"Humans are born as atheists"

[sojourner]

Not even then. My mother teaches first grade and gets rambling fundamentalist Christian children. They may say they are Christian, but really they're just programmed by their parents to understand themselves in such a way.

Correct. A Christian is something one becomes. It's not something one is "made." Becoming is a process that can take a lifetime.

[edit] It has to do with Fowler's stages of spiritual development. Until one reaches the "doubt" stage and chooses non-belief, I don't think one can truly be an atheist. Until that time, one isn't "non-anything." One is exactly what one is -- not what one is not.

 

[Ouroboros]

I've seen this. It's a massive leap for them to assume this is a sacred ritual.

Sure.

I only provided the link to the article because @lovesong asked for it.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
They have to provide evidence as they would require of the Believers of G-d.

Did you believe in god before you were taught about your religion?

I believed in G-d very naturally when I was born, as naturally as I believed in my mother and the father.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
And we know religion is not on their side.

That would depend on the religion.

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim, my religion is Islam.
Regards

 

[1137]

Correct. A Christian is something one becomes. It's not something one is "made." Becoming is a process that can take a lifetime.

[edit] It has to do with Fowler's stages of spiritual development. Until one reaches the "doubt" stage and chooses non-belief, I don't think one can truly be an atheist. Until that time, one isn't "non-anything." One is exactly what one is -- not what one is not.

Huh, I've never heard of Fowler's stages I don't think. Off to google!

 

[sojourner]

paarsurrey said: ↑
They have to provide evidence as they would require of the Believers of G-d.

I believed in G-d very naturally when I was born, as naturally as I believed in my mother and the father.
Regards

Really?! Amazing, since theological concepts require higher cognition that infants are incapable of at that stage of human development. You must be a god!

 

[sojourner]

Huh, I've never heard of Fowler's stages I don't think. Off to google!

Look up James W. Fowler and "stages of faith development." It may shed some light on this whole discussion.

 

[Demonslayer]

No, you weren't "non-fans." You were human beings who were unaware of sports collectives and the concept of fanaticism over them.

I didn't say non-fans, I said not fans. We were not fans. You can't deny that a newborn baby is not a fan of any sports team.

"Non-fan" would imply a sort of negative stance. Like you'd have to understand what being a fan meant, and realize you are the opposite of that. Or it could mean you're an anti-fan...like if I said I'm a non-fan of the New York Yankees, that would mean I dislike them.

But being not a fan is just having no stance or even understanding of sports fandom. That's what a baby is on nearly every level.

 

[Jumi]

Original article: http://www.nature.com/articles/srep22219

The accumulative stone throwing behaviour described here seems to be rare in chimpanzees as it has not been observed during decades of research at long-term field sites across Africa and has not been observed at other PanAf sites (Fig. 1; Supplementary Table 1). This suggests that these initial observations may underestimate the behavioural complexity characteristic of accumulative stone throwing in chimpanzees. The habitual incorporation of stone tools into the ritualized display of chimpanzees is a novel discovery, and according to our data, may be a socially-learned cultural tradition found in limited populations of West African chimpanzees.

Still thought it an interesting observation.

 

[Demonslayer]

Correct. A Christian is something one becomes. It's not something one is "made." Becoming is a process that can take a lifetime.

Yes, this exactly, this is a great way to state it. You need to become a Christian. Before that you aren't one, you have the absence of religion. Expand this to theism in general. A theist is something you become. Until you become a theist, you're an atheist, by definition.

 

[paarsurrey]

Willamena said: ↑
[QUOTE="Willamena, post: 4685589, member: 6319"]Generally agnosticism doesn't mean just "undecided." The agnostic is quite certain about the truth value of the proposed "god": it is unknown, because no such thing is in evidence.[/QUOTE]
Rather they are confused.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

The agnostic is quite certain about the truth value of the proposed "god": it is unknown, because no such thing is in evidence.

I agree with you. The Atheism/Agnosticism do know about G-d, yet they deny.
Regard

 

[1AOA1]

Yes, this exactly, this is a great way to state it. You need to become a Christian.

Only because materialism takes over. But the renunciation of the things of the world lived by the baby in the womb is a life more representative of Christianity / God than materialism.

 

[sojourner]

I didn't say non-fans, I said not fans. We were not fans. You can't deny that a newborn baby is not a fan of any sports team.

"Non-fan" would imply a sort of negative stance. Like you'd have to understand what being a fan meant, and realize you are the opposite of that. Or it could mean you're an anti-fan...like if I said I'm a non-fan of the New York Yankees, that would mean I dislike them.

But being not a fan is just having no stance or even understanding of sports fandom. That's what a baby is on nearly every level.

True, but you don't identify a baby by everything a baby isn't. You identify a baby by what a baby is ... a baby. Not being a fan is already implied in that identity.

 

[sojourner]

Yes, this exactly, this is a great way to state it. You need to become a Christian. Before that you aren't one, you have the absence of religion. Expand this to theism in general. A theist is something you become. Until you become a theist, you're an atheist, by definition.

No, because, in order to be a-theist, you'd have to understand what it is that you're "a." You can't tell me that a baby, who is non-theist by virtue of not being able to cognate such things, is exactly the same as an adult who has made a conscious decision to "not believe." If we don't call rocks "atheist," we don't call babies "atheist." And we don't call rocks "atheist."

 

[paarsurrey]

Really?! Amazing, since theological concepts require higher cognition that infants are incapable of at that stage of human development. You must be a god!

I am no G-d.
I believe/d in G-d as naturally as I believe/d in my mother and father.
Did one not believe/d in one's mother and the father? Please
Regards

 

[Jumi]

G-d always existed.

I know that's what people believe in your religion.

so it is the most relevant question to be asked from the Atheism people.

The question was meaningless to me when I was atheist and still is. Somewhere along the way we became humans we are today, maybe hundred thousand or a few hundred thousand years ago. Religions came later.

 

[Jumi]

I believe/d in G-d as naturally as I believe/d in my mother and father.

But I never believed in any gods. Why is that?

 

[Demonslayer]

I believe/d in G-d as naturally as I believe/d in my mother and father.

No, your mother and father had to teach you about God.

If you were taken away from your mother and father at birth, and a mother and father from a different religion adopted you, you'd have a different God and you'd be equally convinced that that was the real God.

 

[Demonslayer]

No, because, in order to be a-theist, you'd have to understand what it is that you're "a."

I disagree.

And we don't call rocks "atheist."

A rock is not a theist, certainly. So what is a rock?