Sonofason
Well-Known Member
I have greater knowledge that God exists than you have that humans and chimps have a common ancestor. But sadly, neither of us can provide convincing evidence.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Humans did NOT evolve from the common ancestor of Apes
- Thread starter Aman777
- Start date
I have greater knowledge that God exists than you have that humans and chimps have a common ancestor. But sadly, neither of us can provide convincing evidence.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Yeah we pretty much figured you
wouldn't have a relevant reply
to that one.
When the going gets tough change
the subject.
At least you don't disappoint.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
And I figured that you would not, nor ever will provide convincing evidence to support your claims.
Yeah we pretty much figured you
wouldn't have a relevant reply
to that one.
When the going gets tough change
the subject.
At least you don't disappoint.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
No you don't buddy. You have FAITH that god exists, but no knowledge of his existence. That chimps and humans have a common ancestor is evidential - that god exists is not.
You can test their blood and dna doesn't lie. I am as certain of common ape ancestry as I am certain every living mammal came from parents, thats how biology works via procreation.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Sonofason
Imagine two books. Both are identical apart from a few minor spelling differences - we could reliably claim to know that both books have the same source.
Same for hominid (chimp and human) dna - because they are almost identical, we can reliably conclude common ancestry.
Imagine two books. Both are identical apart from a few minor spelling differences - we could reliably claim to know that both books have the same source.
Same for hominid (chimp and human) dna - because they are almost identical, we can reliably conclude common ancestry.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Maybe you can test their blood and dna, but I can't.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Well almost all of it. Two human chromosomes (2p and 2q l think) are fused in chimps into a single chromosome - but apart from that we are identical.
We are closerto chimps than chimps are to gorillas.
Humans diverged more in that we have 46 chromosomes and apes have 48. Regardless the 23 pair of chromosomes we have correspond to the 24 pairs the other great apes have. We need more divergence to not be deemed an ape since the other great apes rival us in intelligence which is observable and testable. The other great apes test positive for self awareness and that is the biggest evidence. Self awareness is a clear evolutionary leap for the great apes.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
How do you know that the two genes have fused together? Is it possible for a geneticist to fuse genes together from two different species? And if so, is it still considered evolution. Is it evolution if it is caused by an unnatural process? How did the genes fuse together? What caused it? When did it happen?
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Well we know that the two genes fused together because they match.
Imagine you have a book, and your friend has two books - which are identical to the first and second half of your single book. Obviously the first and second books your friend has are fused into a single book in your copy.
Ojce it gets to I asking those questions, common ancestry is a given, then it is just a matter how did it do that, and science have explanations for that too. What is going away is any indication that humans are some how more special than the rest of the animal kingdom, we take some advantages and so do they.
RichardParker
Member
Ahm... it's the other way around.
The two chromosomes we still see in chimps are fused in humans. Humans have LESS chromosomes than chimps, because one of ours is two fused of theirs.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Thanks for the correction. I did indeed get it the wrong way about.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
The problem is, the latter is actually demonstrable while the former is not.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Please demonstrate. Please show the exact same chromosomes before and after being fused.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
You can if you go out and get a degree in science.
Anyone can.
Not only that, but if you really were interested enough, you could look at the evidence yourself because such evidence is published for all to see.
RichardParker
Member
We are not talking about genes here, we are talking about entire chromosomes.
And yes, we know that with an extreme amount of certainty.
Because chromosomes have markers, at their ends (telomeres) and at their centers (centromeres).
So, if two fuse you would expect there to be two centromeres in the new chromosome, and also telomeres in the middle.
And in our chromosome #2, this is exactly what we found.
This chromosome makes no sense... unless it is a fused one.
And given that our entire genome looks so similar to the other ape-genomes... except for this one chromosome that we have, which mirrors exactly the two chromosomes we DON'T have anymore, the number of coincidences to explain this without the model of a fusion of the chromosomes become unbelievably high.