Huge gap between humans and animals

[Polymath257]

The point is that the uniqueness of the human being is planned for and not
the work of the collective chances of the stones.

Stones?

How do you get that it is planned for from the gaps in the fossil record? There are similar gaps in the record of essentially every species. That is because of the irregularity of fossilization.

You are making a leap in logic (that we were planned) without specific evidence for such planning.

 

[Valjean]

I believe it was pre-planned, IOW programmed to be so.

So who or what pre-planned the whole 4B year old project -- and why?
If the goal was a few billion savannah apes running around it seems an awfully lengthy and inefficient procedure.

If you acknowledge that God merely set the process in motion and let everything evolve naturally, what are you arguing? The only subjects still in contention would be theology and abiogenesis.

 

[FearGod]

Stones?

How do you get that it is planned for from the gaps in the fossil record? There are similar gaps in the record of essentially every species. That is because of the irregularity of fossilization.

You are making a leap in logic (that we were planned) without specific evidence for such planning.

The common ancestor should have lived for so long before speciation occurred,
why there's no one fossil for the common ancestor?

 

[Polymath257]

The common ancestor should have lived for so long before speciation occurred,
why there's no one fossil for the common ancestor?

Again, species change over time and fossilization is a rather rare event. How long do you think the common ancestor would have existed before speciation? A million years, maybe?

In fact, given the rate at which the apes were changing, the common ancestor with modern apes would likely have been a short-lived species.

 

[FearGod]

So who or what pre-planned the whole 4B year old project -- and why?
If the goal was a few billion savannah apes running around it seems an awfully lengthy and inefficient procedure.

If you acknowledge that God merely set the process in motion and let everything evolve naturally, what are you arguing? The only subjects still in contention would be theology and abiogenesis.

Do you think we can create a human being if we given a period of 1 billion years to think about it?

 

[Polymath257]

Do you think we can create a human being if we given a period of 1 billion years to think about it?

Again, why is that relevant?

I suspect we could produce an intelligent creature given time intervals like that, yes. We'd probably require much, much less than that, actually. Look at how far we have pushed dogs from the original wolves in just a few thousand years.

 

[Valjean]

The common ancestor should have lived for so long before speciation occurred,
why there's no one fossil for the common ancestor?

Because only one in millions of individuals ever gets fossilized, and only one in millions of those is ever discovered.
Quite likely the ape-prototype wasn't around long before it speciated to better fit its new environment. New environmental conditions send evolution into overdrive.

As Polymath said, fossilization is a rare event. There are always gaps in the fossil record, and when an intermediate species is found you generally get two more gaps.
We're slowly filling in the picture, but don't expect all the fossils to be discovered next week, and don't expect a complete record -- ever.

Again, why is that relevant?

I suspect we could produce an intelligent creature given time intervals like that, yes. We'd probably require much, much less than that, actually. Look at how far we have pushed dogs from the original wolves in just a few thousand years.

I daresay it would take less time than that under the right conditions.
Belyaev's foxes turned into virtual dogs in just 15 generations -- albeit with some human selection. Now they're being marketed as fox-dogs: Russian Foxes - AE Pets International

 

[FearGod]

Because only one in millions of individuals ever gets fossilized, and only one in millions of those is ever discovered.
Quite likely the ape-prototype wasn't around long before it speciated to better fit its new environment. New environmental conditions send evolution into overdrive.

As Polymath said, fossilization is a rare event. There are always gaps in the fossil record, and when an intermediate species is found you generally get two more gaps.
We're slowly filling in the picture, but don't expect all the fossils to be discovered next week, and don't expect a complete record -- ever.

I daresay it would take less time than that under the right conditions.
Belyaev's foxes turned into virtual dogs in just 15 generations -- albeit with some human selection. Now they're being marketed as fox-dogs: Meet Your New Pet, A Domesticated Fox thhttps://www.fastcompany.com/3037451/meet-your-new-pet-a-domesticated-foxere

What prevent us humans with our amazing ability to think to create cats, dogs, wolves,
humans and other living creatures from scratch?

 

[Valjean]

What prevent us humans with our amazing ability to think to create cats, dogs, wolves,
humans and other living creatures from scratch?

Because the chemistry of abiogenesis, unlike the mechanisms of evolution, is not yet well understood -- though once we clarify more of the chemistry we'll likely be able to do it in a much shorter time than Nature took.
Give it time. We've already made considerable progress.

The current limits of technology are not evidence of God. There was a time when almost everything we see around us was beyond our ability and understanding.
God always exists at the frontiers of our understanding, and He's been retreating rapidly over the past couple of centuries.

 

[Bear Wild]

i think you are crossing over.....unique....compared to.....different

I see no such thing as a bee that is unique
they are all the same

we on the other hand......are unique on each occasion

I have a feeling that a bee does not find you or me as unique but can well recognize other bees as unique. Its all about perspective. The word unique can be defined as special in some way. Bees are unique in how they communicate and their social structure and they are different that humans. They are unique and different. We seem more special to ourselves from the human perspective but if you can see them from their umwelt we can see from a greater perspective. Seeing the natural world for all of its uniqueness requires us to open our minds to new ways of viewing the world. The interesting thing is when you do this you can live in a world of complete amazement and awe. It is hard to shed our preconceptions and prejudice but well worth it.

 

[Bear Wild]

What prevent us humans with our amazing ability to think to create cats, dogs, wolves,
humans and other living creatures from scratch?

From scratch? What for?

 

[Thief]

They are unique and different.

so you ARE crossing the line between unique and different

 

[Bear Wild]

so you ARE crossing the line between unique and different

No you can be unique and different without crossing any line. Unique and different have different implications so both can be true. Different humans can be both different and unique. No line crossed.

 

[Valjean]

I have a feeling that a bee does not find you or me as unique but can well recognize other bees as unique. Its all about perspective. The word unique can be defined as special in some way. Bees are unique in how they communicate and their social structure and they are different that humans. They are unique and different. We seem more special to ourselves from the human perspective but if you can see them from their umwelt we can see from a greater perspective. Seeing the natural world for all of its uniqueness requires us to open our minds to new ways of viewing the world. The interesting thing is when you do this you can live in a world of complete amazement and awe. It is hard to shed our preconceptions and prejudice but well worth it.

Thief appears to be a beeist. Isn't that against RF rules?

 

[Polymath257]

What prevent us humans with our amazing ability to think to create cats, dogs, wolves,
humans and other living creatures from scratch?

Well, there are easier ways to produce animals with the characteristics we like: breeding programs have been doing this for millenia. As for humans, it is fairly easy to produce a new human. And the process is fun. But it takes 9 months to get a first copy and another 18 years to get a full adult.

 

[Thief]

No you can be unique and different without crossing any line. Unique and different have different implications so both can be true. Different humans can be both different and unique. No line crossed.

so.....you are as much a chimp as any chimp

 

[Thief]

Thief appears to be a beeist. Isn't that against RF rules?

bee that as it may......

they all look the same to me

 

[Prestor John]

That is correct. I was just making sure that you also realized that your comments were nothing more than unsubstantiated opinion.

There is no need to point out something so glaringly obvious.

 

[Valjean]

bee that as it may......

they all look the same to me

keep in mind that a single bee is not the organism itself. It's a detachable cell in a
superorganism: the hive.
The hive is the organism. Are they all the same?

 

[Bird123]

Why only humans are different than the rest of animals in terms of thinking, talking
and the way of living, no animal can be compared to humans?

Why we can't even see animals in midway between humans and animals in
terms of thinking, talking and the ability to invent ..etc?

How that is explained by science, we can see different kinds of animals horses, donkeys, dogs,
different kind of birds, but why humans are unique?

Humans are most unique in the size of their EGO that tells them they are better than everything else.

Animals are exactly the same as us. We are farther down the road resulting in more capabilities. As I see it, we and animals are all children of God and walking the same path.