Huge gap between humans and animals

[nPeace]

It is selective not accidental thus believe it or not the term natural selection. Selection is not random or accidental. It is an active process selecting the best genetic variation. As changes in genetic presentation form more advances in behavior, protective patterns, utilization of energy/resources and other advantages that will then be selected by natural selection. Nothing accidental.

When you say

It is selective

I suppose "it" is natural selection. So it is not selecting as though it has a brain, or programed like a robot. Correct?
Therefore it selects nothing.
So when you say

It is an active process selecting the best genetic variation

you are not describing natural selection as doing the selecting. A process is something that is taking place, so I don't see that you have explained that evolution is not accidental, because something drives the process, and if what drives the process is random, how is it not accidental?
Is something directing it with purpose?

 

[Bear Wild]

you just conceded the entire discussion....

thank you

No just pointed out the obvious that you missed there as great differences between all animals nothing about humans being so unique which you are wanting so desperately to believe is true.

 

[Bear Wild]

When you say I suppose "it" is natural selection. So it is not selecting as though it has a brain, or programed like a robot. Correct?
Therefore it selects nothing.
So when you say you are not describing natural selection as doing the selecting. A process is something that is taking place, so I don't see that you have explained that evolution is not accidental, because something drives the process, and if what drives the process is random, how is it not accidental?
Is something directing it with purpose?

Yes it is the natural process of life. There is a direction in evolution. To become more efficient, to utilize the resources more effectively, to me better able to reproduce, to be more attractive to a mate, to be more protective of the family. The creative force of nature and life is directing it. Does it have to have a purpose or is enough just to appreciate what it can do? Whatever it is not accidental.

 

[Bear Wild]

not buying that.....

Spirit ...without form ......would be Great

and that is where we are headed

the lesser forms in the physical.....support this form in the physical

I eat the lesser forms
physically

shall we have another thread?
can Spirit consume?

You still have not clarified this post. But then maybe you cants. I am still interested in the phrase " I eat the lesser forms"? "The lesser forms in the physical support this form in the physical" I suspect you are trying to place yourself above others but keeping it cryptic. Which is lesser the one that can support life or the one that can only consume life? Nothing is lesser when we are dependent on each other. That would truly be arrogance without understanding.

 

[Valjean]

OK, selecting what?

Traits, features.

When you say I suppose "it" is natural selection. So it is not selecting as though it has a brain, or programed like a robot. Correct?

No. The process is the same, sans the intention.

So when you say you are not describing natural selection as doing the selecting. A process is something that is taking place, so I don't see that you have explained that evolution is not accidental, because something drives the process, and if what drives the process is random, how is it not accidental?
Is something directing it with purpose?

Natural selection is driving the process, and it selects automatically. No management needed.

When an animal has a litter, the babies are not identical. They have different features -- color, size, fur length, speed, eyesight, &c. If one of these proves useful, in whatever environment the animal finds itself, the animal will be more likely to survive, to eat, or to mate. It's more "fit." It will likely produce and raise more young to maturity than siblings without the useful feature, and its young are more likely to have that feature. Thus, the incidence of that feature in the general population gradually increases. This is evolution by natural selection. No director, no intention, no direction -- all automatic.
Natural selection Click through the section.

 

[FearGod]

Traits, features.

Selecting for better adaptations that give advantages to a species such as improved social pattern with increased brain tissue available for more complex behaviors.

And how the species got the new features before being selected for?
wasn't it by accidental random mutations?

 

[Subduction Zone]

And how the species got the new features before being selected for?
wasn't it by accidental random mutations?

variation is a better term. Calling it "accidental" leads to a misunderstanding of how evolution works.

 

[FearGod]

variation is a better term. Calling it "accidental" leads to a misunderstanding of how evolution works.

Since mutations are random then by accident and chance new features are
acquired before being selected for, IOW natural selection comes later.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Since mutations are random then by accident and chance new features are
acquired before being selected for, IOW natural selection comes later.

Any one particular mutation would be random. So what? You are forgetting that populations evolve, not individuals. Before selection occurs there will be a large range of variations to choose from. Variation WILL occur in any population. That means that they are not "accidental" they are a feature of life.

 

[Valjean]

And how the species got the new features before being selected for?
wasn't it by accidental random mutations?

There are several mechanisms of evolution, mutation is one of them, but In the example I gave it was by gene mixing through sex, producing variation in the offspring -- no mutation involved.
Did you not learn this from my link?

 

[FearGod]

Any one particular mutation would be random. So what? You are forgetting that populations evolve, not individuals. Before selection occurs there will be a large range of variations to choose from. Variation WILL occur in any population. That means that they are not "accidental" they are a feature of life.

We don;t see variations in species, all are copy and paste, generation after generation,
how then they are a feature of life, and assuming it's then why it should be so?

 

[FearGod]

There are several mechanisms of evolution, mutation is one of them, but In the example I gave it was by gene mixing through sex, producing variation in the offspring -- no mutation involved.
Did you not learn this from my link?

Dude, such things are very simple and should be understood by mind.
species may have been evolved by intention which means someone have
planned for it or it just happened to be so without any plan and without any
intention, if the latter isn't by accident and chance then what the heck you call it?

 

[Subduction Zone]

We don;t see variations in species, all are copy and paste, generation after generation,
how then they are a feature of life, and assuming it's then why it should be so?

Wow! We see variation in almost all species. If there was no variation there would be no need for genetic matching of people waiting for organ transplants.

variation exists. We don't all run at the same speed. We don't all have the same ability to lift weights. Name and trait and it will be varied.

 

[FearGod]

Wow! We see variation in almost all species. If there was no variation there would be no need for genetic matching of people waiting for organ transplants.

variation exists. We don't all run at the same speed. We don't all have the same ability to lift weights. Name and trait and it will be varied.

I mean variations in one specific species, such as Homo sapiens, east and west, north and south, generation after generation, no variations within Homo sapiens.

That being explained, then how variations is a feature of life.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I mean variations in one specific species, such as Homo sapiens, east and west, north and south, generation after generation, no variations within Homo sapiens.

That being explained, then how variations is a feature of life.

Sorry, but just because you refuse to understand what variation is does not mean that it does not exist.

Tell me can you safely get a kidney transplant from the first person that walks through the door?

 

[FearGod]

Sorry, but just because you refuse to understand what variation is does not mean that it does not exist.

Tell me can you safely get a kidney transplant from the first person that walks through the door?

Still it's kidney with the same function, being rejected as alien body doesn't have
any relation with the variations causing evolution to occur by natural selection.

 

[Altfish]

When you say I suppose "it" is natural selection. So it is not selecting as though it has a brain, or programed like a robot. Correct?
Therefore it selects nothing.
So when you say you are not describing natural selection as doing the selecting. A process is something that is taking place, so I don't see that you have explained that evolution is not accidental, because something drives the process, and if what drives the process is random, how is it not accidental?
Is something directing it with purpose?

Natural selection doesn't have an 'end goal'.
Every off-spring has mutations, are you the same as your mum or dad? No, there will be differences, I have smaller ears than my Dad but I am taller. If I compare with my Grandfathers I am even more different, the last one I have a photo of is my Great granddad and the difference is even more stark. So the species is changing over time, and those changes are random in so much as you don't know what the changes might be.

But it is then that natural selection comes in. I the changes I've described in my family tree the changes are quite benign and will make little difference although you may argue that me being taller helped me get a mate.
However, let us look at giraffes; in the plains of Africa, food is scarce and the animals that have the longest necks can reach the most food. So when a random mutation gives an off-spring a slightly longer neck that off-spring does well. His brother may have been unlucky and had a mutation that gave him a shorter neck - maybe he died early because of starvation. So only longer necked animals are successful and breed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Still it's kidney with the same function, being rejected as alien body doesn't have
any relation with the variations causing evolution to occur by natural selection.

Of course it is a kidney.

And of course you are wrong again. By admitting there is a difference and you cannot get a kidney transplant from anyone you have admitted to variation. In this topic there is no debate, there is only corrections of incorrect claims by creationists.

 

[FearGod]

Natural selection doesn't have an 'end goal'.
Every off-spring has mutations, are you the same as your mum or dad? No, there will be differences, I have smaller ears than my Dad but I am taller. If I compare with my Grandfathers I am even more different, the last one I have a photo of is my Great granddad and the difference is even more stark. So the species is changing over time, and those changes are random in so much as you don't know what the changes might be.

But it is then that natural selection comes in. I the changes I've described in my family tree the changes are quite benign and will make little difference although you may argue that me being taller helped me get a mate.
However, let us look at giraffes; in the plains of Africa, food is scarce and the animals that have the longest necks can reach the most food. So when a random mutation gives an off-spring a slightly longer neck that off-spring does well. His brother may have been unlucky and had a mutation that gave him a shorter neck - maybe he died early because of starvation. So only longer necked animals are successful and breed.

Yes variations occur, here's the proof

 

[tas8831]

and if you prefer to look in the mirror and convince yourself .....
you are an accident.....

ok....

Why would someone engage in such a silly strawman?

You prefer to look in a mirror and convince yourself that one of many ancient middle eastern tribal deities was actually the One that created the universe from nothing and within 6 -24 hour days created a fully formed adult human male from dust...

OK...