I Am A Good Person, Therefore, I'm Going To Heaven!

[savagewind]

It does not change the outcome. Jesus is the way. No one can come to the Father unless they go through Jesus. And if you are dead in your sins, you are separated from God. Unless one believes Jesus is God's Son, and unless one repents, he will perish.

Those are the simple truths taught by Jesus. Accept or reject them.

Like @Deeje you conclude many posts with that, "accept or reject". Why?

I think there is a difference between being dead while alive and being dead while dead. But I do not disagree that Jesus is the way, truth and life and that repentance is necessary to walk the way with truth for life. Isaiah 35:7-8

 

[leibowde84]

You say you know what the Bible claims.
Then would you please tell me what the Bible says the reason was for Jesus dying on the cross, why He went so willingly?

Romans 3:25 says, "...whom God set forth as a propitiation", which means that Jesus was sent as some kind of appeasement to God for our sins, that he basically took the burden on our behalf. But, couldn't God have avoided this by simply forgiving our sins?

 

[katiemygirl]

Romans 3:25 says, "...whom God set forth as a propitiation", which means that Jesus was sent as some kind of appeasement to God for our sins, that he basically took the burden on our behalf. But, couldn't God have avoided this by simply forgiving our sins?

Who am I to question what God did or didn't do?

Your question brings this passage to mind.

Isaiah 55:8-9
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I hear this all the time. "I'm good, therefore I'm going to heaven."

Really?

I would ask, why did Jesus bother to die on the cross then?

Being good or bad has nothing to do with entrance into Heaven.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Romans 3:25 says, "...whom God set forth as a propitiation", which means that Jesus was sent as some kind of appeasement to God for our sins, that he basically took the burden on our behalf. But, couldn't God have avoided this by simply forgiving our sins?

Condemnation is based on law. In order for God to be just, satisfaction of the law is paramount. Forgiveness alone will not satisfy the legal conditions for absolution of sin.

 

[katiemygirl]

Being good or bad has nothing to do with entrance into Heaven.

Agree! We are saved by grace through faith.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Condemnation is based on law. In order for God to be just, satisfaction of the law is paramount. Forgiveness alone will not satisfy the legal conditions for absolution of sin.

If we have two options:

A: crimes go unpunished, and
B: crimes go unpunished and a truly innocent person is tortured to death

B is more unjust than A.

 

[katiemygirl]

Condemnation is based on law. In order for God to be just, satisfaction of the law is paramount. Forgiveness alone will not satisfy the legal conditions for absolution of sin.

Agree!

"Not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of the Father who is in heaven."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Agree!

"Not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of the Father who is in heaven."

So salvation through works, then? ;-)

 

[sandy whitelinger]

If we have two options:

A: crimes go unpunished, and
B: crimes go unpunished and a truly innocent person is tortured to death

B is more unjust than A.

Um, maybe it's because I did not sleep well last night but I missed the relevance.

 

[katiemygirl]

So salvation through works, then? ;-)

Salvation is by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8). We will be judged according to what we have done (Rom. 2:6).

Do you disagree with what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21 (quoted in my last post)?

 

[katiemygirl]

Um, maybe it's because I did not sleep well last night but I missed the relevance.

Same here!

 

[leibowde84]

Who am I to question what God did or didn't do?

Your question brings this passage to mind.

Isaiah 55:8-9
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

That's the thing. The Bible was written by imperfect men. Paul didn't even know Jesus while he was alive. Maybe he was right, maybe not. I don't accept any claims simply because they are in Scripture, and I certainly don't have blind faith in Paul. That is why I doubt that the claim Paul made us actually accurate and from God.

That is why I asked for your reasoning, not claims made in scripture.

 

[leibowde84]

Condemnation is based on law. In order for God to be just, satisfaction of the law is paramount. Forgiveness alone will not satisfy the legal conditions for absolution of sin.

But various laws have changed considerably. What about the eating of pork or not working on the sabbath? And Jesus didn't take our place in he'll for eternity.

 

[katiemygirl]

That's the thing. The Bible was written by imperfect men. Paul didn't even know Jesus while he was alive. Maybe he was right, maybe not. I don't accept any claims simply because they are in Scripture, and I certainly don't have blind faith in Paul. That is why I doubt that the claim Paul made us actually accurate and from God.

That is why I asked for your reasoning, not claims made in scripture.

Here is where you are wrong. The Bible was written by the Holy Spirit through men not by men!

God gave you the free will to accept or reject His Word.

I accept the Bible 100%.

You're wrong about Paul. Jesus most certainly was alive when Paul met Him. He is still alive and will forever be!!

Don't shortchange Paul just because he did not meet Jesus when He walked the earth.

If you have chosen to not believe the Bible, I'm curious what you do believe in? Your own wisdom perhaps? I ask that with all due respect.

If you believe in Jesus at all, then you believe the Bible, which is His story. So you pick and choose what to believe and toss the rest out. That's what I meant when I asked if you depend upon your own wisdom for answers. Again, no offense meant.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

But various laws have changed considerably. What about the eating of pork or not working on the sabbath? And Jesus didn't take our place in he'll for eternity.

Of course there are numerous laws in the Bible. Natural law, Mosaic Law, the law of faith. What law you live by is the one you will be judged by. Now for some clarification, the wages of sin is death not eternal punishment.

 

[katiemygirl]

But various laws have changed considerably. What about the eating of pork or not working on the sabbath? And Jesus didn't take our place in he'll for eternity.

Jesus fulfilled the Old Law when He died on the cross. He established the New Covenant. Eating pork and keeping the sabbath were under the Old Law. We are no longer living under the Old Mosaic Law. We live under the new law, the Law of liberty, the New Testament. Jesus said He made everything clean. Acts 10:15

 

[katiemygirl]

Of course there are numerous laws in the Bible. Natural law, Mosaic Law, the law of faith. What law you live by is the one you will be judged by. Now for some clarification, the wages of sin is death not eternal punishment.

If you want to debate the existence of hell and eternal punishment, start another thread please.

 

[Desert Snake]

I hope that Hell is well staffed. They're going to need all the help they can get.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

If you want to debate the existence of hell and eternal punishment, start another thread please.

I was not debating the topic just clarifying the Biblical application of law which came up in context of the op. Please pay attention.