How to stop all thoughts for good.

[Onkara]

Hi Peacewise and all
You touch on an important question. It appears that when someone says "stop thoughts, reach the no mind state" the question becomes "how? What is it like? When for me?". It is almsot like throwing fuel on the fire of the mind.

Often, very often, people say "no, I don't agree." Which is a pitty as it misses the miracle that the intial poster wanted to share. Thus is it really helpful to say "stop thoughts etc"?

I wonder what others would suggest about that (other than that is itself a thought)?

The answer seems to be as Zenzero, Self and Joea touch on... there is no benefit in forcing it.

What I wonder is if the thought of God itself is a thought which brings all thoughts into line, it is the mantra-thought in that it stills the jibber jabber of the mind albeit it still repeats the name of a God. What then happens, does it matter?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Here is a more simplistic way of saying it:

BE AWARE THAT YOU ARE AWARE

when this occurs, the false self or Ego will go away and another I will emerge, that is the real self, pure being.

Hi Self, consciousness is omnipresent at every level of being of the holarchical comological whole, but for convenience of teaching, seven levels are considered.

Given that each of the seven chakras represent a cosmic reality level, human consciousness is the synthesis of seven levels simultaneously but with one or more generally dominant than the others depending on the focus. It is not a mere matter of stopping or aligning one, two, three, four, five, or even six chakras, the resulting resulting consciousness will still not be the integrated whole or real Self. This only happens when the seven are aligned and the seven operate as ONE,..the real Self.

Now these levels are not to be understood as a linear progression for the seventh chakra corresponds to the Atma level of 'consciousness which is omnipresent and omniscient throughout the Star system and is basically what many religions understand as God, i.e. the Solar Logos.

When a disciple stills their mind for the first time and realizes a state of subtle peace/bliss/etc., it is a relative state for it most probably indicates merely the beginning of integration (alignment) of the lower four with the fifth level. Beyond that the really great ones who realize alignment of the lower five begin the integration with the sixth or planetary Deity level. Beyond that are the avatars who attain the alignment of all seven and are one with the Logos.

BTW, the consciousness of the higher levels extend way beyond this planet and interpenetrate other planets. However there is really nothing that can be said about such consciousness because it is beyond the 3D time-space reality with which the mortal mind is familiar, suffice to say that it is out of body. Though an avatar can still function in the physical body and interact with humans functioning on the lower planes of consciousness, what appears to be originating from them is in fact being transmitted from on high, they are only a messenger and more for this is the mystery of a Divine incarnation.

 

[joea]

Hi Peacewise and all
You touch on an important question. It appears that when someone says "stop thoughts, reach the no mind state" the question becomes "how? What is it like? When for me?". It is almsot like throwing fuel on the fire of the mind.

Often, very often, people say "no, I don't agree." Which is a pitty as it misses the miracle that the intial poster wanted to share. Thus is it really helpful to say "stop thoughts etc"?

I wonder what others would suggest about that (other than that is itself a thought)?

The answer seems to be as Zenzero, Self and Joea touch on... there is no benefit in forcing it.

What I wonder is if the thought of God itself is a thought which brings all thoughts into line, it is the mantra-thought in that it stills the jibber jabber of the mind albeit it still repeats the name of a God. What then happens, does it matter?

OnKarah,

It is a difficult subject to try and explained, but my own knowing of it is this; Witnessing your thoughts is the Beginning, No-Mind is the Fulfillment.. One is able to observe and watch his thoughts through meditation,“Meditation is witnessing. Witnessing is the method to reach the No-mind, but then when you come to the No-mind, it is not easy to put into words..
The No-mind is the last stage of flowering. witnessing is only like seeds, then there is the long waiting period, trusting that this seed is going to sprout into a bush; Then one day spring will come and that bush will have flowers, the last stage of flowering is the No-mind. Sowing the seeds and preparing the ground is easy; But bringing the flowers is beyond you. You cannot force the flowers to come, the flowers will come on their own accord. Spring is beyond your reach too - if the prepartion was good, spring comes; The last satge of flowering is the No-mind.....OnKarah, I believe when it comes to existence, one needs patience, because the mysteries of existence only come to those who have immense patience.

 

[Onkara]

OnKarah,

It is a difficult subject to try and explained, but my own knowing of it is this; Witnessing your thoughts is the Beginning, No-Mind is the Fulfillment.. One is able to observe and watch his thoughts through meditation,“Meditation is witnessing. Witnessing is the method to reach the No-mind, but then when you come to the No-mind, it is not easy to put into words..
The No-mind is the last stage of flowering. witnessing is only like seeds, then there is the long waiting period, trusting that this seed is going to sprout into a bush; Then one day spring will come and that bush will have flowers, the last stage of flowering is the No-mind. Sowing the seeds and preparing the ground is easy; But bringing the flowers is beyond you. You cannot force the flowers to come, the flowers will come on their own accord. Spring is beyond your reach too - if the prepartion was good, spring comes; The last satge of flowering is the No-mind.....OnKarah, I believe when it comes to existence, one needs patience, because the mysteries of existence only come to those who have immense patience.

Thanks Joea
That is a kind and helpful reply
Just to bring in some context, "I" don't appear to be desiring the goal of no-thoughts as such, more trying to understand, using thoughts which is the limitation acknowledged by thought. You are right, because it is then watching the thoughts which I describe here.

The reason is that there cannot be a doing or the doing itself would be thought, correct?

So what is there to do? Nothing? However nothing is not satisfactory for the seeker with thoughts. This is the angle of my question; should the seeker still in the realm of seeds (thoughts) forget the doing and hand over the doing to a single thought i.e. the thought of "God". God is a useful thought in that in it can result in nothing, which I understand is also the state of the thoughtless no-mind. It is then that that God-thought too is dropped.

The challenge as I see it is bringing the thoughtful mind to the no-mind, and as you say, there is nothing one can "do" about that.

On a side topic, to the thoughtful mind, your post would indicate thoughts i.e. you must be thinking to type? Can that be explained?

Thanks
O.

 

[Peacewise]

I went from thoughts to awareness. From thinking words, to observing myself without words - I presume this is the awareness being spoken of.
And as I was reading joea's post it seemed to me that it is the little seed of awareness that she is talking about, that the awareness is the no-think under discussion and that as these small parcels of no-think/awareness increase into longer time periods then they grow into the bush she speaks of.
Is that what you mean joea?

 

[joea]

Thanks Joea
That is a kind and helpful reply
Just to bring in some context, "I" don't appear to be desiring the goal of no-thoughts as such, more trying to understand, using thoughts which is the limitation acknowledged by thought. You are right, because it is then watching the thoughts which I describe here.

The reason is that there cannot be a doing or the doing itself would be thought, correct?

So what is there to do? Nothing? However nothing is not satisfactory for the seeker with thoughts. This is the angle of my question; should the seeker still in the realm of seeds (thoughts) forget the doing and hand over the doing to a single thought i.e. the thought of "God". God is a useful thought in that in it can result in nothing, which I understand is also the state of the thoughtless no-mind. It is then that that God-thought too is dropped.

The challenge as I see it is bringing the thoughtful mind to the no-mind, and as you say, there is nothing one can "do" about that.

On a side topic, to the thoughtful mind, your post would indicate thoughts i.e. you must be thinking to type? Can that be explained?

Thanks
O.

OnKarah, let me come from another angle, you will not be freed of thoughts, so long as you still have desires to fulfill; Even the planning of to become thoughtless is still thinking...

 

[joea]

I went from thoughts to awareness. From thinking words, to observing myself without words - I presume this is the awareness being spoken of.
And as I was reading joea's post it seemed to me that it is the little seed of awareness that she is talking about, that the awareness is the no-think under discussion and that as these small parcels of no-think/awareness increase into longer time periods then they grow into the bush she speaks of.
Is that what you mean joea?

You're on the right track..and by the way my Ozi mate,....I'm a He not a SHE..go to my profile and check and leave me some frubals there.

 

[zenzero]

Friend UV,

Shoot a bullet through your brain?

What you waiting for?

I know it's a DIR.... I couldn't help mySelf......

Nothing to be sorry about.
Its all Zen here.
Silence is the only ACTION allowed HERE-NOW!

Love & rgds

 

[Onkara]

OnKarah, let me come from another angle, you will not be freed of thoughts, so long as you still have desires to fulfill; Even the planning of to become thoughtless is still thinking...

Hi
Understood even wanting to understand no-mind is a thought, a desire. So if it not thoughts in action, what (or who) is that posts, is it just happening? surely the thoughts are still seen?

 

[joea]

When nothing else matters..what is the point ?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Hi
Understood even wanting to understand no-mind is a thought, a desire. So if it not thoughts in action, what (or who) is that posts, is it just happening? surely the thoughts are still seen?

Excellent question Onkarah, but it is not the thought that is important, it's the thinker, so long as there's a 'you' that has stopped thoughts or not stopped thoughts, a 'you' that conceives itself enlightened or not enlightened, 'you' are far from the realization of Oneness.

That it requires a mind free from conceptualizing is logical, but the stilling of the mind ultimately is a by product of the transition of self identification from mortal mind to universal Self.

When this transition is complete, there is no you and there is only a state of non-duality, then the ONE is revealed. The ONE can never be revealed in installments over time for it is an indivisible whole. As said on another thread, the ONE can only reveal the ONE to the ONE through the medium of ONE,..period.

IMHO, the ONE doesn't post here at RF or anywhere else for that matter, nor does the ONE ever claim enlightenment. However on an esoteric level, the ONE is the only poster here at RF and elsewhere

 

[katiafish]

There is a big difference between thinking and resonating. Why use intellect, when we can just access all the information available to us through our connection and insepartedness with the Divine Unity.
Trust Your Self and the need for thought will cease.

 

[zenzero]

Friend ben,

frubals!

just adding to it from another angle.
One is a part of the universal *Consciousness* and that is within each form.
One just has to be *aware* of that reality and slowly this awareness of the consciousness within reaches the point where the consciousness within and without has no watcher or one that was aware of it.
The form is no more.
The watcher and the watched are both gone.
Love & rgds

 

[joea]

Hi
Understood even wanting to understand no-mind is a thought, a desire. So if it not thoughts in action, what (or who) is that posts, is it just happening? surely the thoughts are still seen?

Onkarah,
My own understanding, there is a difference between the man stilling the mind and the man with the no-mind, although they look alike from the outside, because they are both silent. Stilling the mind is a thought, because a man stilling his mind is still in control...But the man with the no-mind or mindlessness, has nothing to control, just pure emptiness...correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Willowmina]

Hi Self, consciousness is omnipresent at every level of being of the holarchical comological whole, but for convenience of teaching, seven levels are considered.

Given that each of the seven chakras represent a cosmic reality level, human consciousness is the synthesis of seven levels simultaneously but with one or more generally dominant than the others depending on the focus. It is not a mere matter of stopping or aligning one, two, three, four, five, or even six chakras, the resulting resulting consciousness will still not be the integrated whole or real Self. This only happens when the seven are aligned and the seven operate as ONE,..the real Self.

Now these levels are not to be understood as a linear progression for the seventh chakra corresponds to the Atma level of 'consciousness which is omnipresent and omniscient throughout the Star system and is basically what many religions understand as God, i.e. the Solar Logos.

When a disciple stills their mind for the first time and realizes a state of subtle peace/bliss/etc., it is a relative state for it most probably indicates merely the beginning of integration (alignment) of the lower four with the fifth level. Beyond that the really great ones who realize alignment of the lower five begin the integration with the sixth or planetary Deity level. Beyond that are the avatars who attain the alignment of all seven and are one with the Logos.

BTW, the consciousness of the higher levels extend way beyond this planet and interpenetrate other planets. However there is really nothing that can be said about such consciousness because it is beyond the 3D time-space reality with which the mortal mind is familiar, suffice to say that it is out of body. Though an avatar can still function in the physical body and interact with humans functioning on the lower planes of consciousness, what appears to be originating from them is in fact being transmitted from on high, they are only a messenger and more for this is the mystery of a Divine incarnation.

Sounds a bit like Sri Auribindo....in the higher consciousness, do planets even exist as such...or is that just a thought?
:namaste

 

[Twilight Hue]

Shoot a bullet through your brain?






:sorry1::sorry1::sorry1:
I know it's a DIR.... I couldn't help mySelf......

You know when I saw the title. I thought exactly the same thing. :angel2:

 

[Rainbow Mage]

There is no effort one has to put forth to stop thoughts of self. No one's thoughts are truly their own, all are in God, and God in all. We cannot do anything. We may think we contribute, but we actually contribute nothing. That is the true reality. The physical body is an illusion.

 

[zenzero]

Friend HM,
Yes, true!
When the disciple asked the master as to what he should do to gain enlightenment was told Do nothing. [not even thinking]
One is born of enlightenment [consciousness]; just understanding that is enough!

LOve & rgds

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Sounds a bit like Sri Auribindo....in the higher consciousness, do planets even exist as such...or is that just a thought?
:namaste

Hi Willowmina, not too familiar with the teachings of Auribindo so can't comment.

Concerning the other spheres associated with a planetary system, their existence can't be proven by contemporary science as they are transcendent to the natural range of vibrational perception possessed by mankind. However in esoteric traditions associated with most religions, it is assumed they exist. They may be called heavens or hells, lokas and talas, Sephiroth, etc., and constitute those aspects of the Absolute that lie in the so called spiritual world. FWIW, Theosophists have written a lot on this subject but it really is a huge subject and not an easy read.

Even a secular scientist like Einstein understood that the seeming duality of matter and energy was merely one of limited mortal perception, with this statement,.. "Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter."

Ultimately matter, energy, spirit, etc., form ONE indivisible frequency continuum from the infinite to infinitesimal wavelengths. God is a concept to represent this ONE cosmic holarchy whose underlying eternal omnipresent beingness is immanent in all things and yet simultaneously transcendent.

Aummmmmmmm m:

 

[Willowmina]

Hi Willowmina, not too familiar with the teachings of Auribindo so can't comment.

Concerning the other spheres associated with a planetary system, their existence can't be proven by contemporary science as they are transcendent to the natural range of vibrational perception possessed by mankind. However in esoteric traditions associated with most religions, it is assumed they exist. They may be called heavens or hells, lokas and talas, Sephiroth, etc., and constitute those aspects of the Absolute that lie in the so called spiritual world. FWIW, Theosophists have written a lot on this subject but it really is a huge subject and not an easy read.

Even a secular scientist like Einstein understood that the seeming duality of matter and energy was merely one of limited mortal perception, with this statement,.. "Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter."

Ultimately matter, energy, spirit, etc., form ONE indivisible frequency continuum from the infinite to infinitesimal wavelengths. God is a concept to represent this ONE cosmic holarchy whose underlying eternal omnipresent beingness is immanent in all things and yet simultaneously transcendent.

Aummmmmmmm m:

as far as i know, Eistein was not a secularist.
Is Om a concept also?


I want to know all Gods thoughts; all the rest are just details.

Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.

God always takes the simplest way.
Albert Einstein