How The Democrats Will Still Lose

[PureX]

I disagree with the opening post. I think it’s quite smart to take advantage of a change in candidate and whip up excitement and enthusiasm to vote. One major dilemma for democrats is the lack of enthusiasm and the Harris team has been brilliant in bringing in celebrities and positive messages that resonate with the younger voters.

That will last a week or two.

All is making Trump and Vance look like amateurs who fall back on race and gender stereotypes.

All the more reason to hit back with real solutions to real problems instead of "nut-huh, YOU did!"

Democrats have a broad and diverse coalition snd Harris will need to address all if them to win. The undecided are not holding back because they are fully informed and in deep consideration, they are waiting to see who has the momentum and the advantage.

They are waiting to see if anyone will step up and actually do something for the people of this country, instead of for their corporate sponsors and themselves.

 

[anna.]

I am not grieving.

I didn't say you were grieving, I referred to your grievances. That is, the things that you were complaining about.

I am simply offering a warning. There are a lot of people that resent liberal virtue-signaling, and they are exactly the people that could vote for Trump as a result. And part of the reason they resent it so much is because the democratic politicians love to prance around playing the good guys INSTEAD OF DOING THE REALLY HARD STUFF THAT NEEDS TO GET DONE. Like working on eliminating the electoral college. Like eliminating the wholesale legalized bribery of the U.S. legislature by corporate sponsored bag men. Many of them retired legislators, themselves. And now they have even corrupted the Supreme Court. Or like replacing the Glass-Steagall Act that banned banks from engaging in market speculation. Like rewriting the NAFTA to get back and keep U.S. industries in the U.S., and the middle class jobs that are associated with them. We could call it a matter of national security, even. Like raising the minimum wage so everyone can afford to live indoors, again. Like figuring out how to deal with a massive drug addiction epidemic that is currently being completely ignored, and is killing hundreds of our sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters every single day. Like reforming health care to make it both equitable and affordable, and reigning in the boundless and even murderous greed of the pharmaceutical manufacturers and health care conglomerates. And that's just the top of the list.

I'm not saying that liberal causes don't matter. But for most people they are not at the top of the list of things that do matter. Not right now.

I often see the accusation of virtue-signaling without actual support for virtue-signaling. Can you give me a concrete example of it, rather than some vague hand-waving about diversity or freedom?

And your language - "prancing," for example - how is that other than your own polemic? I could give you a whole list of things accomplished during Biden's term, but would it matter to you?

Who, exactly, corrupted the Supreme Court? Surely not the ones "prancing around?"

Who raised the minimum wage in California, and whose feathers have been permanently ruffled as a result?

Who will fight tooth and nail to *prevent* any kind of universal healthcare? Certainly not any of those "prancing" Democrats, surely?!

Are you speaking for "most people" about the things that do matter?

 

[PureX]

It's not about white males or race at all. There are workers of all colors who think that the Democratic party is ignoring the economic interests of the worker.

They ARE ignoring the economic interests of the workers. They talk the talk, but when it comes time to act, their corporate sponsors come first. Biden voted against raising the minimum wage a half dozen times throughout his years in the Senate. He also voted against health care reforms. And ro repeal the Glass-Steagall Act, and in favor of NAFTA. All along with his buddy Bill Clinton.

We would be fools to think the democrats care about the working class. They've been helping their rich donors screw over the working class for decades. It's why I don't think the old 'dog-and-pony-show' is going to work for them, anymore.

 

[Revoltingest]

These aren't "separate issues".

Agree to disagree.

 

[Revoltingest]

I also think the majority wants to see a hopeful, positive view of the future. Reagan had "morning in America". Obama had "hope and change" Back further Kennedy had "New frontier". Hillary lost by demonizing people. Trump beat her by demonizing other people. This goes along with the optimism the US was founded on - self-evident truths and all the rest.

Trump had demonization going full tilt.
But he also had a positivity that appealed
to anti-liberals, conservatives, & idiots.

Harris starts the commercial with "what kind of country do we want to live in?. There are some people (image of Trump) that believe we should be a country of chaos, of fear, of hate. But we choose something different. We choose freedom" - that's the essence of her campaign.Those who Ignore that ignore that "simplistic slogan" @Revoltingest pointed out is a winner. Trump is campaigning on the simplistic slogan of demonizing. I'll put money on the optimism that is part of our DNA

Whatever her campaign style, I hope
it keeps Trump from implemeneting
a theocratic Imperial Presidency.

 

[anna.]

hillary won the popular vote, and yes, we are in crisis, the choice is between moving forward as we have mostly done or backpedaling to an age that never was.

Even seniors recognize this at this point, they still love their grandchildren.

Just read through the thread, and you beat me to that first point. GMTA.

 

[Pogo]

Once you've determined what clas you're in. You can see which other classes are pushing you which way. Wage and salary has more in common with each other as do welfare and investment classes. The investment class tends to put the wage and welfare classes against each other.

You neglected the retirees that fall variously into the welfare and investment class.

 

[anna.]

The homelessness problem in states like California is a disgrace, and even doubly so now that Newsome is driving out all the homeless encampments.

What do you think Newsom should do about the 180,000 homeless people in California? Seriously? What will solve the problem?

 

[Pogo]

Well, I've said it before, but the Democrats need to get back to the basics of being the party of working people. The best they can say now is that they're not as bad as the Republicans when it comes to treatment of the workers and lower classes. The homelessness problem in states like California is a disgrace, and even doubly so now that Newsome is driving out all the homeless encampments. That's Kamala Harris' home state.

Certainly, the Democrats have a very good chance of winning, but they can't take anything for granted or get too arrogant or overconfident.

Not really, just get back to being the party that is recognized as having the best interests of all of the country.

 

[PureX]

I often see the accusation of virtue-signaling without actual support for virtue-signaling. Can you give me a concrete example of it, rather than some vague hand-waving about diversity or freedom?

Just look up Kamala Harris' recent political ad. I'm sure you can find it easily.

And your language - "prancing," for example - how is that other than your own polemic? I could give you a whole list of things accomplished during Biden's term, but would it matter to you?

Yes, those things matter. And they should be talked about. But they were not the things high up on the list of things that we really need to be addressing. That list that neither side wants to talk about because their corporate sponsors aren't going to like the solutions. Which is why they are not having the much of the positive effect for democrats that they would like.

Who, exactly, corrupted the Supreme Court? Surely not the ones "prancing around?"

The billionaires and their corporate conglomerates that are corrupting the courts and the legislature spend their money on both sides of the isle so that no matter who wins, they'll own 'em. Their corruption is not partisan.

Who raised the minimum wage in California, and whose feathers have been permanently ruffled as a result?

And still there are giant homeless camps all over the state. The democratic politicians throw huge piles of money at the problem and it all gets swallowed up by middlemen and political cronies leaving the homeless still homeless. Billions of dollars have been spent and the problem just keeps getting worse. Because the money never gets applied to the problem.

Who will fight tooth and nail to *prevent* any kind of universal healthcare? Certainly not any of those "prancing" Democrats, surely?!

Biden voted against health care reform every time. It's not the republicans or democrats that are destroying this country, It's the fact that they have both been bought off by a few very rich and very powerful and very greedy corporate oligarchies.

Are you speaking for "most people" about the things that do matter?

More and more people are realizing how bad things have really gotten, and how hopelessly corrupted the government really is. It's why it's so difficult to win them over with the usual flag-waving and moral platitudes. They need to see some real action, and they aren't seeing it. I think Harris could win in a huge landslide if she can muster the courage and insight to stand up and address these very real problems head on. And the whole democratic part could win in a landslide if they stood up with her.

But they aren't going to cross their corporate sponsors, most of them. And even if she wins and she tries to make real changes, most of her fellow democrats will sabotage her efforts just like they did when Obama tried to reform health care.

 

[Pogo]

Just read through the thread, and you beat me to that first point. GMTA.

you give me way too much credit, I had to Google it.

 

[Absolutely Frank]

They ARE ignoring the economic interests of the workers. They talk the talk, but when it comes time to act, their corporate sponsors come first. Biden voted against raising the minimum wage a half dozen times throughout his years in the Senate. He also voted against health care reforms. And ro repeal the Glass-Steagall Act, and in favor of NAFTA. All along with his buddy Bill Clinton.

We would be fools to think the democrats care about the working class. They've been helping their rich donors screw over the working class for decades. It's why I don't think the old 'dog-and-pony-show' is going to work for them, anymore.

Their whole cultural platform is pure simulacra. A show to distract us from worrying about the grumblings coming from empty stomachs.

 

[anna.]

you give me way too much credit, I had to Google it.

Which, the Hillary popular vote, or the GMTA?

 

[Pogo]

What do you think Newsom should do about the 180,000 homeless people in California? Seriously? What will solve the problem?

Support those who are not there by choice and respect those who are. Locally we have cleared the "Jungle" every few years with at best temporary success, but I also know ones who do not want to live elsewhere including a former coworker whose daughter is a well off real estate agent.
Some assumptions need to be changed, and it is not just fair weather, it goes below 0 F here every year.

 

[anna.]

Just look up Kamala Harris' recent political ad. I'm sure you can find it easily.

You made the allegation, surely you can move from the vague to the concrete with an example?

Yes, those things matter. And they should be talked about. But they were not the things high up on the list of things that we really need to be addressing. That list that neither side wants to talk about because their corporate sponsors aren't going to like the solutions. Which is why they are not having the much of the positive effect for democrats that they would like.

The billionaires and their corporate conglomerates that are corrupting the courts and the legislature spend their money on both sides of the isle so that no matter who wins, they'll own 'em. Their corruption is not partisan.

And still there are giant homeless camps all over the state. The democratic politicians throw huge piles of money at the problem and it all gets swallowed up by middlemen and political cronies leaving the homeless still homeless. Billions of dollars have been spent and the problem just keeps getting worse. Because the money never gets applied to the problem.

Biden voted against health care reform every time. It's not the republicans or democrats that are destroying this country, It's the fact that they have both been bought off by a few very rich and very powerful and very greedy corporate oligarchies.

More and more people are realizing how bad things have really gotten, and how hopelessly corrupted the government really is. It's why it's so difficult to win them over with the usual flag-waving and moral platitudes. They need to see some real action, and they aren't seeing it. I think Harris could win in a huge landslide if she can muster the courage and insight to stand up and address these very real problems head on. And the whole democratic part could win in a landslide if they stood up with her.

But they aren't going to cross their corporate sponsors, most of them. And even if she wins and she tries to make real changes, most of her fellow democrats will sabotage her efforts just like they did when Obama tried to reform health care.

I'll ask you what I asked @Stevicus: There are 180,000 homeless in California. What's your plan to solve the problem?

Biden voted against health care reform every time? When? When he was a senator?

How about as president:

"Access to affordable health care is Biden’s crowning achievement. The number of uninsured Americans hit an all-time low of 7.2% in the second quarter of 2023, while the number of people who signed up for an Obamacare plan for 2024 surged to 21.3 million."

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

PureX, will you be voting for a presidential candidate in November?

 

[Pogo]

Their whole cultural platform is pure simulacra. A show to distract us from worrying about the grumblings coming from empty stomachs.

Whatever that means.

 

[anna.]

Support those who are not there by choice and respect those who are. Locally we have cleared the "Jungle" every few years with at best temporary success, but I also know ones who do not want to live elsewhere including a former coworker whose daughter is a well off real estate agent.
Some assumptions need to be changed, and it is not just fair weather, it goes below 0 F here every year.

I live in California, and the issue is so incredibly complex, there are so many factors involved in who is homeless, why they are homeless, and can their situations be solved with intervention. I'm glad I'm not involved in policy decisions regarding the homeless, because they're damned if they do something about it and damned if they don't.

 

[Pogo]

Which, the Hillary popular vote, or the GMTA?

LOL, not a senior moment, just unfamiliarity with the new "lingo".

 

[The Hammer]

You neglected the retirees that fall variously into the welfare and investment class.

There are some minor outliers sure. I fall between those two.

There are also those who get their income solely through individual means such as royalties from books. But these are still minor compared.

 

[PureX]

What do you think Newsom should do about the 180,000 homeless people in California? Seriously? What will solve the problem?

Stop throwing billions of dollars away on crony "developers" that take the money and do nothing. Start hiring the homeless to build their own dwellings, like they did back in the public works days after the depression. That part is easy. It's the drug addiction that is so difficult to deal with, because a significant number of those people will die in their addiction. They are never going to be returned to a useful functional life. And there is nothing anyone can do about it but to try and treat them humanely as they die, slowly. And to make it even more difficult, we have no way of knowing which of them can be saved, and which of them can't. So we have to keep trying and keep offering them recovery because sometimes and for some people it works. And it can save their life.

We as a society should NEVER have let it come to this, but we did, and now it's going to be a long and difficult and expensive road to return ourselves to sanity and some semblance of humanity. But nothing is going to happen if we keep ignoring what's been happening since the 1980s in terms of corporate greed, government corruption, the demoralization of the working class and crime and drug addiction running rampant while we all stuck our collective heads in the sand.