I am a non-believer and have some questions

[Janet Waters]

Actually, I rather suspect that those who die cannot find themselves in any place or state -- they are not, they no longer exist, there is nothing that it is like to be dead -- (or in the words of Monte Python, "This is a dead parrot!")

We are spiritual beings.... experiencing a temporary mortal existence. The mortal body is subject to death, but the spirit is eternal and as such it cannot die. This temporary state of Mortality is only a means to a greater end....it is not the only act....in our eternal story.

Most people may not have had their spirit body leave their mortal body to know about this "life after death." However I have seen and I know what this existence is like. And you know.....that since we are innately spiritual beings....we DO (even as mortals in a mortal body) have the ability to see, those who have gone on to the other-side of death.

There are as many disembodied people walking amongst us, as there are, embodied ones. Some people believe that after a person dies....that they "go up to Heaven." Actually those people "return to God who gave it" in other words they return to spirit form (the state from which that person was originally organized). The mortal body returns to dust (earthly matter) and the spirit returns back to immortal matter (immortality/spiritual dust) which is eternal in nature (which does not evaporate/cannot die).

• Ecclesiastes 12:7
  7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

This earth has at least two dimensions---the mortal/physical and the immortal/spiritual realms. People who die, pass through the veil which separates "life and death" and they continue to stay [here] on the earth (in the earth's spiritual dimension) being around their loved ones until the final judgment. They see us, but most of us do not see them. (Babies who die actually go back to heaven).

I realize to some this might be a scarey thought....but it is just as real as those you know standing right before you. Things are only scarey when they are misunderstood and for most this knowledge is outside of many people's normal experience and/or comfort zone.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I would like to make this point right here for anyone out there to debate. That is, there are other ways to have a loving relationship besides living for someone, serving someone, and catering to their every demand and whim. For example, even though me and my family don't interact much and even though I do not dedicate my life to them, I still fully love them because I display a kind attitude towards them and everything else.

Therefore, this should also apply to the relationship with Christ and God. Just because I don't live for the Lord or believe in him does not mean that we have no loving relationship and that I would go to hell due to me being separated from a loving relationship with him. I just think that is nonsense. I think it is nonsense that the only way I could have a loving relationship with the Lord is through what Christianity says:

"You are a sinner and you must repent, believe, and accept my sacrifice of my son; or go to hell."

I just think there are other ways to have a loving relationship besides that quote. Not to mention, that is not love at all to me in the first place. Love would be something like:

"I will not judge your way of life as sinful, do not expect you to believe in me, and you can live as you want. Just make sure you aren't a cruel person who harms and tortures others. I am a respectful God and I don't judge you."

 

[InChrist]

I would like to make this point right here for anyone out there to debate. That is, there are other ways to have a loving relationship besides living for someone, serving someone, and catering to their every demand and whim. For example, even though me and my family don't interact much and even though I do not dedicate my life to them, I still fully love them because I display a kind attitude towards them and everything else.

Therefore, this should also apply to the relationship with Christ and God. Just because I don't live for the Lord or believe in him does not mean that we have no loving relationship and that I would go to hell due to me being separated from a loving relationship with him. I just think that is nonsense. I think it is nonsense that the only way I could have a loving relationship with the Lord is through what Christianity says:

"You are a sinner and you must repent, believe, and accept my sacrifice of my son; or go to hell."

I just think there are other ways to have a loving relationship besides that quote. Perhaps something like:

"I will not judge your way of life as sinful, do not expect you to believe in me, and you can live as you want. Just make sure you aren't a cruel person who harms and tortures others. I am a respectful God and I don't judge you."

Are you saying that you have never done anything that hurt or harmed anyone at all?

 

[Altfish]

Jesus Christ is our personal Savior he is not an uncaring collective Savior. God determines what is just and merciful based upon LAW as well as our individual circumstances and our personal knowledge about what is right and wrong.

Jesus Christ has paid the PENALITY of sin (which is death and hell) for all those who turn to him, repent, and change their ways. But what of all the trillions of people who have lived in times and places when the true Gospel of Jesus Christ was not available.....are they all damned because of it? It depends on what your interpretation of....damned is....

Damned actually means to be stopped in learning and in personal and spiritual progression. Those who don't have a knowledge of the truth...are damned....in the sense their progression has been stopped. Will they also continue to be in this state after death? Yes but then God's mercy will allow them to be taught that which they didn't have the opportunity to learn while in life. So their progression can start again....only after they look to the Savior and believe on His name. This is the condition one will find themselves in after we leave this mortallife awaiting the FINAL JUDGMENT (where we will be assigned our varied eternal rewards or eternal punishment).



Deathbed repentance is not a way to fool or force God into forgiving our sins. And there are some sins which are not so easily rescinded, by a "I'm sorry." There are also unpardonable sins, one of which is the "sin against the Holy Ghost," and the other can be the issue of murdering innocent blood. (The eternal consequence of King David comes to mind concerning the death of Uriah---which sin was not rescinded even after years of repentance).

A person may attempt to be forgiven of these sins.....but whether or not God forgives is another matter. Ultimately, God knows what is in our heart and he judges us accordingly.



I am sure that conspiring men have used the "punishment of hell"....as a political tactic to control the masses. However hell, in it's varied forms.....is a reality and still exists.

Have you a single scrap of evidence to substantiate any of that?

 

[interminable]

I have stated before that I am a non-believer in Christianity and other religions that pose the risk of going to hell if you do not believe and serve their God. I am here to debate the moral nature of Christianity and those other religions as well as the validity of such religions.

I am in an undecided mindset leaning a bit towards the idea that such religions are fear mongering nonsense, but am not entirely sure which is why I wish to have a debate of my own here. I have read into all the claimed evidence and debates by skeptics and believers and my mindset is an honest, open, undecided mindset. I have truly and honestly tried my best here, but my mindset has to remain undecided and this is an honest mindset I am having here.

Christians, for example, would tell me that is bull because they would claim that I am in denial and only being the fool lying to myself. Now this is an issue that cannot be debated because this is a matter of personal subjective experience. I am in my own mind and only I would know if I were lying to myself or not.

I know that I am not lying to myself. My lack of conviction in Christianity and those other religions is genuine. If, let's pretend, the Christian God were real, then he should understand this and should get me out of hell if I were to go there.

He should of understood that I would of lived my life for him and dedicated my life to him if I believed he were real. Furthermore, if he loves and cares about me so much, then that love and compassion should compel him to try and convince me time and time again through signs and such to try and save me since nothing else has worked to convince me.

What kind of loving person or parent wouldn't take such action and instead just leave their son/daughter to be tormented in hell forever and not get them out? Especially since belief is not a matter of choice and is instead a matter of what your honest open mindset leads you to.

It is as though the Christian God, for example, is saying:

"I am an all loving and all just God. I have had my son sacrificed. So in order for people to be convinced of my existence and of my son's sacrifice, I will just throw some things out there. Namely, the bible that I know many honest open minded people will not be convinced of. But if they still don't believe, then that is just too bad.

Especially for little children who die early and other people in other areas of the world who never got the chance to believe in me. I will not try to convince them any more than this even though I am an all powerful God who is more than capable of trying to do so. So that is all I am going to offer as a means of conviction. So take it or leave it. If you are not convinced and end up in hell, then that is just too bad and I am just going to have to leave you there to suffer for eternity."

So don't you see how such an attitude is not all loving, not all caring/just, and not morally righteous?

Every existent is a sign of his existence.
Just need to be rational and have an open heart.
Besides religion especially Islam is a set of rules. And passing laws without punishment is senseless.

Imagine lawmakers in your country make laws and don't specify any special punishment for rule breakers.
What would happen?
Nobody will observe the laws.
And sometimes even parents can't forgive their children
Imagine your son kills 200000 people in one second. Can u forgive him???

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Are you saying that you have never done anything that hurt or harmed anyone at all?

If I did, then it would just be very basic stuff that is trivial such as getting in an argument. I have never done anything serious to harm myself or others in my life such as stabbing myself or others or anything else of this nature.

 

[Tabu]

I have stated before that I am a non-believer in Christianity and other religions that pose the risk of going to hell if you do not believe and serve their God. I am here to debate the moral nature of Christianity and those other religions as well as the validity of such religions.

I am in an undecided mindset leaning a bit towards the idea that such religions are fear mongering nonsense, but am not entirely sure which is why I wish to have a debate of my own here. I have read into all the claimed evidence and debates by skeptics and believers and my mindset is an honest, open, undecided mindset. I have truly and honestly tried my best here, but my mindset has to remain undecided and this is an honest mindset I am having here.

Christians, for example, would tell me that is bull because they would claim that I am in denial and only being the fool lying to myself. Now this is an issue that cannot be debated because this is a matter of personal subjective experience. I am in my own mind and only I would know if I were lying to myself or not.

I know that I am not lying to myself. My lack of conviction in Christianity and those other religions is genuine. If, let's pretend, the Christian God were real, then he should understand this and should get me out of hell if I were to go there.

He should of understood that I would of lived my life for him and dedicated my life to him if I believed he were real. Furthermore, if he loves and cares about me so much, then that love and compassion should compel him to try and convince me time and time again through signs and such to try and save me since nothing else has worked to convince me.

What kind of loving person or parent wouldn't take such action and instead just leave their son/daughter to be tormented in hell forever and not get them out? Especially since belief is not a matter of choice and is instead a matter of what your honest open mindset leads you to.

It is as though the Christian God, for example, is saying:

"I am an all loving and all just God. I have had my son sacrificed. So in order for people to be convinced of my existence and of my son's sacrifice, I will just throw some things out there. Namely, the bible that I know many honest open minded people will not be convinced of. But if they still don't believe, then that is just too bad.

Especially for little children who die early and other people in other areas of the world who never got the chance to believe in me. I will not try to convince them any more than this even though I am an all powerful God who is more than capable of trying to do so. So that is all I am going to offer as a means of conviction. So take it or leave it. If you are not convinced and end up in hell, then that is just too bad and I am just going to have to leave you there to suffer for eternity."

So don't you see how such an attitude is not all loving, not all caring/just, and not morally righteous?

I can only share BK views and personal experiences , since I had been through a similar living Hell state as you describe .
Religions serve as admonitions , the warnings before falling sick , but in spite if you fall ill these very admonitions annoy you , and they don't seem to lend any helping hand nor provide any cure but demand from you more belief and more devotion and very soon you feel despaired , and start disliking devotion.
You contemplate that if God is my Father , why does He require me to beg for things from Him , and if a bad situation is good for me , why is the good hidden from me, Why I am not able to realize that good. This helpless and painful situation is Hell in itself.
With BK Knowledge I realized that my sorrows were a result of my own faulty reasoning, that I have associated my happiness with material things , My false beliefs that only if my body , my achievements , my relations , my possessions etc. meet certain standards , I would be happy.In that way my remote control for happiness was no longer in my hands .
I also learnt that the original nature of the soul is happiness , and I need to emerge this from within , not look for it in matter (especially when every thing is in a stage of total degradation now).
To be content , to be happy is a decision one has to take , and God wants each soul to be happy , and this is why we refer to Him as " Bestower of Happiness and the Remover of Sorrow", The purifier , The one with whose remembrance the pain experienced by the souls due to purification from past Karmic accounts at these final days of settlement could be reduced and minimized and one can also experience happiness and bliss if one keeps his stage detached from mater and remains connected to the Supreme Soul , which we call RajYog.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

How many of the hundreds of testimonies of those from other cultures who have come to know Christ am I supposed to post on a forum? Besides, anyone who truly cares to read of other examples can find them readily enough.

And similar searches can find hundreds of testimonies of those who converted away from Christianity, either to another religion or to atheism. Nothing proved either way.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I can only share BK views and personal experiences , since I had been through a similar living Hell state as you describe .
Religions serve as admonitions , the warnings before falling sick , but in spite if you fall ill these very admonitions annoy you , and they don't seem to lend any helping hand nor provide any cure but demand from you more belief and more devotion and very soon you feel despaired , and start disliking devotion.
You contemplate that if God is my Father , why does He require me to beg for things from Him , and if a bad situation is good for me , why is the good hidden from me, Why I am not able to realize that good. This helpless and painful situation is Hell in itself.
With BK Knowledge I realized that my sorrows were a result of my own faulty reasoning, that I have associated my happiness with material things , My false beliefs that only if my body , my achievements , my relations , my possessions etc. meet certain standards , I would be happy.In that way my remote control for happiness was no longer in my hands .
I also learnt that the original nature of the soul is happiness , and I need to emerge this from within , not look for it in matter (especially when every thing is in a stage of total degradation now).
To be content , to be happy is a decision one has to take , and God wants each soul to be happy , and this is why we refer to Him as " Bestower of Happiness and the Remover of Sorrow", The purifier , The one with whose remembrance the pain experienced by the souls due to purification from past Karmic accounts at these final days of settlement could be reduced and minimized and one can also experience happiness and bliss if one keeps his stage detached from mater and remains connected to the Supreme Soul , which we call RajYog.

Actually, I don't really wish to debate that post of mine you pointed out. I instead wish to debate these two posts with you and others here:

What I am trying to understand here is that God said that there is no excuse for not believing in him and, therefore, nothing more needs to be done on his part to try and convince others of his existence. But there is plenty of excuse because, as I stated in my opening post, there are plenty of honest open minded people like me who have looked into all the claimed evidence, debates, and the bible and are still not convinced.

This lack of conviction is not due to being some arrogant fool in denial; it is instead due to an honest open mindset. So clearly God would of known ahead of time that there are many open minded people out there who would still not be convinced. Therefore, the very fact that he is not frantic to try anymore to convince others to save them means that he is a lazy God. He is all powerful and he can obviously do so much more to try and convince others besides the flimsy "evidence" he has left for us that doesn't convince many honest open minded people such as me.

But he doesn't do anymore. So the fact that he is so lazy here means he does not care all that much about his human creations. If there were a loving parent in your life, then wouldn't you think that such a parent would not be all that loving and caring if he/she wasn't frantic and didn't do all that he/she could to save you from a hell of torment? Especially if this torment was everlasting. Furthermore, to then just leave you there to be tormented in hell and never get you out would be even more unloving and uncaring.

Anybody out there who would claim that this would still be an all loving and all just God clearly has a screw loose. I think it would obviously be asinine, absurd, and daft to think so. If this is who God truly is and he has a nice, kind, and loving attitude despite his apparent immoral nature, then he would obviously be an asinine, absurd, and daft God. Especially since even little children who die early and people in other parts of the world who never got the chance to hear or believe go to hell as well and never get out.

I would like to make this point right here for anyone out there to debate. That is, there are other ways to have a loving relationship besides living for someone, serving someone, and catering to their every demand and whim. For example, even though me and my family don't interact much and even though I do not dedicate my life to them, I still fully love them because I display a kind attitude towards them and everything else.

Therefore, this should also apply to the relationship with Christ and God. Just because I don't live for the Lord or believe in him does not mean that we have no loving relationship and that I would go to hell due to me being separated from a loving relationship with him. I just think that is nonsense. I think it is nonsense that the only way I could have a loving relationship with the Lord is through what Christianity says:

"You are a sinner and you must repent, believe, and accept my sacrifice of my son; or go to hell."

I just think there are other ways to have a loving relationship besides that quote. Not to mention, that is not love at all to me in the first place. Love would be something like:

"I will not judge your way of life as sinful, do not expect you to believe in me, and you can live as you want. Just make sure you aren't a cruel person who harms and tortures others. I am a respectful God and I don't judge you."

 

[viole]

I have stated before that I am a non-believer in Christianity and other religions that pose the risk of going to hell if you do not believe and serve their God. I am here to debate the moral nature of Christianity and those other religions as well as the validity of such religions.

I am in an undecided mindset leaning a bit towards the idea that such religions are fear mongering nonsense, but am not entirely sure which is why I wish to have a debate of my own here. I have read into all the claimed evidence and debates by skeptics and believers and my mindset is an honest, open, undecided mindset. I have truly and honestly tried my best here, but my mindset has to remain undecided and this is an honest mindset I am having here.

Christians, for example, would tell me that is bull because they would claim that I am in denial and only being the fool lying to myself. Now this is an issue that cannot be debated because this is a matter of personal subjective experience. I am in my own mind and only I would know if I were lying to myself or not.

I know that I am not lying to myself. My lack of conviction in Christianity and those other religions is genuine. If, let's pretend, the Christian God were real, then he should understand this and should get me out of hell if I were to go there.

He should of understood that I would of lived my life for him and dedicated my life to him if I believed he were real. Furthermore, if he loves and cares about me so much, then that love and compassion should compel him to try and convince me time and time again through signs and such to try and save me since nothing else has worked to convince me.

What kind of loving person or parent wouldn't take such action and instead just leave their son/daughter to be tormented in hell forever and not get them out? Especially since belief is not a matter of choice and is instead a matter of what your honest open mindset leads you to.

It is as though the Christian God, for example, is saying:

"I am an all loving and all just God. I have had my son sacrificed. So in order for people to be convinced of my existence and of my son's sacrifice, I will just throw some things out there. Namely, the bible that I know many honest open minded people will not be convinced of. But if they still don't believe, then that is just too bad.

Especially for little children who die early and other people in other areas of the world who never got the chance to believe in me. I will not try to convince them any more than this even though I am an all powerful God who is more than capable of trying to do so. So that is all I am going to offer as a means of conviction. So take it or leave it. If you are not convinced and end up in hell, then that is just too bad and I am just going to have to leave you there to suffer for eternity."

So don't you see how such an attitude is not all loving, not all caring/just, and not morally righteous?

How can you say that? God loves us so much that He sent His only begotten son to sort of die for our sins, whatever that means.

On second thought, I think that sending a cure for children cancer would have been vastly more useful.

Ciao

- viole

P.S. Your screen name is not new to me. Have we met somewhere else?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

How can you say that? God loves us so much that He sent His only begotten son to sort of die for our sins, whatever that means.

On second thought, I think that sending a cure for children cancer would have been vastly more useful.

Ciao

- viole

P.S. Your screen name is not new to me. Have we met somewhere else?

Everybody keeps pointing out my opening post to debate, but that is not the post I actually want to debate. Read my previous post above. Those two quoted replies of mine in this topic are what I wish to debate.

 

[Sonny]

I have stated before that I am a non-believer in Christianity and other religions that pose the risk of going to hell if you do not believe and serve their God. I am here to debate the moral nature of Christianity...

Matt, Christianity is not about going to hell if you don't serve God. When God (Jesus) created Earth His intention was for all mankind, and His other created Beings - Angels, 'aliens', etc- to spend eternity with Him in Heaven, His home. When Lucifer rejected God and tried to de-thrown Him and was kicked out of Heaven God had to create another place "for the devil and his demons". That place has been called hell. Now, when a human rejects or denies God they can't go to Heaven - they didn't want that in life. The only other place for them to go is where the demons are/will be, Lake of Fire (Hell, sorta). God doesnt want to hurt or punish any of us. Our choices decide where WE want to be, where we chose to be for eternity. I hope that helps you see Christianity and God better.

 

[Sonny]

Let's debate the issues and see where that leads us, then. I replied to ur op bc you have some misunderstandings about Christianity's God. My intent was to first, correct one of them, which was folks burn in hell for not serving my God. That is true but I explained the 'why' a bit.
So, tell us one thing (at a time) you'd like to discuss and let's try to satisfy or correct ur current view of it.

PS- I'm coming into this having read only a few posts from of 1.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Please refer to these two posts I have made here because they are what I wish to debate and they have already addressed your point:

What I am trying to understand here is that God said that there is no excuse for not believing in him and, therefore, nothing more needs to be done on his part to try and convince others of his existence. But there is plenty of excuse because, as I stated in my opening post, there are plenty of honest open minded people like me who have looked into all the claimed evidence, debates, and the bible and are still not convinced.

This lack of conviction is not due to being some arrogant fool in denial; it is instead due to an honest open mindset. So clearly God would of known ahead of time that there are many open minded people out there who would still not be convinced. Therefore, the very fact that he is not frantic to try anymore to convince others to save them means that he is a lazy God. He is all powerful and he can obviously do so much more to try and convince others besides the flimsy "evidence" he has left for us that doesn't convince many honest open minded people such as me.

But he doesn't do anymore. So the fact that he is so lazy here means he does not care all that much about his human creations. If there were a loving parent in your life, then wouldn't you think that such a parent would not be all that loving and caring if he/she wasn't frantic and didn't do all that he/she could to save you from a hell of torment? Especially if this torment was everlasting. Furthermore, to then just leave you there to be tormented in hell and never get you out would be even more unloving and uncaring.

Anybody out there who would claim that this would still be an all loving and all just God clearly has a screw loose. I think it would obviously be asinine, absurd, and daft to think so. If this is who God truly is and he has a nice, kind, and loving attitude despite his apparent immoral nature, then he would obviously be an asinine, absurd, and daft God. Especially since even little children who die early and people in other parts of the world who never got the chance to hear or believe go to hell as well and never get out.

I would like to make this point right here for anyone out there to debate. That is, there are other ways to have a loving relationship besides living for someone, serving someone, and catering to their every demand and whim. For example, even though me and my family don't interact much and even though I do not dedicate my life to them, I still fully love them because I display a kind attitude towards them and everything else.

Therefore, this should also apply to the relationship with Christ and God. Just because I don't live for the Lord or believe in him does not mean that we have no loving relationship and that I would go to hell due to me being separated from a loving relationship with him. I just think that is nonsense. I think it is nonsense that the only way I could have a loving relationship with the Lord is through what Christianity says:

"You are a sinner and you must repent, believe, and accept my sacrifice of my son; or go to hell."

I just think there are other ways to have a loving relationship besides that quote. Not to mention, that is not love at all to me in the first place. Love would be something like:

"I will not judge your way of life as sinful, do not expect you to believe in me, and you can live as you want. Just make sure you aren't a cruel person who harms and tortures others. I am a respectful God and I don't judge you."

 

[Sonny]

If 'nothing' is going to convince then why start out with I am undecided? You are already convinced in ur own mind. Wrongly, of course, but still convinced that God doesn't exist. So, what's ur point?

 

[Sonny]

Have you taken into account the numerous facts the Bible has mentioned (plants for mediciines)? Or, the fulfilled prophecies which no other book of religion has? How did you come to ur present mindset?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

If 'nothing' is going to convince then why start out with I am undecided? You are already convinced in ur own mind. Wrongly, of course, but still convinced that God doesn't exist. So, what's ur point?

I am not here to debate the evidence to try and convince me because I know that I will remain undecided and nothing will convince me to believe. However, I am here to debate this whole idea that God is love which I disagree with. That debate was in those two quoted posts I presented to you.

Have you taken into account the numerous facts the Bible has mentioned (plants for mediciines)? Or, the fulfilled prophecies which no other book of religion has? How did you come to ur present mindset?

It's because I don't ever become convinced like you or anyone else. Rather, I keep an open mind the whole 9 yards. In other words, it does not matter what claimed evidence or arguments are presented to me, I will still continue to have an open mind to skeptics as well as believers. But as I said before, I do disagree with the moral standards set by the Christian God as being love and holy/righteous.

 

[Sonny]

I would like to make this point right here for anyone out there to debate. That is, there are other ways to have a loving relationship besides living for someone, serving someone, and catering to their every demand and whim. For example, even though me and my family don't interact much and even though I do not dedicate my life to them, I still fully love them because I display a kind attitude towards them and everything else.

Therefore, this should also apply to the relationship with Christ and God. Just because I don't live for the Lord or believe in him does not mean that we have no loving relationship and that I would go to hell due to me being separated from a loving relationship with him. I just think that is nonsense. I think it is nonsense that the only way I could have a loving relationship with the Lord is through what Christianity says:

"You are a sinner and you must repent, believe, and accept my sacrifice of my son; or go to hell."

I just think there are other ways to have a loving relationship besides that quote. Not to mention, that is not love at all to me in the first place. Love would be something like:

"I will not judge your way of life as sinful, do not expect you to believe in me, and you can live as you want. Just make sure you aren't a cruel person who harms and tortures others. I am a respectful God and I don't judge you."

You seem to be seeking what doesn't exist. You can't love something, especially God, w/o having a relationship with it/Him. The evidence for there being a God is clear and obvious. The question/problem is which god is God. The answer is easy, the Bibles God is God. But,t people always make things harder than they are or don't want to stop living the way they are.
Would you believe in the Bibles God if someone could show you He prophesied Nukes about 2,400 years ago? How about, if He mentioned global warming or massive Meteors striking earth? Or, an Army of 200 million at a time when there was only about 50 million on earth?

 

[David T]

I have stated before that I am a non-believer in Christianity and other religions that pose the risk of going to hell if you do not believe and serve their God. I am here to debate the moral nature of Christianity and those other religions as well as the validity of such religions.

I am in an undecided mindset leaning a bit towards the idea that such religions are fear mongering nonsense, but am not entirely sure which is why I wish to have a debate of my own here. I have read into all the claimed evidence and debates by skeptics and believers and my mindset is an honest, open, undecided mindset. I have truly and honestly tried my best here, but my mindset has to remain undecided and this is an honest mindset I am having here.

Christians, for example, would tell me that is bull because they would claim that I am in denial and only being the fool lying to myself. Now this is an issue that cannot be debated because this is a matter of personal subjective experience. I am in my own mind and only I would know if I were lying to myself or not.

I know that I am not lying to myself. My lack of conviction in Christianity and those other religions is genuine. If, let's pretend, the Christian God were real, then he should understand this and should get me out of hell if I were to go there.

He should of understood that I would of lived my life for him and dedicated my life to him if I believed he were real. Furthermore, if he loves and cares about me so much, then that love and compassion should compel him to try and convince me time and time again through signs and such to try and save me since nothing else has worked to convince me.

What kind of loving person or parent wouldn't take such action and instead just leave their son/daughter to be tormented in hell forever and not get them out? Especially since belief is not a matter of choice and is instead a matter of what your honest open mindset leads you to.

It is as though the Christian God, for example, is saying:

"I am an all loving and all just God. I have had my son sacrificed. So in order for people to be convinced of my existence and of my son's sacrifice, I will just throw some things out there. Namely, the bible that I know many honest open minded people will not be convinced of. But if they still don't believe, then that is just too bad.

Especially for little children who die early and other people in other areas of the world who never got the chance to believe in me. I will not try to convince them any more than this even though I am an all powerful God who is more than capable of trying to do so. So that is all I am going to offer as a means of conviction. So take it or leave it. If you are not convinced and end up in hell, then that is just too bad and I am just going to have to leave you there to suffer for eternity."

So don't you see how such an attitude is not all loving, not all caring/just, and not morally righteous?

Well the heat index is increasing globally so maybe they were right in the first place, if you are not good you are going to go to hell!!!

 

[Sonny]

Now I see. What is more loving than giving ur own life for someone who just raped and brutally murdered ur wife/hubby or kids? God lovelovesso much that He did just that for us. Have you ever done anything akin to that for...anyone? If not, then you don't know the love God has for us. It's hard to understand that which we refuse to even acknowledge, let alone accept.