How Odd Is Putin's Russia?

[Aupmanyav]

Why do you defend Russia.

I don't. I am from a developing country which was under colonial rule. I believe that one country should try to dominate others. NATO is a domination tool that is why I do not like it.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't. I am from a developing country which was under colonial rule. I believe that one country should try to dominate others. NATO is a domination tool that is why I do not like it.

The problem here is that Russia (Putin) is the one
doing the dominating. Yet you criticize NATO.
Which country has NATO conquered to add to
its empire?
If NATO were really the problem, we'd see threads
devoted to that. But we don't. Anti-NATO sentiment
only crops in response to criticism of Putin's Russia
invading Ukraine. This is textbook whataboutism.

 

[Stevicus]

That is merely your perception of my perception.

That's your perception of my perception of your perception.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's your perception of my perception of your perception.

So you say.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The problem here is that .. This is textbook whataboutism.

"Since its founding, the admission of new member states has increased the alliance from the original 12 countries to 30. The most recent member state to be added to NATO was North Macedonia on 27 March 2020. NATO currently recognizes Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, and Ukraine as aspiring members. Enlargement has led to tensions with non-member Russia, which has demanded that NATO provide legal guarantees that it would stop expanding east (to countries such as Ukraine, Georgia, or Moldova)."
NATO - Wikipedia (You may also want to go through the Wiki article)
Just like the NATO countries are fearful about their security, there are countries that are fearful of their security because of NATO, militarily or economically. It is not super-science to understand Russia's motivation. China's OROB also is a similar project.

 

[Revoltingest]

"Since its founding, the admission of new member states has increased the alliance from the original 12 countries to 30. The most recent member state to be added to NATO was North Macedonia on 27 March 2020. NATO currently recognizes Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, and Ukraine as aspiring members. Enlargement has led to tensions with non-member Russia, which has demanded that NATO provide legal guarantees that it would stop expanding east (to countries such as Ukraine, Georgia, or Moldova)."
NATO - Wikipedia (You may also want to go through the Wiki article)
Just like the NATO countries are fearful about their security, there are countries that are fearful of their security because of NATO, militarily or economically. It is not super-science to understand Russia's motivation. China's OROB also is a similar project.

NATO was formed to defend against the Soviets/Russia.
Of course Putin & Russia don't want it to expand. That
would interfere with conquering former Soviet satellites.
You might not object to Russia & China expanding into
other countries, but those subjugated just might resist.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Of course Putin & Russia don't want it to expand.
You might not object to Russia & China expanding into other countries, but those subjugated just might resist.

That Russia wanted to expand is a presumption.
No, India would not like Russia and China to expand. They already have enough.

 

[Revoltingest]

That Russia wanted to expand is a presumption.
No, India would not like Russia and China to expand. They already have enough.

Tis no mere "presumption" when Russia's record is
one of invasion & conquering. And plans for more
appear to be in the works....
Belarus dictator Alexander Lukashenko appeared to show Russian plans to invade Moldova through Ukraine

Both Putin & China want more territory.
India might not be able to remain neutral & tolerant
of other countries being invaded if sights are set
upon India's land in the north.

And now Putin threatens nuclear warfare....
Chilling moment fearsome Russian nuclear bomber flies close to Ukraine border

 

[Stevicus]

NATO was formed to defend against the Soviets/Russia.

NATO was formed because the U.S. believed that they needed to defend against the Soviets, while the Soviets formed the Warsaw Pact because they believed that they needed to defend against the U.S. and its allies. The US formed a ring of alliances to encircle the Soviet Union, not just with NATO, but also CENTO, SEATO, and bases in Japan and South Korea. All of this was justified through fears of communist expansionism, working in concert with other US-sponsored anti-communist activities throughout the world.

Overall, I think public opinion (both US and global opinion) has been relatively mixed, at least in terms of believing many of the early justifications and paranoid fears associated with the various Red Scares we've had. I don't think as many people believe that the Soviet Union was really that much of a threat, at least not as much as people believed during the McCarthy era.

By the time of the Vietnam War, it was clear that a significant percentage of the public had had enough of the US government's paranoia about communism. It wasn't that very many people supported communism, but they clearly believed that the US leadership was grossly exaggerating the supposed "threat" they posed and saw that it was being used as a pretext for justifying all kinds of questionable activities by our military and intelligence agencies.

The questions which historians will probably continue to ask might be: Was it really necessary? Was the formation of NATO a necessary act? Was the belief in the need to defend against the Soviets and/or Russia truly justified?

Did the formation of NATO against this supposed threat become a self-fulfilling prophecy? That is, by forming an alliance against the perceived threat, is it logical to presume that the target of that alliance might itself feel threatened, even if they didn't yet pose or intend any significant threat? Would that then create a "threat" to justify NATO's existence when there had not been any such threat previously?

 

[Revoltingest]

NATO was formed because the U.S. believed that they needed to defend against the Soviets, while the Soviets formed the Warsaw Pact because they believed that they needed to defend against the U.S. and its allies. The US formed a ring of alliances to encircle the Soviet Union, not just with NATO, but also CENTO, SEATO, and bases in Japan and South Korea. All of this was justified through fears of communist expansionism, working in concert with other US-sponsored anti-communist activities throughout the world.

Overall, I think public opinion (both US and global opinion) has been relatively mixed, at least in terms of believing many of the early justifications and paranoid fears associated with the various Red Scares we've had. I don't think as many people believe that the Soviet Union was really that much of a threat, at least not as much as people believed during the McCarthy era.

By the time of the Vietnam War, it was clear that a significant percentage of the public had had enough of the US government's paranoia about communism. It wasn't that very many people supported communism, but they clearly believed that the US leadership was grossly exaggerating the supposed "threat" they posed and saw that it was being used as a pretext for justifying all kinds of questionable activities by our military and intelligence agencies.

The questions which historians will probably continue to ask might be: Was it really necessary? Was the formation of NATO a necessary act? Was the belief in the need to defend against the Soviets and/or Russia truly justified?

Did the formation of NATO against this supposed threat become a self-fulfilling prophecy? That is, by forming an alliance against the perceived threat, is it logical to presume that the target of that alliance might itself feel threatened, even if they didn't yet pose or intend any significant threat? Would that then create a "threat" to justify NATO's existence when there had not been any such threat previously?

Russia did have a record showing it to be a threat to
its neighbors....
- Conspiring with Hitler to carve up Europe.
- Invading Finland. (The invasion failed.)
- Post-Soviet invasions we've been discussing.

NATO had no record of ever invading Russia.
NATO posed no existential threat to Russia.
Putin's using NATO expansion as justification
to invade Ukraine does not make it legitimate.

 

[lukethethird]

Russia did have a record showing it to be a threat to
its neighbors....
- Conspiring with Hitler to carve up Europe.
- Invading Finland. (The invasion failed.)
- Post-Soviet invasions we've been discussing.

NATO had no record of ever invading Russia.
NATO posed no existential threat to Russia.
Putin's using NATO expansion as justification
to invade Ukraine does not make it legitimate.

US and it's NATO allies are proving to be the greatest threat to world peace. They baited Putin and he fell for their trap and now US and NATO is doing everything to escalate the problem. The west suffers from Russiaphobia and the world is now held hostage by it.

 

[Revoltingest]

US and it's NATO allies are proving to be the greatest threat to world peace. They baited Putin and he fell for their trap and now US and NATO is doing everything to escalate the problem. The west suffers from Russiaphobia and the world is now held hostage by it.

It's like the pretty gal in the tight red dress who
causes a thug to rape her....it's all her fault.
Poor innocent Putin, eh.
Have you ever considered Russia's west-o-phobia,
& their desire to conquer their neighbors? Nah.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Both Putin & China want more territory.
India might not be able to remain neutral & tolerant of other countries being invaded if sights are set upon India's land in the north.

I do not think Russia wants more territory.
We will deal with it as the case requires.
We will deal with it when and if it comes to us. We are confident that we can manage.

 

[Revoltingest]

I do not think Russia wants more territory.

Current events strongly suggest otherwise.

We will deal with it as the case requires.
We will deal with it when and if it comes to us. We are confident that we can manage.

If India doesn't stand up for other victims of violent
conquest, India just might find itself rather alone.

 

[Wildswanderer]

There's nothing particularly odd about it, it's just fallen man craving power the same as it's always been.
Men aren't naturally good,...that's a modern myth.

 

[lukethethird]

It's like the pretty gal in the tight red dress who
causes a thug to rape her....it's all her fault.
Poor innocent Putin, eh.
Have you ever considered Russia's west-o-phobia,
& their desire to conquer their neighbors? Nah.

Putin is dealing with a problem on its own border, Russia was never a threat to the US, ever, unless you are a McCarthyite and feared communism.

 

[lukethethird]

Current events strongly suggest otherwise.

If India doesn't stand up for other victims of violent
conquest, India just might find itself rather alone.

So Inda should have stood up for Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Chile, Iran, and all the other too numerous to name victims of violence set upon them by the US?

 

[Revoltingest]

Putin is dealing with a problem on its own border, Russia was never a threat to the US, ever, unless you are a McCarthyite and feared communism.

It appears that you're unaware of several near accidental
launches of nuclear weapons against USA.
One of several...
1983 Soviet nuclear false alarm incident - Wikipedia
Perhaps you hate capitalism, are a commie, & side with Putin?

 

[Revoltingest]

So Inda should have stood up for Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Chile, Iran, and all the other too numerous to name victims of violence set upon them by the US?

More whataboutism to defends Putin's invasion of Ukraine, eh.
You guys will say anything to defend all the death & destruction
in Ukraine as Russia tries to expand its empire.

 

[lukethethird]

More whataboutism to defends Putin's invasion of Ukraine, eh.
You guys will say anything to defend all the death & destruction
in Ukraine as Russia tries to expand its empire.

The US has been invading countries all my life, this time it's Russia. Supporters of these violent invasions are wingnuts no matter what side they are on.