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How we know that there was no Flood of Noah.

james dixon

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Your view of things is based upon a refuted myth. No one would take such claims seriously.

Why didn't you address my post about tectonic plates instead of wasting your time telling me how stupid I am?

Wait, I just realized why.
I won the science argument (there have been great floods); so you are now resorting to attacking me instead of addressing the post on its merits.

Ok, I admit it, I am stupider than you
 

james dixon

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
That is the rather blasphemous belief of a minority of Christians.

Wait a minute, your not a Christian?

You do realize that this is a "Religion Forum" so my guess is your a troll. The first troll I have ever had the pleasure to met.

Maybe before the end you will see the light and become one of us.

If you do, you are welcome into our family tree
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Why didn't you address my post about tectonic plates instead of wasting your time telling me how stupid I am?

Wait, I just realized why.
I won the science argument (there have been great floods); so you are now resorting to attacking me instead of addressing the post on its merits.

Ok, I admit it, I am stupider than you
I did not say you were stupid, you used a stupid argument. Even a smart person can make that error at time, just as an honest person may unknowingly rely upon liars and make a lying argument.

Once again, you should be trying to learn why we know that you are wrong.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
We know that the northern half of our earth was covered in ice once upon a time.

No, subduction zone is right.

And no, not even the "norther half of our Earth" was covered. Less than half of the Northern hemisphere was glaciated. But that has nothing to do with the flood myth so why did you even bring it up?

Only some regions in northern hemisphere were covered ice sheet.

Below is map of the northern hemisphere.

1920px-Northern_icesheet_hg.png


Only blue area marked the greatest extent of the ice sheets, which is about 20,000 years ago.

PS

Damn! Image is not displaying.

Ok, here is the link
 
Last edited:

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Wait a minute, your not a Christian?

You do realize that this is a "Religion Forum" so my guess is your a troll. The first troll I have ever had the pleasure to met.

Maybe before the end you will see the light and become one of us.

If you do, you are welcome into our family tree

Watch it, you have crossed a line that I did not come close to crossing. I used to be a Christian. I probably understand much of the Bible better than you do since I no longer am a Christian. Understanding the Bible is a pathway to atheism. You clearly are blinded by your own religion.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
No, subduction zone is right.



Only some regions in northern hemisphere were covered ice sheet.

Below is map of the northern hemisphere.

1920px-Northern_icesheet_hg.png


Only blue area marked the greatest extent of the ice sheets, which is about 20,000 years ago.
And that does not even show the entire Norther Hemisphere. Both norther South America and northern Africa are both in the Northern Hemisphere.
 

james dixon

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It was never claimed that the Bible was without flaw.

I never said the bible was without flaws. The bible is based on translations and interpretations that leads to errors in interpretation. I can accept that.

What I find in the bible are helpful to me in understanding myself and how I should treat others.

Five (5) of the Ten Commandments, commandments have been put into “law” by every country on this planet.

1. Thou shalt not kill. (murder)

2. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

3. Thou shalt not steal.

4. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

5. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

I get comfort in the bible, if you don’t then so be it.

In the biblical context of the great flood the author or authors were using analogies to better explain the narrative to the audience present at the time.

That is how I see it; how do you see it--?
(in your own words)
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I never said the bible was without flaws. The bible is based on translations and interpretations that leads to errors in interpretation. I can accept that.

What I find in the bible are helpful to me in understanding myself and how I should treat others.

Five (5) of the Ten Commandments, commandments have been put into “law” by every country on this planet.

1. Thou shalt not kill. (murder)

2. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

3. Thou shalt not steal.

4. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

5. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

I get comfort in the bible, if you don’t then so be it.

In the biblical context of the great flood the author or authors were using analogies to better explain the narrative to the audience present at the time.

That is how I see it; how do you see it--?
(in your own words)
So what? Most were copied from an older source. That does not help your cause at all.
 

james dixon

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
And that does not even show the entire Norther Hemisphere. Both norther South America and northern Africa are both in the Northern Hemisphere.

And your point was--?

An ice age is a period of long-term reduction in the temperature of Earth's surface and atmosphere, resulting in the presence or expansion of continental and polar ice sheets and alpine glaciers. Within a long-term ice age, individual pulses of cold climate are termed "glacial periods" (or alternatively "glacials" or "glaciations" or colloquially as "ice age"), and intermittent warm periods are called "interglacials". In the terminology of glaciology, ice age implies the presence of extensive ice sheets in both northern and southern hemispheres.[1] By this definition, we are in an interglacial period—the Holocene—of the ice age. The ice age began 2.6 million years ago at the start of the Pleistocene epoch, because the Greenland, Arctic, and Antarctic ice sheets still exist.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I don't need any help; it's you who is in the need
You keep demonstrating an amazing ignorance of not only of science but even of your Bible. How do I need any help?

As a Christian you should at least try to be honest. If you can't debate properly what are you doing here?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
And your point was--?

An ice age is a period of long-term reduction in the temperature of Earth's surface and atmosphere, resulting in the presence or expansion of continental and polar ice sheets and alpine glaciers. Within a long-term ice age, individual pulses of cold climate are termed "glacial periods" (or alternatively "glacials" or "glaciations" or colloquially as "ice age"), and intermittent warm periods are called "interglacials". In the terminology of glaciology, ice age implies the presence of extensive ice sheets in both northern and southern hemispheres.[1] By this definition, we are in an interglacial period—the Holocene—of the ice age. The ice age began 2.6 million years ago at the start of the Pleistocene epoch, because the Greenland, Arctic, and Antarctic ice sheets still exist.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

That as usual your claim of "facts" was totally wrong. You even cited a source that refutes your beliefs. That is a bit like shooting yourself in the foot.
 

james dixon

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Subduction Zone,

Your “avatar” suggests that you understand geology and earths ongoing development and yet you argue against the obvious.

If this makes you happy then have at it.

I have produced actual “evidence” of massive flooding to prove my point. In turn your rebuttal consists of telling me how dumb I am and nothing else.

If the debate was in a classroom setting I am afraid the teacher would give you a D- at best.

Sorry to be the one to break the news but hopefully you will learn from the experience
 

james dixon

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Subduction Zone, please explain the photos below.

What caused this effect?
Caution, I have the articles that included the pictures and the geologists in these articles stated why/how this occurred.

flood3.jpg
flood2.jpg
flood1.jpg


Now it’s your turn to put in your two cents.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Your view of things is based upon a refuted myth. No one would take such claims seriously.

Instead of making yourself look either foolish or dishonest why not try to learn why we know that there was no flood. You are essentially calling God a liar. Are you sure that you want to do that/


The major volcanic explosion of Hekla 4 in Iceland, which spewed out massive amounts of larva, coupled with a close encounter with a passing comet and a Tunguska like fireball, are believed to have been major issues in the inundation of Ireland that is said to have been left waste for 30 odd years, and the devastating flood around the Mediterranean Sea, which was the known civilized world in the days of Noah around 2350 B.C, the time when this catastrophic event is said to have occurred.

To those who are interested, I would advise them to read the complete “Report on Second Cambridge Conference,” an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. Following is a small extract from said article.

. Marie-Agnes Courty (CNRS, Grignon) presented new archaeological data concerning a catastrophe inferred to have occurred in the Middle East c.2350 BC. She emphasized the importance of high-time-resolution archaeological investigations in the assessment of natural catastrophes on societal collapse, the data in this case indicating the combination of a burnt surface horizon and air blast, consistent with a Tunguska-like fireball, but possibly also a major volcanic event.

The evidence for regional environmental change at about the same time was confirmed and extended by Mike Baillie (Queen’s University Belfast), whose tree-ring analyses of Irish bog oaks showed very significant narrowing of the rings around the year 2345 BC, associated with identified tephra from the Icelandic Hekla 4 volcano, dated to 2310 +/- 20 BC. This suggests a volcanic origin of the c. 2350 BC event identified by Courty, but the period in question is also associated with other events, including floods, the creation of new lakes and even the traditional start of Chinese history! In Baillie’s words, 2345 BC ‘is a classic marker date, i.e. a date which will show up on a regular basis in studies of various kinds’.

Although the flood story as handed down from Noah to his descendant Abraham, may have been a local event around Ireland and the coasts of the Mediterranean Sea, and as far inland to the Euphrates and beyond, it would have been recorded as an event which had flooded their entire known world.

And according to theReport on Second Cambridge Conference,” an article by Mark Bailey,” there were world-wide volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, and destructive floods, which have been recorded from many different civilisations around the globe.

The people of the pre-flood days would not have known that the circumference of the earth was almost 25,000 miles, nor would they have known how many continents and islands there are on this earth. Their known world was limited to the civilised world of those days.

The animals that were taken into the ark, would have been those which were chosen from the animals that had been forced to flee from the rising waters to the higher ground, upon which Noah would have presumably built the ark, which animals would have only been those of his known world that was flooded around the year 2350 BC.

The Ark, which was a rectangular chest-like floating container built of Kopherwood, would of necessity, have to be sealed inside and out with bitumen to stop it from leaking, and Kopherwood is simply any wood that is coated with tar/bitumen. The Ark was subject to tides, currents and wind, having no means of propulsion or steerage, it was guided by the hand of the Lord.

According to the Turin papyrus list, Teti ruled for six months, and Pepi 1, began his rule after Teti, which according to some Egyptologists, was 33 years later, leaving a gap of 33 years between Teti and his successor Pepi, this would support the belief that some catastrophic event occurred around that time, where the evidence shows that Ireland was inundated, around the time of the eruption of Helka4 and is said to have remained desolate for 30 years. A flood of that magnitude would have surely been experienced throughout the Middle East, and perhaps Egypt was desolate and without a king or countrymen for some thirty years also. I believe that the flood that occurred in Noah’ day, around 2,350 BC, was an event that would have been recorded and handed down by a witness of that era, as a world-wide flood.

According to the “Report on Second Cambridge Conference,” an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. There were major events occurring around the world at that time, floods, Meteorite strikes, caused by a close encounter with a disintegrating comet, presumable causing catastrophic world-wide tsunami’ etc, and the flood stories are found throughout the countries of the world.

Over 2,000 years before George Smith’s discovery of the deluge tablets in Iraq, there existed an account of the Chaldean [pre-Babylonian] flood myth. Berosus, an ancient Chaldean historian living in the time of Alexander the Great in the 4th century B.C.E, relayed to the Greeks the antiquity of his peoples deluge myth in the following words: “After the death of Ardates, his son Xisuthrus reigned eighteen sari. In his time happened a great deluge; the history of which is thus described.

The deity Cronos appeared to him in a vision, and warned him that upon the fifteenth day of the month Daesius there would be a flood, by which mankind be destroyed. He therefore enjoined him to write a history of the beginning, procedure, and conclusion of all things, and to bury it in the city of the sun at Sippara; and to build a vessel, and take with him into it his friends and relations; and to convey on board everything necessary to sustain life, together with all the different animals, [In the area of his known world] both birds and quadrupeds, and trust himself fearlessly to the deep.

Having asked the Deity whither he was to sail, he was answered, “To the Gods;” upon which he offered up a prayer for the good of mankind. He then obeyed the divine admonition and built a vessel five stadia in length, and two in breadth. Into this he put everything which he had prepared, and last of all conveyed into it his wife, his children and his friends. After the flood had been upon the earth, and was in time abated, Xisuthrus sent out birds from the vessel; which finding no food, nor any place whereupon they might rest their feet, returned to him again. After an interval of some days, he sent them forth a second time; and they now returned with their feet tinged with mud. He made a trial a third time with these birds; but they returned to him no more: from whence he judged that the surface of the earth had appeared above the waters.

He therefore made an opening in the vessel, and upon looking out found that it was stranded upon the side of some mountains; upon which he immediately quitted it with his wife, his children, and the pilot. Xisuhrus then paid his adoration to the earth: and having constructed an altar, offered sacrifices to the Gods.”

It should be noted that the account of the deluge relayed in the tablets discovered by George Smith differ only very slightly from Berosus’ account, which differs only slightly from the story handed down by the Chaldean, Abraham, whose father ‘Terah’ was High Priest in the temple of the Chaldean city of Ur.

The flood of Noah didn’t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. Something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time “He walked with God.” Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son ‘Methuselah’ was alive, the judgement of the flood would be withheld, but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means death, and from shalach, which means ‘To Bring’ or ‘To Send Forth.’ Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, ‘His Death Shall Bring.’ And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

Remembering that Abraham was the son of Terah the High priest of the temple in the Chaldean city of Ur, and he was, according to the erroneous Roman OT, 58 when Noah died, but who, according to the Septuagint, was born 822 years after the death of Noah, the question is now asked, could the Chaldean name ‘Arsates’ mean, ‘When he dies it will happen? And could the name ‘Xisuthrus’ have the same meaning as that of the name ‘Noah’, which is, “One who brings relief or comfort?”

The Chaldean month of Daesius, is the 2nd month, which corresponds with the biblical account that it was in the second month that the flood came. But there is a two-day discrepancy: the biblical account is the 17th day, [See Genesis 7: 11.] whereas the other is the 15th day.

These three flood accounts are so similar it becomes obvious that they originated from the one source. Another interesting similarity between the Chaldean deluge story and the one as handed down through the Hebrew, is that before the flood, people lived extraordinary long lives until the god/gods declared that man shall no longer live past a restricted age limit. This signifies that the floods of both cultures mark the same transition in the history of the world, that being, the birth of the modern world.

The more that I am forced to look at the flood accounts, the more I am convinced that some catastrophic event occurred 4,500 years ago, which caused worldwide devastating floods and tsunamis, of which the more accurate account of the flood that devastated the civilized world of that day, can be found in the Hebrew culture that came down from the Chaldean Abraham, and his family, whose language and racial religion have remained intact for over 4,000 years.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone,

Your “avatar” suggests that you understand geology and earths ongoing development and yet you argue against the obvious.

If this makes you happy then have at it.

I have produced actual “evidence” of massive flooding to prove my point. In turn your rebuttal consists of telling me how dumb I am and nothing else.

If the debate was in a classroom setting I am afraid the teacher would give you a D- at best.

Sorry to be the one to break the news but hopefully you will learn from the experience
No, you haven't. You have only provided images that you did not understand. None of them show massive flooding.

Arguing improperly is not honest.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone, please explain the photos below.

What caused this effect?
Caution, I have the articles that included the pictures and the geologists in these articles stated why/how this occurred.

View attachment 22823 View attachment 22824 View attachment 22825

Now it’s your turn to put in your two cents.
Long slow erosion. Often by water. No large scale flood need apply.

I earlier asked you to link those articles. Creationist site articles will only be laughed at. Remember how I told you that even an honest person can make the error of making a dishonest argument.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The major volcanic explosion of Hekla 4 in Iceland, which spewed out massive amounts of larva, coupled with a close encounter with a passing comet and a Tunguska like fireball, are believed to have been major issues in the inundation of Ireland that is said to have been left waste for 30 odd years, and the devastating flood around the Mediterranean Sea, which was the known civilized world in the days of Noah around 2350 B.C, the time when this catastrophic event is said to have occurred.

To those who are interested, I would advise them to read the complete “Report on Second Cambridge Conference,” an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. Following is a small extract from said article.

. Marie-Agnes Courty (CNRS, Grignon) presented new archaeological data concerning a catastrophe inferred to have occurred in the Middle East c.2350 BC. She emphasized the importance of high-time-resolution archaeological investigations in the assessment of natural catastrophes on societal collapse, the data in this case indicating the combination of a burnt surface horizon and air blast, consistent with a Tunguska-like fireball, but possibly also a major volcanic event.

The evidence for regional environmental change at about the same time was confirmed and extended by Mike Baillie (Queen’s University Belfast), whose tree-ring analyses of Irish bog oaks showed very significant narrowing of the rings around the year 2345 BC, associated with identified tephra from the Icelandic Hekla 4 volcano, dated to 2310 +/- 20 BC. This suggests a volcanic origin of the c. 2350 BC event identified by Courty, but the period in question is also associated with other events, including floods, the creation of new lakes and even the traditional start of Chinese history! In Baillie’s words, 2345 BC ‘is a classic marker date, i.e. a date which will show up on a regular basis in studies of various kinds’.

Although the flood story as handed down from Noah to his descendant Abraham, may have been a local event around Ireland and the coasts of the Mediterranean Sea, and as far inland to the Euphrates and beyond, it would have been recorded as an event which had flooded their entire known world.

And according to theReport on Second Cambridge Conference,” an article by Mark Bailey,” there were world-wide volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, and destructive floods, which have been recorded from many different civilisations around the globe.

The people of the pre-flood days would not have known that the circumference of the earth was almost 25,000 miles, nor would they have known how many continents and islands there are on this earth. Their known world was limited to the civilised world of those days.

The animals that were taken into the ark, would have been those which were chosen from the animals that had been forced to flee from the rising waters to the higher ground, upon which Noah would have presumably built the ark, which animals would have only been those of his known world that was flooded around the year 2350 BC.

The Ark, which was a rectangular chest-like floating container built of Kopherwood, would of necessity, have to be sealed inside and out with bitumen to stop it from leaking, and Kopherwood is simply any wood that is coated with tar/bitumen. The Ark was subject to tides, currents and wind, having no means of propulsion or steerage, it was guided by the hand of the Lord.

According to the Turin papyrus list, Teti ruled for six months, and Pepi 1, began his rule after Teti, which according to some Egyptologists, was 33 years later, leaving a gap of 33 years between Teti and his successor Pepi, this would support the belief that some catastrophic event occurred around that time, where the evidence shows that Ireland was inundated, around the time of the eruption of Helka4 and is said to have remained desolate for 30 years. A flood of that magnitude would have surely been experienced throughout the Middle East, and perhaps Egypt was desolate and without a king or countrymen for some thirty years also. I believe that the flood that occurred in Noah’ day, around 2,350 BC, was an event that would have been recorded and handed down by a witness of that era, as a world-wide flood.

According to the “Report on Second Cambridge Conference,” an article by Mark Bailey Posted December 15 1997. There were major events occurring around the world at that time, floods, Meteorite strikes, caused by a close encounter with a disintegrating comet, presumable causing catastrophic world-wide tsunami’ etc, and the flood stories are found throughout the countries of the world.

Over 2,000 years before George Smith’s discovery of the deluge tablets in Iraq, there existed an account of the Chaldean [pre-Babylonian] flood myth. Berosus, an ancient Chaldean historian living in the time of Alexander the Great in the 4th century B.C.E, relayed to the Greeks the antiquity of his peoples deluge myth in the following words: “After the death of Ardates, his son Xisuthrus reigned eighteen sari. In his time happened a great deluge; the history of which is thus described.

The deity Cronos appeared to him in a vision, and warned him that upon the fifteenth day of the month Daesius there would be a flood, by which mankind be destroyed. He therefore enjoined him to write a history of the beginning, procedure, and conclusion of all things, and to bury it in the city of the sun at Sippara; and to build a vessel, and take with him into it his friends and relations; and to convey on board everything necessary to sustain life, together with all the different animals, [In the area of his known world] both birds and quadrupeds, and trust himself fearlessly to the deep.

Having asked the Deity whither he was to sail, he was answered, “To the Gods;” upon which he offered up a prayer for the good of mankind. He then obeyed the divine admonition and built a vessel five stadia in length, and two in breadth. Into this he put everything which he had prepared, and last of all conveyed into it his wife, his children and his friends. After the flood had been upon the earth, and was in time abated, Xisuthrus sent out birds from the vessel; which finding no food, nor any place whereupon they might rest their feet, returned to him again. After an interval of some days, he sent them forth a second time; and they now returned with their feet tinged with mud. He made a trial a third time with these birds; but they returned to him no more: from whence he judged that the surface of the earth had appeared above the waters.

He therefore made an opening in the vessel, and upon looking out found that it was stranded upon the side of some mountains; upon which he immediately quitted it with his wife, his children, and the pilot. Xisuhrus then paid his adoration to the earth: and having constructed an altar, offered sacrifices to the Gods.”

It should be noted that the account of the deluge relayed in the tablets discovered by George Smith differ only very slightly from Berosus’ account, which differs only slightly from the story handed down by the Chaldean, Abraham, whose father ‘Terah’ was High Priest in the temple of the Chaldean city of Ur.

The flood of Noah didn’t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. Something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time “He walked with God.” Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son ‘Methuselah’ was alive, the judgement of the flood would be withheld, but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means death, and from shalach, which means ‘To Bring’ or ‘To Send Forth.’ Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, ‘His Death Shall Bring.’ And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

Remembering that Abraham was the son of Terah the High priest of the temple in the Chaldean city of Ur, and he was, according to the erroneous Roman OT, 58 when Noah died, but who, according to the Septuagint, was born 822 years after the death of Noah, the question is now asked, could the Chaldean name ‘Arsates’ mean, ‘When he dies it will happen? And could the name ‘Xisuthrus’ have the same meaning as that of the name ‘Noah’, which is, “One who brings relief or comfort?”

The Chaldean month of Daesius, is the 2nd month, which corresponds with the biblical account that it was in the second month that the flood came. But there is a two-day discrepancy: the biblical account is the 17th day, [See Genesis 7: 11.] whereas the other is the 15th day.

These three flood accounts are so similar it becomes obvious that they originated from the one source. Another interesting similarity between the Chaldean deluge story and the one as handed down through the Hebrew, is that before the flood, people lived extraordinary long lives until the god/gods declared that man shall no longer live past a restricted age limit. This signifies that the floods of both cultures mark the same transition in the history of the world, that being, the birth of the modern world.

The more that I am forced to look at the flood accounts, the more I am convinced that some catastrophic event occurred 4,500 years ago, which caused worldwide devastating floods and tsunamis, of which the more accurate account of the flood that devastated the civilized world of that day, can be found in the Hebrew culture that came down from the Chaldean Abraham, and his family, whose language and racial religion have remained intact for over 4,000 years.
TLDR.

What does this have to do with the thread?
 
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