonism is not a good philosophy of life IMO.

I have no problem with intellectually honest criticism of my philosophy, but that is not what you're doing.

All you're doing is erecting strawmen that have absolutely nothing to do with my philosophy, and then you demolish these strawmen. The fact that you attribute these malicious and baseless claims to my philosophy is not the same as actually criticizing it. All you're doing is utilizing sophistry and mendacity.

I don't think sophistry and mendacity are a good philosophy of life, but since you're not dead yet, I guess it works well for you.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

 

[Debunker]

Evidence doesn't require belief, it only requires recognition.

You did not provide any evidence. Show me where is the evidence?! Where are the posts where you provide evidence that Jesus is the god of the universe?

Unless you demonstrate that you provided evidence, this would be just another one of your deceitful attempts to substitute empty rhetoric for facts.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

What would you consider to be evidence?
Did you consider what I said aboute dabar?
Of course my rhetoric would be meaningless to you if you did not check it out?
Are you a hedonist and if not on what do you base your ethics?
If you do not like dabar as the God of the universe, what God is the God of the universe?
What God should we follow if we give our God up? Do you want us to follow you? What kind of love are you seeking if not our God's love?
You can not expect us to follow you if you will not tell us where you want to take us. It is your thread, tell us what you want. You step out and be the leader since you disagree with the direction we (Christians) are leading you? Until you give us a few answers, how can we accommodate you ?

 

[Enoughie]

What would you consider to be evidence?
Did you consider what I said aboute dabar?
Of course my rhetoric would be meaningless to you if you did not check it out?

What did you say? Provide a link to your post.

Are you a hedonist and if not on what do you base your ethics?

I am not a hedonist. I base my ethics on nature. The core values I derive from nature are honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom. My philosophy promotes life.

If you do not like dabar as the God of the universe, what God is the God of the universe?

Define dabar.

What God should we follow if we give our God up? Do you want us to follow you?

I don't want you to "follow" anyone. Following someone/something is a really vile virtue.

The natural philosophy of life is not about following. It is about understanding the laws of nature and the principles that govern the behavior of living beings. Once you understand these laws and principles, all you need to do is live in accord with those principles. The core principles that guide the behavior of living beings are honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom. When we don't live in accord with these principles, we become destructive to ourselves, our family, our community, our town, our nation, and our world.

You can read about all of these in my blog.

Now, the only God that could exist is the God of Nature. Not a "supernatural" God.

The God of Nature was best defined by Spinoza: "There is only one substance in the universe; it is God; and everything else that is, is in God"

Nature and its laws are perfect, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and benevolent.

I can explain exactly how Nature exhibits each of these characteristics, but let's just take perfection:

Perfect means having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics.

Nature is perfect, because nature and it's laws have all the required elements needed for the universe and nature to exist. This is self-evident. If Nature did not have all the elements required to exist it wouldn't exist.

This is also why there cannot be a supernatural God that intervenes/interferes with nature. If anything outside of nature interferes with nature, then it would no longer be perfect, it would be imperfect (it would mean that the laws of nature are insufficient in themselves - which means that they're not perfect). Since God cannot be imperfect, there cannot be a supernatural dimension that interferes with nature. Since there cannot be a supernatural dimension, that means that there cannot be hell, heaven, or afterlife. Which means that Jesus could not be the God of Nature. Jesus was giving us false hope of an afterlife.

Now, Nature doesn't require anyone to worship it. The laws of nature are not hidden from us. Nature is entirely comprehensible. All we need to do is observe it, study it, understand it, and act in accord with these laws. No following or leading.

It is in our best interests to study the laws of nature, and to live in accord with these laws. Otherwise, we're just being self destructive.

What kind of love are you seeking if not our God's love?
You can not expect us to follow you if you will not tell us where you want to take us.

I told you where I want to take you. To a better life, with more honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom. And with less self-righteousness, ignorance, hypocrisy, and intolerance.

It is your thread, tell us what you want. You step out and be the leader since you disagree with the direction we (Christians) are leading you? Until you give us a few answers, how can we accommodate you ?

I don't ask for accommodations. I ask for fair debate. A debate that is based on making logically valid arguments, and claims supported by facts. Not on sophistry, empty rhetoric, or false accusations.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and

 

[astarath]

Should I come back you guys look like you are in the middle of something

 

[Luminous]

Are you trying to convert me?

No, I was explaining to you what idolatry was.
and telling you to do what you want, its what i tell satanists and their anti-agnostic bretherin.
btw: agnosticism is not a religion, its a truth.
can you anti-agnostics stop scapegoating and actually think about things?

 

[Debunker]

No, I was explaining to you what idolatry was.
and telling you to do what you want, its what i tell satanists and their anti-agnostic bretherin.
btw: agnosticism is not a religion, its a truth.
can you anti-agnostics stop scapegoating and actually think about things?

This is a religious forum. I assume that speaks to your reason for being here. It boils down to how one defines religion. Religion and philosophy seek the truth. How do you define agnosticism to be a "truth" when agnostics doubt that one can even know the truth. I think agnosticism is universal scapegoating.

 

[Debunker]

Should I come back you guys look like you are in the middle of something

No. Jump in anytime.