How Odd Is Putin's Russia?

[Kathryn]

Yes. All of a sudden Ukraine wants to join NATO.

 

[Revoltingest]

NATO's quest to encircle Russia brought about the Russo-Ukranian war. There may be more in future if anyone tries to be one-up.

Russia doesn't even have any contiguous neighbors for thousands of miles (oceans).
And many neighbors aren't in NATO, eg, Mongolia, China, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Azerbaijan.
Encircled? Nah.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Perhaps you see everyone that opposes US and Nato aggression as supporters of communism and Putin?

What "nato aggression"?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Perhaps it might have something to do with some large country in their proximity which they perceive as a major threat to their sovereignty for which they seek protection from a defensive alliance like NATO?

And that lands them into greater problems.

 

[Aupmanyav]

If France wanted it peace, it should not have fought back against Nazi Germany either?

I do not think Vlad is an avatara of Adolph. Vlad has different concerns.

 

[Aupmanyav]

And many neighbors aren't in NATO, eg, Mongolia, China, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Azerbaijan.
Encircled? Nah.

Russia is worried about its Western border.
Good for them, though some are members of the Collective Security Treaty Organization, Eurasian Economic Community and Shanghai Coorporation Orgnization. All that has Russia's blessings. However, joining NATO may put them at odds with Russia.

 

[Aupmanyav]

NATO didn't encircle Russia.
The surrounding nations requested to join NATO because of Russian aggression.

You are not looking at it with Putin's spectacles.

 

[The Hammer]

You are not looking at it with Putin's spectacles.

I'm not sure it's a perspective I can see from. Nor is it one I've specifically looked at but I understand the point you are trying to make.

 

[Revoltingest]

Russia is worried about its Western border.

Actually, Russia says it's worried about the western border.
We don't know if that's true or a ruse for public consumption.
However, it would be absurd for Russia to believe that
Ukraine posed a threat of invading Russia.
Russia has a small population relative to other big countries.
A/nd it's declining. Yet despite having more land by far
than any other, it needs more? This is naught but avarice.

Good for them, though some are members of the Collective Security Treaty Organization, Eurasian Economic Community and Shanghai Coorporation Orgnization. All that has Russia's blessings. However, joining NATO may put them at odds with Russia.

I've not heard of any plans for them to join.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

And that lands them into greater problems.

Does it?

It looks like the opposite is true.
I don't remember Russia ever attacking a NATO country.
I do remember them invading and bombing to the ground countries that aren't members of this alliance.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I do not think Vlad is an avatara of Adolph. Vlad has different concerns.

Obviously.

But the facts remain the same.
Country A is invaded by country B that tries to conquer it.

Why should A bend over backwards and let have B have its way while it destroys A and rapes its citizens?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Russia is worried about its Western border.

So it says. In reality, nothing is threatening that border.
What really seems to be going on, is Russia having a desire to push its western border further to the west and lying about it.

However, joining NATO may put them at odds with Russia.

Like I explained elsewhere, the only people who would have problems with someone joining a defensive alliance, are those who want to have the freedom to bully and attack that someone without pushback.

To put it in schoolyard terms....
If my classmates would form an alliance saying that anyone who tries to take a member's lunch-money, will be considered to have picked a fight with all the members, I would not be bother at all, unless I plant to, or want to be able to, steal someone's lunch-money..............................

If stealing someone's lunch-money is not an interest of mine, then why would I be bothered by such an alliance at all?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You are not looking at it with Putin's spectacles.

Ow, I am.

All I need to do is look at it as a bully who doesn't want pushback or accountability.
And then it makes total sense that it bothers me that my targets, or potential targets, join a defensive alliance.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Actually, Russia says it's worried about the western border.

It absolutely is worried about the western border.
Worried, in the sense that it if the countries at the other side of that border join NATO, Russia will no longer be able to push that border further west without pushback.

It is worried that its tanks and soldiers will no longer be able to cross that border whenever they feel like it.

 

[Revoltingest]

It absolutely is worried about the western border.

It's useful for Russia to say this.
But how do you know they believe it?

Worried, in the sense that it if the countries at the other side of that border join NATO, Russia will no longer be able to push that border further west without pushback.

It is worried that its tanks and soldiers will no longer be able to cross that border whenever they feel like it.

True dat.

 

[Stevicus]

It's useful for Russia to say this.
But how do you know they believe it?

Their historical past experience would suggest that their concerns for their western borders are well-founded and go back for centuries.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Their historical past experience would suggest that their concerns for their western borders are well-founded and go back for centuries.

They will always have a western border, unless they move in and conquer Europe entirely so that their western border is in fact the atlantic ocean.

Having said that, there is absolutely zero reason to be worried about bordering a defensive alliance. Unless you want the freedom to attack neighbors without pushback from others.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I've not heard of any plans for them to join.

They are wiser (than Ukraine).

Why should A bend over backwards and let have B have its way while it destroys A and rapes its citizens?

Don't bend, but start talking about bringing an end to war. The other option is to continue to fight.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Like I explained elsewhere, the only people who would have problems with someone joining a defensive alliance, are those who want to have the freedom to bully and attack that someone without pushback.

I do not know if NATO is a defensive alliance or a attacking alliance. So Ukraine should fight till Russia accepts defeat and retreats from the areas that it has occupied. I don't know if they will ever do it.
And till that time West will give it ever more deadly weapons. Do they want Russia to use nuclear arms in Ukraine?
I think that will delight Ukraine's supporters. Then they would cry and try that the whole world ostracizes Russia. Is that the plan?
It is as nice plan. Only Ukraine will be the looser, which hardly matters. Ukraine is fighting a war for West against Russia.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I do not know if NATO is a defensive alliance or a attacking alliance.

Perhaps read the treaty. Then you'll know.
The only obligation members have towards eachother is to come to eachother's aid when they are under attack by a foreign power.

It is purely defensive in nature.

So Ukraine should fight till Russia accepts defeat. I don't know if they will ever do it.

That's up to Ukraine to decide. And their decision for now clearly is to resist the foreign aggressor and they are begging the world for aide in doing so.