How Odd Is Putin's Russia?

[Revoltingest]

Don't the Ukranians want peace? Talk. No! Carry on. Does not affect me.

It appears that they want peace, but not the
kind that means surrendering to Russian goons.
Ukrainians are simply defending their own country
from within their own country. Putin is the one
attacking by invading. So he's the culpable one.
Don't blame Ukraine for being invaded by thugs.

You never know how such a volatile situation
might ultimately affect you.

 

[Revoltingest]

We tried to change their government, but that wasn't the original reason for going over there.

Is no one else on RF aware that we actually did try
to create a stable more liberal & secular government
there? And that is why we stayed?

 

[Aupmanyav]

It appears that they want peace, but not the kind that means surrendering to Russian goons. Ukrainians are simply defending their own country from within their own country. Putin is the one attacking by invading. So he's the culpable one. Don't blame Ukraine for being invaded by thugs.
You never know how such a volatile situation might ultimately affect you.

There must have been a reason why Russia attacked Ukraine. I do not blame Ukraine alone, others too are involved.
You are correct. The war is affecting us. In the last 20 days, the price of gas/petrol has gone up nearly every day and that affects the price of other things too.

 

[Revoltingest]

There must have been a reason why Russia attacked Ukraine. I do not blame Ukraine alone, others too are involved.
You are correct. The war is affecting us. In the last 20 days, the price of gas/petrol has gone up nearly every day and that affects the price of other things too.

Many countries are involved. But only Russia
bears responsibility for its unilateral choice to
invade & destroy Ukraine. Don't blame the victim.

And things could get worse if the war escalates
& spreads.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Many countries are involved.

If many are involved then why blame Russia only? I don't get any Russian money, don't accuse me of being a Russian lackey.

 

[Revoltingest]

If many are involved then why blame Russia only?

Russia is the only country that attacked Ukraine.
It was Russia's (Putin's) decision.
No one else's.
Ukraine, neighbors, & NATO posed no threat to
Russia. So it was not self defense. It was just a
territory & resource grab to expand the empire.

I don't get any Russian money, don't accuse me of being a Russian lackey.

I don't know your reasons for defending Russia's
invasion of Ukraine. Nonetheless, there it is.

 

[Stevicus]

I don't know your reasons for defending Russia's
invasion of Ukraine. Nonetheless, there it is.

You keep accusing people of defending Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but your accusations are analogous to accusing everyone who supports anti-communism as supporting the Nazi atrocities (since they were anti-communist too).

Maybe you might consider stopping your cheesy guilt-by-association tactics, lest they be used against you.

 

[Revoltingest]

You keep accusing people of defending Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but your accusations are tantamount to....

When posters address Russia's invasion of Ukraine
by deflecting to criticism of Hillary, Obama, Biden, etc
this is obvious whataboutism. What reason would
there be to refuse acknowledging Russia's unjustified
massive destruction other than Putin apologetics?

Call a spade a spade. And in this case, it's artful
defense of Putin & Russia by criticizing everyone
else involved.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I don't know your reasons for defending Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Nonetheless, there it is.

My grouse is against hegemony (from any direction, West, East or North). As simple as that.

 

[Revoltingest]

My grouse is against hegemony (from any direction, West, East or North). As simple as that.

Is all hegemony equal?
Ukraine joining NATO = Russia's invading & destroying Ukraine

 

[Stevicus]

When posters address Russia's invasion of Ukraine
by deflecting to criticism of Hillary, Obama, Biden, etc
this is obvious whataboutism. What reason would
there be to refuse acknowledging Russia's unjustified
massive destruction other than Putin apologetics?

Call a spade a spade. And in this case, it's artful
defense of Putin & Russia by criticizing everyone
else involved.

The lame counter of "whataboutism" is a disingenuous contrivance and has no validity. Just like the "love it or leave it" and "those who are not with us are against us" arguments, it's a crock of BS. It's been thoroughly discredited. You know it, I know it, so why do you keep using it?

Let me restate this: We do not have the right to judge, as we have engaged in the same activities we are accusing "the other" of. To presume to judge another nation for sins that we ourselves have committed is commonly referred to as "hypocrisy," and hypocrisy is considered by most people to be morally wrong. Were you not aware of this, or shall I keep repeating it until it starts to sink in?

 

[Stevicus]

My grouse is against hegemony (from any direction, West, East or North). As simple as that.

What about from the South? I heard those penguins from Antarctica have their eyes on India, and they're coming to get you!

 

[Revoltingest]

The lame counter of "whataboutism" is a disingenuous contrivance...

The "disingenuous" act is to immediately respond to threads
about Russia with whataboutism, making someone else the
villain in Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
It's a clever way of supporting Russia....in addition to saying
Russia is justified to invade Ukraine in self defense, we also
see artfully shifting blame away from Russia, eg, "it's Ok cuz
USA invaded Afghanistan" or "look what Hillary did in Libya".

 

[wellwisher]

The motivation by Putin has a connection to the Cold Wars Days. After WWII ended, Russia and the Western Allies divided Europe into the East and West, with the Eastern European countries becoming satellites of Russia; Soviet Union. This expansion by Russia, was due to the extreme losses they suffered in WWII, due to the attack by Germany. Russia lost over 25,000,000 people.They vowed never to be unprepared again. They needed and created a buffer zone.

Beginning with Reagan and then Bush #1, the Soviet Union began to decline, as the new technology expanded, and as the many countries in the Soviet Block wanted their independence. This led to the Soviet Union being trimmed down to just Russia. It was now naked and afraid.

There were still many old WWII Russians who were paranoid of this decline; their version of the swamp. They needed reassurances, such as NATO not expanding into their former buffer zone. They got this from Bill Clinton and others, but in the end, this was not carved into stone.

This all changed when Ukraine wanted to be part of NATO. This would have allowed NATO to practice military exercises right at the Russian border. This thought created a lot of internal pressure and paranoia. Putin had to act or risk alienating the Russian swamp. He took over Crimea, as a practice expansion. Obama did not resist, so the next move was planned.

Putin prefers to invade when Democrats control the US government, since they have been allies since the Cold War years. Both liked the idea of socialism; United Soviet Socialist Republic; USSR and US socialism and Big Government.

Biden, who has age related mental problems, provided the perfect cover for the Ukraine invasion. Putin took Crimea under Obama and Biden, with nothing done to him, while allowing him to keep Crimea. He did not invade under Trump. Trump was more like an oligarch cowboy and was not easy to take advantage of. Biden provided a unique opportunity; push over with a history of allowing the expansion.

My guess is if the Republican take over the House and Senate, and Biden becomes more moderate again; former Biden, Putin will try to save face and start peace talks. If the Democrats can steal the election, Putin may decide to expand into the former other satellite countries. Biden will not act, due to not having all his senses, to plan a proper countering move. Biden is also under the control of the extreme left, which has socialism plans. Putin may need to help the Democrats win the midterms or he may have to backtrack and delay again.

Biden should offer Putin reassurance that NATO will not enter former Soviet Satellite countries, but will stay contained, if Putin gets out of Ukraine. This may save face and end the war, while also helping with Russia politics deal with the paranoia of another WWII scale invasion, with no buffer.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What about from the South? I heard those penguins from Antarctica have their eyes on India, and they're coming to get you!

India is likely to get hotter with change of climate. They are welcome (we never said no to anyone), but IMV, they will be happier where they are.

 

[Stevicus]

The "disingenuous" act is to immediately respond to threads
about Russia with whataboutism, making someone else the
villain in Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

I would say that it's disingenuous to try to control the discussion and insist that it maintain the same single track without looking at other causes and effects which might have led to this event.

I don't know about you, but I think it's a worthwhile discussion to look at the various causes and effects of what brought us to this point, as opposed to yet another thread lampooning Putin - which I don't really have a problem with. It's just very one-dimensional, superficial, and supercilious. If you need to have your two-minute hate for Putin, then I'm not stopping you. But after the two minutes are up, then can't we get back to more rational discussion?

It's just a thought.

It's a clever way of supporting Russia....in addition to saying
Russia is justified to invade Ukraine in self defense, we also
see artfully shifting blame away from Russia, eg, "it's Ok cuz
USA invaded Afghanistan" or "look what Hillary did in Libya".

When you say that others are "supporting Russia" or "saying Russia is justified," these are just your erroneous and illogical projections, based on willful misinterpretation of what some people are actually saying. At that point, the discussion is no longer about Putin or Ukraine or anything about the US government, but just about some anonymous individual on the internet you wish to blacken and impugn as some kind of "Putin sympathizer," when such may not be the case at all.

 

[Revoltingest]

I would say that it's disingenuous to try to control the discussion

I'd say it's disingenuous to try to deflect the discussion
to become about other countries. To deny Russia's
sole responsibility for invasion & destruction is naught
but Putin apologetics.
Posters who want to criticize USA & NATO could start
their own threads. But no, they always come into threads
about the invasion, & pull their whataboutism tactic.

 

[Stevicus]

I'd say it's disingenuous to try to deflect the discussion
to become about other countries. To deny Russia's
sole responsibility for invasion & destruction is naught
but Putin apologetics.

That's your perception.

Posters who want to criticize USA & NATO could start
their own threads. But no, they always come into threads
about the invasion, & pull their whataboutism tactic.

I thought this thread was about Darth Putin. It's a thread about the Dark Side, so the topic is the Dark Side, is it not? The Dark Side has many facets to it.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's your perception.

That is merely your perception of my perception.

I thought this thread was about Darth Putin. .

It was about the oddity of the pomp & circumstance
of Putin's parading thru that palace. But by post #3
it was about Biden, & from there expanding on all
the sins of every leader & country but Putin & Russia.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

If many are involved then why blame Russia only? I don't get any Russian money, don't accuse me of being a Russian lackey.

Because if Putin had not invaded there would be nothing to discuss.
Why do you defend Russia.