*[I believe] Atheism is an absurd worldview

[McBell]

From The Varieties of Religious Experience:

Q. What does Religion mean to you?

A. It means nothing; and it seems, so far as I can observe, useless to others. I am sixty-seven years
of age and have resided in X. fifty years, and have been in business forty-five, consequently I have
some little experience of life and men, and some women too, and I find that the most religious and
pious people are as a rule those most lacking in uprightness and morality. The men who do not go
to church or have any religious convictions are the best. Praying, singing of hymns, and
sermonizing are pernicious — they teach us to rely on some supernatural power, when we ought to
rely on ourselves. I teetotally disbelieve in a God. The God-idea was begotten in ignorance, fear,
and a general lack of any knowledge of Nature. If I were to die now, being in a healthy condition
for my age, both mentally and physically, I would just as lief, yes, rather, die with a hearty
enjoyment of music, sport, or any other rational pastime. As a timepiece stops, we die — there
being no immortality in either case.

Q. What comes before your mind corresponding to the words God, Heaven, Angels, etc.?

A. Nothing whatever. I am a man without a religion. These words mean so much mythic bosh.

Q. Have you had any experience which appeared providential?

A. None whatever. There is no agency of the superintending kind. A little judicious observation as
well as knowledge of scientific law will convince any one of this fact.

Q. What things work most strongly on your emotions?

A. Lively songs and music; Pinafore instead of an Oratorio. I like Scott, Burns, Byron,
Longfellow, especially Shakespeare, etc., etc. Of songs, the Star-spangled Banner, America,
Marseillaise, and all moral and soul-stirring songs, but wishy-washy hymns are my detestation. I
greatly enjoy nature, especially fine weather, and until within a few years used to walk Sundays
into the country, twelve miles often, with no fatigue, and bicycle forty or fifty. I have dropped the
bicycle. I never go to church, but attend lectures when there are any good ones. All of my thoughts
and cogitations have been of a healthy and cheerful kind, for instead of doubts and fears I see
things as they are, for I endeavor to adjust myself to my environment. This I regard as the deepest
law. Mankind is a progressive animal. I am satisfied he will have made a great advance over his
present status a thousand years hence.

Q. What is your notion of sin?

A. It seems to me that sin is a condition, a disease, incidental to man’s development not being yet
advanced enough. Morbidness over it increases the disease. We should think that a million of years
hence equity, justice, and mental and physical good order will be so fixed and organized that no one
will have any idea of evil or sin.

Q. What is your temperament?

A. Nervous, active, wide-awake, mentally and physically. Sorry that Nature compels us to sleep at
all.

If we are in search of a broken and a contrite heart, clearly we need not look to this
brother. His contentment with the finite incases him like a lobster-shell and shields him
from all morbid repining at his distance from the Infinite. We have in him an excellent
example of the optimism which may be encouraged by popular science.​

Is this an example of a consistent and happy-minded atheist? Or a contented cow?

counting the hits and ignoring the misses only works with the choir

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Atheists have different worldviews. Buddhists and secular Jews and Raelians are all deitiless and you can hardly say they have the same worldview.

All of them have one thing in common: their worldview does not involve deities. Everything else is so braod that one can't pin point in any common traits but that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My worldview is much more than disbelief in deities.
The same would be true for other heathens too.
Disbelief is only a shared trait....we'd each have other non-shared ones.

If I would describe an atheist would view, it's just a general umbrella for those who see life without deities. What is inside the "pie" can be any ingrediant. The common thread is no deities.

 

[Revoltingest]

If I would describe an atheist would view, it's just a general umbrella for those who see life without deities. What is inside the "pie" can be any ingrediant. The common thread is no deities.

Yup!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A perfect example of atheist superficiality. Thank you. (You really should read what you called "crap," especially the last sentence.)

How is it being superficial to judge a religion based on its teachings, for finding fault with morality that goes no further or deeper than the pages of an ancient text, and for not learning how to think for yourself because you let a book do it for you?
And, I'll repeat that it is crap to believe you have to have religion and/or god to live a good, moral, meaningful life with a purpose. It's not just crap, it's offensive.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

From The Varieties of Religious Experience:

Q. What does Religion mean to you?

A. It means nothing; and it seems, so far as I can observe, useless to others. I am sixty-seven years
of age and have resided in X. fifty years, and have been in business forty-five, consequently I have
some little experience of life and men, and some women too, and I find that the most religious and
pious people are as a rule those most lacking in uprightness and morality. The men who do not go
to church or have any religious convictions are the best. Praying, singing of hymns, and
sermonizing are pernicious — they teach us to rely on some supernatural power, when we ought to
rely on ourselves. I teetotally disbelieve in a God. The God-idea was begotten in ignorance, fear,
and a general lack of any knowledge of Nature. If I were to die now, being in a healthy condition
for my age, both mentally and physically, I would just as lief, yes, rather, die with a hearty
enjoyment of music, sport, or any other rational pastime. As a timepiece stops, we die — there
being no immortality in either case.

Q. What comes before your mind corresponding to the words God, Heaven, Angels, etc.?

A. Nothing whatever. I am a man without a religion. These words mean so much mythic bosh.

Q. Have you had any experience which appeared providential?

A. None whatever. There is no agency of the superintending kind. A little judicious observation as
well as knowledge of scientific law will convince any one of this fact.

Q. What things work most strongly on your emotions?

A. Lively songs and music; Pinafore instead of an Oratorio. I like Scott, Burns, Byron,
Longfellow, especially Shakespeare, etc., etc. Of songs, the Star-spangled Banner, America,
Marseillaise, and all moral and soul-stirring songs, but wishy-washy hymns are my detestation. I
greatly enjoy nature, especially fine weather, and until within a few years used to walk Sundays
into the country, twelve miles often, with no fatigue, and bicycle forty or fifty. I have dropped the
bicycle. I never go to church, but attend lectures when there are any good ones. All of my thoughts
and cogitations have been of a healthy and cheerful kind, for instead of doubts and fears I see
things as they are, for I endeavor to adjust myself to my environment. This I regard as the deepest
law. Mankind is a progressive animal. I am satisfied he will have made a great advance over his
present status a thousand years hence.

Q. What is your notion of sin?

A. It seems to me that sin is a condition, a disease, incidental to man’s development not being yet
advanced enough. Morbidness over it increases the disease. We should think that a million of years
hence equity, justice, and mental and physical good order will be so fixed and organized that no one
will have any idea of evil or sin.

Q. What is your temperament?

A. Nervous, active, wide-awake, mentally and physically. Sorry that Nature compels us to sleep at
all.

If we are in search of a broken and a contrite heart, clearly we need not look to this
brother. His contentment with the finite incases him like a lobster-shell and shields him
from all morbid repining at his distance from the Infinite. We have in him an excellent
example of the optimism which may be encouraged by popular science.​

Is this an example of a consistent and happy-minded atheist? Or a contented cow? I suspect that the “new atheism” is indicative of cows rebelling against the growing realization that reality is much larger than what their physical senses are telling them.

Who cares. The individual quoted speaks for no one. Anyone here could quote any religious text and make a case that deities instruct their followers to be murderous psychopaths.

Is all you have copy/paste pontificating?

You stated man cannot be moral without the guidance of a deity. I would like some proof. Since you believe this to be true, please list the heinous acts you yourself would commit without your godly moral code. If you cannot, then your statement, like so any others, is invalid, inconsistent, and absurd.

 

[Reflex]

Who cares. The individual quoted speaks for no one. Anyone here could quote any religious text and make a case that deities instruct their followers to be murderous psychopaths.

So? Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot rationalized their behavior, too.

You stated man cannot be moral without the guidance of a deity. I would like some proof.

The demand for proof is the last resort for someone who cannot justify their claim.

First, I NEVER appeal to authority, whether it a religious figure, science or book. Second, I NEVER stated that man cannot be moral without a deity; that is something you inferred. To rephrase what was REALLY said: without a shared cosmology that also justifies, informs and guides our actions, man cannot communicate or marshal the forces necessary to create a civilization. To that end, the only thing atheism has to offer is power, politics and turtles all the way down.

Is there any wonder why the number of civilizations built by "free thinkers" is zero?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

So? Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot rationalized their behavior, too.

The demand for proof is the last resort for someone who cannot justify their claim.

First, I NEVER appeal to authority, whether it a religious figure, science or book. Second, I NEVER stated that man cannot be moral without a deity; that is something you inferred. To rephrase what was REALLY said: without a shared cosmology that also justifies, informs and guides our actions, man cannot communicate or marshal the forces necessary to create a civilization. To that end, the only thing atheism has to offer is power, politics and turtles all the way down.

Is there any wonder why the number of civilizations built by "free thinkers" is zero?

The demand for proof is a widely accepted means of verifying one's claim. I'm quite certain if someone claimed you murdered another person, you would ask for proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Your wordplay is just that. It is actually the use of quotes that is the last resort for those with little thought of their own. Quotes to pretend someone famous agrees with the user of the quote, or quotes of the absurd to argue against, because the quote is easily argued, and the quoted aren't there to reply.

Man cannot also build a sewage system without help from more humans, and a communicated plan. Big deal. I fail to see anything profound in your statement... no matter how you wish to spin it. You're stating the obvious. Duh. Okay, any more great copy/paste common sensibilities?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Unfortunately, for the majority of man's history, religion has held power over the decision making... forcefully, and brutally at times, far worse than any local KKK chapter. Man has yet to be left alone to create a civilization from scratch without the imposition of the religious will.

It could be argued that the current state of civility in the modern world has been demonstrated by those who have divorced church and state... essentially stripping the religions of their societal powers.

 

[Reflex]

The demand for proof is a widely accepted means of verifying one's claim.

Not when it's accompanied by "turtles all the way down."

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Not when it's accompanied by "turtles all the way down."

That's a lot of turtle crap.

There are enough references in religious text of the god speaking directly to the man. Proof is that simple. The only thing turtle related is the speed at which the religious wish to get on with offering the proof required.

Simply because you don't know what the final turtle is standing on, doesn't mean you fill the knowledge gap with a deity, and begin wearing funny hats or garb... or begin strange worshipping rituals.

There is a void, this is the answer? No. Without the search for the answer, man and society simply do not evolve. Thankfully, man didn't rely on a God to make fire or electricity either, when those were unknown turtles.

 

[ArtieE]

To rephrase what was REALLY said: without a shared cosmology that also justifies, informs and guides our actions, man cannot communicate or marshal the forces necessary to create a civilization. To that end, the only thing atheism has to offer is power, politics and turtles all the way down.

LOL. Are we supposed to be happy that IS, al-Quaida and Muslim terrorist suicide bombers are theists who have a shared cosmology that also justifies, informs and guides their actions? If that's what theism has to offer you can keep it...

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Even if one was to allow for the existence of a deity, so many have always laid claim to being "the one", and required individual beliefs or rituals in order to be "right" with that God... proof would also be required as to which one it is, and what is the proper hat to be wearing.

The turtles all the way down theory may have been clever a century ago, but thankfully, man has evolved beyond that wordplay, and can accept the unknown being the unknown without mental or societal breakdown.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

LOL. Are we supposed to be happy that IS, al-Quaida and Muslim terrorist suicide bombers are theists who have a shared cosmology that also justifies, informs and guides their actions? If that's what theism has to offer you can keep it...

LOL is right... just wait... are you making assumptions about what he said? You must be in the KKK because you found nothing profound in his copy/paste.

Oh, and Hitler probably rationalized his behaviour. Therefore if you don't believe in a God, you create weird mustaches and *THAT* is proof of God enough for a turtle.

 

[outhouse]

Is there any wonder why the number of civilizations built by "free thinkers" is zero?

Because people are primitive by nature, and when all these civilizations were formed, mythology guided them. The majority of the people alive today believe in mythology.

But I digress, the greatest nation of all was founded on freedom from and for religion. So the most secular nation in its time became the greatest.

 

[outhouse]

Hitler,

We will blame his christian upbringing if we were to sink to this level. We wont. He had his beliefs, it just was not orthodox.

Stalin

Raised a little Christian.

Motivated by power and politics more so then any atheistic agenda.


These are all poor and well know weak and desperate attempts by theist to stereotype atheism in bad light.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My, my. Just full of presumptions. You'd make a good candidate for the KKK.

So, rather than refuting my points, all you can say is I'd make a good candidate for the KKK? (which, by the way, they wouldn't let me in the door) You can't even point out what my "presumptions" are (but, then again, I didn't make any).

The demand for proof is the last resort for someone who cannot justify their claim.

Whenever you make a claim (in this case, the alleged requirement of needing god and religion to be a good/moral person capable of living a meaningful and fulfilled life), the burden of proof falls on you. You make the claim, you must back it up.

 

[Reflex]

LOL. Are we supposed to be happy that IS, al-Quaida and Muslim terrorist suicide bombers are theists who have a shared cosmology that also justifies, informs and guides their actions? If that's what theism has to offer you can keep it...

Better than living as contented cows.

 

[ArtieE]

Better than living as contented cows.

Aren't Christians referred to as sheep and their handlers shepherds? The Lord is my shepherd... lost sheep... you gotta hand it to Christians they know where they stand concerning intelligence... [emoji6]

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Better than living as contented cows.

Yawn.

I could make a cow methane joke about how you can't see it, but you know it's there, just like the believers argue about their God... but it's just fish in a barrel at this point.