How on earth can the Qur'an be considered the perfect book?

[use_your_brain]

You seriously don't know about the numerous Muslims who say the Quran is the perfect book, which is the reason it can't be modified or changed. Sorry you're just plain ignorant. Ask most Muslims if they think the Quran has flaws and they will say it has none.

Are you saying the Quran is tragically flawed and thus not the word of God? Because how could the word of God be flawed?

No matter it is a perfect or imperfect book or as you said you are boring on it, it still a word of God.
That's why you have to define what perfect is first, because some Muslims as you claim think Quran is perfect while you think it isn't.
If you thought Quran was imperfect because it was a boring book then it is not perfect. very simple.

 

[use_your_brain]

Not it wasn't authored by God. It was authored by several human beings. At most you could say inspired by God and is filled to the brim with the morality and understanding of primitive bronze age peasants. And saying G-d is more insulting to God presumably because you're saying that he gets so butthurt and has such a massive ego that you can even type his name without offending him. Truly insulting to anyone of sentience.

And why is Muhammad special? he was a warlord and a pedophile according to every definition. What kind of morality is that?

who was the author of Quran according to you?

 

[serp777]

Wow! Who are you? Were you there at the time? Perhaps you are the creator of the universe..

No .. just another 'challenger'

Here's an analogy to what you're saying: so criminals can't be convicted if no one was there to witness the crime even if there's genetic evidence, video recording, finger prints, etc? I mean is your argument seriously that you need to be there in order to demonstrate something? Physicists are just like the detectives who gather evidence and make conclusions about things that happen in the past. Also great argument--im just another challenger? Is the first person who challenged something have more credibility than the 100,000th? No that argument makes no sense. basically your post is just a red herring and a total misunderstanding of the scientific method. Perhaps you understand nothing about science.

 

[serp777]

No matter it is a perfect or imperfect book or as you said you are boring on it, it still a word of God.
That's why you have to define what perfect is first, because some Muslims as you claim think Quran is perfect while you think it isn't.
If you thought Quran was imperfect because it was a boring book then it is not perfect. very simple.

i don't have to define what perfect is since its many Muslims who claim the Quran is the perfect book, not I. They should be the ones defining what they mean by perfect.

But ill show you the definition I use for perfect--the dictionary definition

"having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be."

is the Quran really as good as it is possible to be if it bores many people, is unpersuasive to millions of humans, and contains a number of contradictions? Not by any conception of what perfect in general is.

Furthermore, Its not the word of God, at best it was inspired by God; i mean are you seriously suggesting that God got a pen and paper and jotted down the quran? Or are you saying God mind controlled someone and got them to write the story for him in his place? i mean come on.

Just google "the quran is perfect" and you will see numerous Muslims who subscribe to the claim that the quran is perfect and has no contradictions.
http://www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/fully_detailed_scripture_(P1210).html

Also to address authorship, look at this source:
"According to the traditional narrative, several companions of Muhammad served as scribes and were responsible for writing down the revelations.[11"



Donner, Fred, "The historical context" in McAuliffe, J. D. (ed.), The Cambridge Companion to the Qur'ān (Cambridge University Press, 2006), p. 31–33.

 

[use_your_brain]

i don't have to define what perfect is since its many Muslims who claim the Quran is the perfect book, not I. They should be the ones defining what they mean by perfect.

But ill show you the definition I use for perfect--the dictionary definition

"having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be."

is the Quran really as good as it is possible to be if it bores many people, is unpersuasive to millions of humans, and contains a number of contradictions? Not by any conception of what perfect in general is.

Furthermore, Its not the word of God, at best it was inspired by God; i mean are you seriously suggesting that God got a pen and paper and jotted down the quran? Or are you saying God mind controlled someone and got them to write the story for him in his place? i mean come on.

Just google "the quran is perfect" and you will see numerous Muslims who subscribe to the claim that the quran is perfect and has no contradictions.
http://www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/fully_detailed_scripture_(P1210).html

Also to address authorship, look at this source:
"According to the traditional narrative, several companions of Muhammad served as scribes and were responsible for writing down the revelations.[11"



Donner, Fred, "The historical context" in McAuliffe, J. D. (ed.), The Cambridge Companion to the Qur'ān (Cambridge University Press, 2006), p. 31–33.

How can you come to the claim that it is not the word of God? What did God say about the alleged perfect book?
Indeed the companions wrote down the Quran, who else?

 

[LuisDantas]

How can you come to the claim that it is not the word of God? What did God say about the alleged perfect book?
Indeed the companions wrote down the Quran, who else?

Why would anyone need any particular reason or permission to claim that it is not the word of God?

 

[use_your_brain]

Why would anyone need any particular reason or permission to claim that it is not the word of God?

At least one has to verify his statement instead of proposing a hypothesis. Since God belongs to any strict attributions that sometimes they are different with humane characters..

 

[LuisDantas]

At least one has to verify his statement instead of proposing a hypothesis.

No, we actually do not have to do that.

It is perhaps a good idea to do that. But we do not have to.

 

[use_your_brain]

No, we actually do not have to do that.

It is perhaps a good idea to do that. But we do not have to.

then everyone is free in creating the character of the alleged God. So, how could he blame the muslim faith yet muslims believe in their own belief about book of God? Regardless it is perfect or not.

According to the user, the Book of God must be perfect. Who said so? it is his personal idea, right?

 

[LuisDantas]

then everyone is free in creating the character of the alleged God.

Very much so. Everyone is indeed free to create as many Gods as they want, with whatever attributes they want to.

Whether anyone else would believe in those Gods is another matter entirely, of course.

So, how could he blame the muslim faith yet muslims believe in their own belief about book of God? Regardless it is perfect or not.

I am not sure of what you mean here. You are of course free to believe in your God however you want to.

Just don't expect anyone to feel the need to share your belief.

 

[use_your_brain]

Very much so. Everyone is indeed free to create as many Gods as they want, with whatever attributes they want to.

Whether anyone else would believe in those Gods is another matter entirely, of course.




I am not sure of what you mean here. You are of course free to believe in your God however you want to.

Just don't expect anyone to feel the need to share your belief.

Exactly, just like the Hindu believe the Cows are the incarnate God.
the user accuses muslim belief is wrong, because their book is not perfect.
who said the religious holybook must be perfect? the answer is: it is his personal idea per se. thus the conversation is over.

 

[LuisDantas]

Exactly, just like the Hindu believe the Cows are the incarnate God.
the user accuses muslim belief is wrong, because their book is not perfect.

Is that even an accusation at all? I don't think so.

He is just expressing his disbelief and asking how come there are those who believe in the perfection of that book.

who said the religious holybook must be perfect? the answer is: it is his personal idea per se. thus the conversation is over.

Uh? I thought the Qur'an was declared perfect by most or nearly all Muslims, even in this very thread?

 

[use_your_brain]

Is that even an accusation at all? I don't think so.

He is just expressing his disbelief and asking how come there are those who believe in the perfection of that book.




Uh? I thought the Qur'an was declared perfect by most or nearly all Muslims, even in this very thread?

He said the Quran is boring, so it is not a perfect book.
But, Muslims think it is perfect. In this case muslims perhaps are wrong in considering the Quran is perfect, because the Quran is boring according to the user.
In my point of view, Quran can be either perfect or imperfect depend on ones criteria.
Ok then, if it were not a perfect book, so what?
Oh the God book must be perfect, must be not boring for instance, but who said so? the user.

 

[LuisDantas]

That is true. But where is the accusation you speak of?

 

[use_your_brain]

That is true. But where is the accusation you speak of?

maybe i am wrong by accusing him he accused muslim belief is wrong.

 

[LuisDantas]

Of course he find Muslim beliefs wrong. He would most likely be a Muslim if he did not, wouldn't he?

 

[use_your_brain]

Of course he find Muslim beliefs wrong. He would most likely be a Muslim if he did not, wouldn't he?

just because believing in the perfection of Quran is the wrong belief doesn't mean Islam is not worthy to be believed. Muslims can be wrong in some cases, but not the Quran.

 

[LuisDantas]

just because believing in the perfection of Quran is the wrong belief doesn't mean Islam is not worthy to be believed.

Perhaps not. But it sure seems to go a very long way towards that conclusion.

By any reasonable measure, the Qur'an is quite central to Islam.

Muslims can be wrong in some case, but not the Quran.

... so the Qur'an is perfect after all?

 

[use_your_brain]

Perhaps not. But it sure seems to go a very long way towards that conclusion.

By any reasonable measure, the Qur'an is quite central to Islam.




... so the Qur'an is perfect after all?

The conversation bud always directs to the VERIFICATION of the QURAN. Quran is the central, indeed. Is it perfect or not? I have no idea, what do you think?

 

[LuisDantas]

I find no reason to even have any doubts. The Qur'an is not perfect in any sense.

I am a bit puzzled by this. What do you mean here?

Muslims can be wrong in some case, but not the Quran.