How on earth can the Qur'an be considered the perfect book?

[use_your_brain]

I find no reason to even have any doubts. The Qur'an is not perfect in any sense.

I am a bit puzzled by this. What do you mean here?

Is perfection status important in verifying the Quran truth/its divinity status?
Muslims can be wrong in some cases, but it is not right to say/accuse the Quran is wrong.

 

[LuisDantas]

Is perfection status important in verifying the Quran truth/its divinity status?

We should divide that question into its component parts, I think.

1. Is the Qur'an in some sense perfect?
2. Is the Qur'an true? If so, in which senses and with which consequences?
3. How divinely inspired is the Qur'an, and how does that level of divine inspiration relate to its truth and its perfection?

My answers are:

1. It may be perfectly correct in a grammatical or even artistic sense, I suppose. It is certainly very imperfect in the religious and theological senses.
2. Its doctrine is demonstrably wrong, as any atheist may tell you.
3. Not at all, it seems to me. Not divinely and, frankly, not much inspired at all.

I would expect a true divinely inspired book to be drammatic in its effects. To bring lasting, readily perceptible wisdom on whoever read it in full.

Muslims can be wrong in some cases, but it is not right to say/accuse the Quran is wrong.

But it is wrong.

 

[serp777]

How can you come to the claim that it is not the word of God? What did God say about the alleged perfect book?
Indeed the companions wrote down the Quran, who else?

Because humans admittedly wrote it. At most you can say it was inspired by God like I said. We don't actually know what God did or didn't say. You keep pre supposing that your beliefs are correct; how can you claim it is the word of God? because it says its the word of God? I mean cmon.

 

[use_your_brain]

Because humans admittedly wrote it. At most you can say it was inspired by God like I said. We don't actually know what God did or didn't say. You keep pre supposing that your beliefs are correct; how can you claim it is the word of God? because it says its the word of God? I mean cmon.

of course the humans wrote the book. who else? robot?
So you don't know what the God said? then how could you try to represent what the God wants considering to the book?
my belief is correct, if not then I wouldn't believe in it.
we do believe the Quran is the word of God because it is what our religion teaches.

 

[FearGod]

Gaseous state of the universe? What are you talking about? Most of the matter in the universe behaves like a plasma since that's what suns are composed out of. Actually most of the matter is dark matter which behaves more like a super fluid that doesn't react with light. And most of the universe itself is composed out of space time which doesnt resemble smoke at all. Way less than 1% of things in the universe are in a gaseous state.

I mean you can't use quotes from the Quran to show that it is a heavenly message. next thing you're going to tell me about the "prophecies" of the Quran where they say there will be mockers and doubters; a regurgitation of the doubting Thomas. Its like using quotes from the scientology manifesto to prove the validity that the scientology manifesto is holy. You have no reason to believe the Quran is a heavenly message.

It's still called smoke regardless of its contents.

 

[DawudTalut]

Hi, DawudTalut.

A clarification please:

Peace be on you.
By the grace of God, all Muslims believe Holy Quran is Unique Book which is not only preserved but provides perfect teaching in all era, and it is in full agreement of proven science - especially evolution [guided evolution + creation].

These could be only those people who under the influence of their non-practicing-their-own-religions-friends may think so.

There seems to be a contradiction here. You are confirming that the Quran provides perfect teaching for all era, yet then you disapprove of an identical claim?I assume there was some confusion at some point.

Peace be on you....
All I meant that all Muslims believe about perfection of Quran, but when they fall victim of such friendship of materialistic friends [instead of teaching them Quran] which affects these Muslims, they loose certain amount of their 'Muslim-ness' and doubts come into their minds.....They begin to say they were born in Islam but they do not care now.......There are such people everywhere who do not practice a faith but loosely keep its name with them......It is not a confusion, maybe a fusion of such non-practicing Muslims with disbelief......When I say All Muslims, it means those who believe, respect and try to practice Islam [regardless of sect].

 

[use_your_brain]

We should divide that question into its component parts, I think.

1. Is the Qur'an in some sense perfect?
2. Is the Qur'an true? If so, in which senses and with which consequences?
3. How divinely inspired is the Qur'an, and how does that level of divine inspiration relate to its truth and its perfection?

My answers are:

1. It may be perfectly correct in a grammatical or even artistic sense, I suppose. It is certainly very imperfect in the religious and theological senses.
2. Its doctrine is demonstrably wrong, as any atheist may tell you.
3. Not at all, it seems to me. Not divinely and, frankly, not much inspired at all.

I would expect a true divinely inspired book to be drammatic in its effects. To bring lasting, readily perceptible wisdom on whoever read it in full.




But it is wrong.

1. Why do you think it is imperfect in the religious and theological senses?
2. What kind of its doctrine is wrong?
3. Why do you think the Quran is not an inspired book?

 

[DawudTalut]

That is hardly absent before Muhammad. Even Paul of the Christian tradition explicitly had the same goal.

Peace be on you.
""Why did Jesus prohibit the Gospel from being preached to the Gentiles during his ministry (Matthew 10:5, 7:6, 15:24-26) but after his 'resurrection' tell them to preach the Gospel to the whole world? (Mark 16:15)

If Jesus really had made the latter statement, why was there such a fierce debate within the early Church (and particularly between Peter and Paul) as to whether the Gospel should be preached to the Gentiles? (Acts 15:6-30)""
Ref:https://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000040.html

[Note: Ahmadiyya-Muslims do not believe 'resurection of Jesus' he appeared like not alive, that is why it is written commas in above quotes, Jesus (a.s.) was taken away from cross, healed, migrated and preached to other tribes along way to Iran, Afghanistan, Kashmir with success]

""GOD OF THE BIBLE A NATIONAL GOD
The Bible talked not of God, but of the God of Israel.
We read in it again and again :
And David said to Abigail, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, which sent thee this day to meet me (I Samuel 25 : 32). And also thus said the king, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, which hath given one to sit on my throne this day, mine eyes even seeing it (I Kings I : 48). Blessed be the Lord God of Israel for ever and ever. And all the people said, Amen, and praised the Lord (I Chronicles 16 : 36). And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, who hath with his hands fulfilled that which he spake with his mouth to my father David, saying . . . (II Chronicles 6 : 4). "God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things" (Psalms 72 : 18). Jesus also regarded himself as a Teacher for Bani Isra'il. If others approached him, he would send them away. In Matthew 15: 21-26 we read : Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David ; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away ; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. Jesus also taught the apostles Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you (Matt. 7 : 6).""
Ref: Page 7 plus @ https://www.alislam.org/library/books/Introduction-Study-Holy-Quran.pdf

 

[outhouse]

Why did Jesus prohibit the Gospel from being preached to the Gentiles during his ministry

Because it did not exist.

That and Jesus was a typical Aramaic Galilean jew teaching Judaism he learned from John the Baptist. he never taught Christianity in any way.

 

[outhouse]

Jesus (a.s.) was taken away from cross, healed, migrated and preached to other tribes along way to Iran, Afghanistan, Kashmir with success]

That is not a historical position. It has no credibility anywhere and it is not academic.

 

[DawudTalut]

Because it did not exist.

That and Jesus was a typical Aramaic Galilean jew teaching Judaism he learned from John the Baptist. he never taught Christianity in any way.

Peace be on you.
Jesus was Jew, true. He was stressing on leniency. He did not bring a universal message. That is why he clearly said about things to come.

 

[outhouse]

we do believe the Quran is the word of God because it is what our religion teaches.

YEC Christians think the earth is 6000 years old and thinks their religion teaches them this.


I think it would insult a god to say he had someone write down so many historical and scientific errors.

To me its this literalism that got islam in trouble. It once was the learning center of the world, and the religion become to literal and it has never recovered.

 

[Augustus]

I would expect a true divinely inspired book to be drammatic in its effects.

To play devil's advocate, a large empire, 1 billion adherents, the power to make people weep and carry out incredible acts of devotion, etc. is pretty dramatic in it's effects.

 

[outhouse]

He was stressing on leniency

Actually no.

The Galileans were known as pious Jews, and it was the Hellenist who were perverting the religion and promoting leniency. Jesus tried fighting these people in the temple probably because he was not lenient.

These Hellenist are the ones who created all of the NT. Not one Aramaic Jew had anything to do with the NT

That is why he clearly said about things to come

Only the Hellenistic authors stated this. Not Jesus

 

[outhouse]

To play devil's advocate, a large empire, 1 billion adherents, the power to make people weep and carry out incredible acts of devotion, etc. is pretty dramatic in it's effects.

But your taking his statement out of context completely.

Readily perceptible wisdom should be for all people, not just the faithful.


And "your" dramatic is way out of context, 1 B fundamentalist is very dramatic. But what he had in mind was more along the lines of having a real impact on every reader because it was truly from a non human origin showing supreme intellect and IQ that transcends humanity.

Instead were left with obvious plagiarized human mythology from previous civilizations as monotheism became popular outside of what used to be the Romans Empire.

 

[use_your_brain]

YEC Christians think the earth is 6000 years old and thinks their religion teaches them this.


I think it would insult a god to say he had someone write down so many historical and scientific errors.

To me its this literalism that got islam in trouble. It once was the learning center of the world, and the religion become to literal and it has never recovered.

Does my answer have to do with Christianity?
Do you think God wrote the book?
Which historical and scientific errors do you talk about?
if the quran belonged to the errors then certainly we got islam in trouble.

 

[outhouse]

Do you think God wrote the book?

Only humans did.

Does my answer have to do with Christianity?

Your methodology is you believe because that is what you are taught

I'm showing you a similarity that not everything you are taught will be correct.

 

[outhouse]

Which scientific errors do you talk about?

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran

 

[use_your_brain]

Only humans did.



Your methodology is you believe because that is what you are taught

I'm showing you a similarity that not everything you are taught will be correct.

Yes humans wrote the book. who else can do that?
I do believe because it is worthy to be believed. Let alone it is a true book. if not then I wont to believe it. very simple.
can you show me the incorrect thing in my holy book? Propose one example. not a whole anti islamic site. YOU CAN'T.

 

[FearGod]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran

You're sourcing from anti Islam website, speak from your own mind than from the haters.

Bring here one scientific error in the quran to discuss it.