Humans and Chimp, its True...

[Tristesse]

You are equivocating on the definition of evolution. It is hard to have a discussion about evoltion when on one hand you say evolution means chimps and humans are cousins and then on the other hand you say evolution means shots and vaccines. We need to stick to one subject or we will be going around in circles.

I know this is hard for your little creationist mind to grasp, but evolution explains more than just the evolution of humans. It covers a wide range of topics. In fact biology as we know and understand it today doesn't even make sense unless in light of evolution.

 

[Gabethewiking]

Okay, I give it another try.

MoF, as you are the only Creationist responding as of yet, Please, tell me what it is you do not understand and I do my best to explain it, "It is wrong" is not a response nor a rebutal, you need to define what is wrong, be as specific as possible.To correct your earlier definition of what Evolution is, a dogcat doesnot exist because that has nothing to do with evolution, I do not know how to tell you this over and over, but by your own admission and claims, you shown you have no knowledge at all about what Evolution is. I want to explain it to you, if you let me.

Please Ask me something specific instead and I try to explain it as best I can and we go from that point.

I want to refer to my Wife, she was born in a third world country, going to a regular school and yet seem to have more knowledge about even the most basic things compared to you, whom I assumed are American (I have not checked), but clearly from atleast a first world country. Why does my wife understand and ask intelligent questions?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You are equivocating on the definition of evolution. It is hard to have a discussion about evoltion when on one hand you say evolution means chimps and humans are cousins and then on the other hand you say evolution means shots and vaccines. We need to stick to one subject or we will be going around in circles.

This is the fundamental problem. In order to understand evolution meaningfully, one needs to have a certain minimum capacity to comprehend systems, and the relationships and connections within a system. Not every concept is accessible by all people.

Unfortunately, many people do not understand the limitations of their own comprehension abilities.

 

[MSizer]

You have no idea the degree of stubbornness you're up against gabethewalking. His faith is built up like the walls of jerusalem. No reason is permitted inside the gate.

 

[dust1n]

You put up a drawing of the ToE, showing how mankind evolved from something other than mankind. Preposterous. That has never been seen and is imagination.

The Bible is a drawing of Creationism, showing how mankind came into existence from the creation of an un-seeable, un-provable entity that has emotions and wants praise. Preposterous. This is has never been shown and is imagination.

 

[MSizer]

The Bible is a drawing of Creationism, showing how mankind came into existence from the creation of an un-seeable, un-provable entity that has emotions and wants praise. Preposterous. This is has never been shown and is imagination.

I can't believe I missed that. Creationism has never been seen. I can not believe that was sitting around all of this time and I didn't see it. I was missing the point that you're arguing against evolution on the grounds that it can't be seen, when in fact it is creationism that has never been seen. Evolution has been done in test tubes and witnessed in the wild. Creationism has never even once been seen, not even at the micro level.

 

[Tristesse]

I can't believe I missed that. Creationism has never been seen. I can not believe that was sitting around all of this time and I didn't see it. I was missing the point that you're arguing against evolution on the grounds that it can't be seen, when in fact it is creationism that has never been seen. Evolution has been done in test tubes and witnessed in the wild. Creationism has never even once been seen, not even at the micro level.

Ah, but they have "faith" msizer. Whatever that means, see the problem is, is that they admit that they have faith in creation, but they're not happy unless scientists admit that they have "faith" as well.

 

[Gabethewiking]

You put up a drawing of the ToE, showing how mankind evolved from something other than mankind. Preposterous. That has never been seen and is imagination. Whenever we find evidence of man living in the past we always find evidence of them doing things, like building pyramids that we cannot duplicate. How were they that smart we ask. It's because they were intelligent just like us, there is no evidence they evolved from animals.

But that is the thing Man of Faith, it is not Preposterous.

This is not a belief nor an opinion "Evolutionist" hold, it is based upon known facts from various different areas of science. Whatever opinion any of these "Evolutionist" have is irrelevant to the fact of our Evolution, our opinion is not relevant nor does it change the facts we have that we base our knowledge on. If I change my mind tomorrow and become a diehard fundamentalist Creationist, it wont change the fact of our Evolution, reality is the way it is whatever you believe Man of Faith, you need to realize this.

And you are here in a forum that debates Religion, after over 900 posts you should be aware of this. If you do not want to change your mind when evidence is shown you are wrong, you are a sorry excuse for a human being. Accepting ones faults and realize ones errors is a truly good thing to do and makes you respect the world and other people to a much better degree. Most (almost said none) of the "Evolutionists" here would ever deny any facts and pretend that it does "not exist". If you would provide evidence that would show how and why Evolution has worked so far, and that the Creationist "theory" is correct, we would all accept and throw out what we thought was correct like yesterdays newpaper. It would be a difficult thing to do, but after looking at the Evidence you would provide, we would see and understand why our previous knowledge of Evolution worked, why it worked and the new knowledge provided by you and your contemporaries would explain everything.

You would attaine glory and a Nobel Prize, no persecution, no mockery but true amazement by your achievement, and I know money is important to Creationist, you would have that too. But yet, no evidence has evern been supplied and for everyday that goes by we learn more about our Evolution and human and all other animals history.

Your response to this is simple, "You are wrong". Not a very mature nor Brave way to face the world. But it is your decision, it is just sad that many of you want to take down others with you, preventing Medical Science, Destroy our Enviroment and the world and complete lack of Respect for the world we live in, That is why I even bother, you are dangerous individuals and I hope to make a difference.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

But that is the thing Man of Faith, is it not Preposterous.

This is not a belief nor an opinion "Evolutionist" hold, it is based upon known facts from various different areas of science. Whatever opinion any of these "Evolutionist" have is irrelevant to the fact of our Evolution, our opinion is not relevant nor does it change the facts we have that we base our knowledge on. If I change my mind tomorrow and become a diehard fundamentalist Creationist, it wont change the fact of our Evolution, reality is the way it is whatever you believe Man of Faith, you need to realize this.

And you are here in a forum that debates Religion, after over 900 posts you should be aware of this. If you do not want to change your mind when evidence is shown you are wrong, you are a sorry excuse for a human being. Accepting ones faults and realize ones errors is a truly good thing to do and makes you respect the world and other people to a much better degree. Most (almost said none) of the "Evolutionists" here would Deny any facts and pretend that it does "not exist". If you would provide evidence that would show how and why Evolution has worked so far, and that the Creationist "theory" is correct, we would all accept and throw out what we thought was correct like yesterdays newpaper. It would be a difficult thing to do, but after looking at the Evidence you would provide, we would see and understand why our previous knowledge of Evolution worked, why it worked and the knew knowledge provided by you would explain everything.

You would attaine glory and a Nobel Prize, no persecution, no mockery but true amazement by your achievement, and I know money is important to Creationist, you would have that too. But yet, no evidence has evern been supplied and for everyday that goes by we learn more about our Evolution and human and all other animals history.

Your response to this is simple, "You are wrong". Not a very mature nor Brave way to face the world. But it is your decision, it is just sad that many of you want to take down others with you, preventing Medical Science, Destroy our Enviroment and the world and complete lack of Respect for the world we live in, That is why I even bother, you are dangerous individuals and I hope to make a difference.

and any opening in MoF's mind, however small, slams shut.

See, the problem here is that you are arguing against a deeply held belief. You can present all the evidence you like and, if it goes against that belief, it will be discarded without a second thought. It is incredibly hard to change someone's mind and nigh impossible when they don't want it to be changed.

Now, when insults start to fly then you are no longer fighting only belief but pride as well. If you want to try and change someone's mind then avoid insults at all costs.

 

[dust1n]

I can't believe I missed that. Creationism has never been seen. I can not believe that was sitting around all of this time and I didn't see it. I was missing the point that you're arguing against evolution on the grounds that it can't be seen, when in fact it is creationism that has never been seen. Evolution has been done in test tubes and witnessed in the wild. Creationism has never even once been seen, not even at the micro level.

Heh, I just read it and realized his reasoning destroys his own views in the process.

 

[Amill]

98% of all fossils have been discovered. The evidence for evolution is just not there in the fossil record. Random mutation cannot account for increased information. As dogs evolve into new breeds we see that DNA information decreases.

Who told you this lol? If someone was able to find out that 98% of all the fossils had been found they would know where the other 2% are....doh Don't believe everything you hear.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Heh, I just read it and realized his reasoning destroys his own views in the process.

Kind of like shooting a horse in the head that's been dead for a week.

 

[Sunstone]

Who told you this lol? If someone was able to find out that 98% of all the fossils had been found they would know where the other 2% are....doh Don't believe everything you hear.

MoF: Don't believe everything you make up on the spot, either.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

MoF: Don't believe everything you make up on the spot, either.

If you can't believe your own lies, whose can you believe?

 

[Man of Faith]

Ah, but they have "faith" msizer. Whatever that means, see the problem is, is that they admit that they have faith in creation, but they're not happy unless scientists admit that they have "faith" as well.

+1 when it comes to human evolution or anything that cannot be tested.

 

[MSizer]

Who told you this lol? If someone was able to find out that 98% of all the fossils had been found they would know where the other 2% are....doh Don't believe everything you hear.

Yeah, i got a hell of a laugh out of that one too. It's possibly the most absurd claim yet.

 

[Man of Faith]

Okay, I give it another try.

MoF, as you are the only Creationist responding as of yet, Please, tell me what it is you do not understand and I do my best to explain it, "It is wrong" is not a response nor a rebutal, you need to define what is wrong, be as specific as possible.To correct your earlier definition of what Evolution is, a dogcat doesnot exist because that has nothing to do with evolution, I do not know how to tell you this over and over, but by your own admission and claims, you shown you have no knowledge at all about what Evolution is. I want to explain it to you, if you let me.

Please Ask me something specific instead and I try to explain it as best I can and we go from that point.

I want to refer to my Wife, she was born in a third world country, going to a regular school and yet seem to have more knowledge about even the most basic things compared to you, whom I assumed are American (I have not checked), but clearly from atleast a first world country. Why does my wife understand and ask intelligent questions?

Here is my question. Can you post the scientific method as you understand it. Thank you.

 

[Gabethewiking]

Here is my question. Can you post the scientific method as you understand it. Thank you.

You want me to post the scientific method? You mean explain the scientific method? It may be better, that is, more suitable for you to look it up in various (more then one to make sure you do not get a skewed view) Encyclopedias we have as there is alot of information you would need to comprehend.

If we refer to the Scientific Method (TM) we normally are talking about the way we may aquire new knowledge (or correcting) knowledge. We would collect various data and make experimentation and postulate hypotheses, a important aspect of a hypothesesis is that it must be falsifiable, that is, we need to have a way to show it could be wrong, else it has no value and becomes similar to Creationism, a claim. based on nothing.

Most likely others here can explain it better then me, but I think you should check various (plural) other sources so you understand the general concept of it. It depends very much on what field you are working.
The Theory of Evolution, which was postulated by Charles Darwin, is a perfect example of a hypotheses that would easily been refuted if any evidence against it came up. As of yet, no known evidence has ever shown the Theory of Evolution to be wrong. Charles Darwin supplied various numbers of safety-checks inhis Theory that gave the worlds Scientist a chance to prove it wrong if he was not correct, instead of falsifying it, his Theory became confirmed over and over again because of the usage of the Scientific Method.

 

[Man of Faith]

You want me to post the scientific method? You mean explain the scientific method? It may be better, that is, more suitable for you to look it up in various (more then one to make sure you do not get a skewed view) Encyclopedias we have as there is alot of information you would need to comprehend.

If we refer to the Scientific Method (TM) we normally are talking about the way we may aquire new knowledge (or correcting) knowledge. We would collect various data and make experimentation and postulate hypotheses, an important aspect of a hypothesesis is that it must be falsifiable, that is, we need to have a way to show it could be wrong, else it has no value and becomes similar to Creationism, a claim. based on nothing.

Most likely others here can explain it better then me, but I think you should check various (plural) other sources so you understand the general concept of it. It depends very much on what field you are working.

Well I see a problem already. You want to educate me but when I ask a question you send me to the internet. I might go to the wrong place and then we will have to waste time with that. I want to know the step by step scientific method that you agree is how we understand and get facts. We can start there. You can't be afraid of the little ole scientific method can you? Can you not post it so I can see it? I promise that I won't disagree with it. I just want a starting point for our discussion.

 

[Gabethewiking]

Well I see a problem already. You want to educate me but when I ask a question you send me to the internet. I might go to the wrong place and then we will have to waste time with that. I want to know the step by step scientific method that you agree is how we understand and get facts. We can start there. You can't be afraid of the little ole scientific method can you? Can you not post it so I can see it? I promise that I won't disagree with it. I just want a starting point for our discussion.

It is rather that I suspect it is way of wasting my time. Excuse my negative slanted view, but what if I waste hours of time writing and trying to explain these things to you and then you say, as you do to everything else, "No its not true"? I am a little confused what you really want, I gave you a explanation, you ignored it, I also referred you to the internet and various sources as a backup, but you ignored that too.Why wouldn't you ignore anything else? I do not understand what you want, nor do I udnerstand what you mean of being "afraid of the scientific method", if you would give a more detailed post, perhaps we can continue?