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*[I believe] Atheism is an absurd worldview

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OutOfTheDarkness

Member
atanu said:
Well. You only exemplify what I am saying ... But without realising.

The book helps by pointing to the kingdom within. And then some seek within by introversion within one's own intellect. And some keep thinking that the book is an external object.

In fact, no object is external, since all things are in awareness alone.
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It is an external object.

Take your book out of your hands before you can read it all, and you don't know what your internal kingdom is supposed to be about.

It really is that simple, and logical, so the mystical inner Camelot theory comes 100% from your external source... a material possession. Any inner feeling you have is self induced, as the same feeling is felt by Peter Popoff followers... YouTube some of his videos and his magic God water. They have the inner kingdom making them jump up and down too... and he has been proven a total fraud.
 
Midnight Rain

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
Gambit said:
I have already explained that in the original post of this thread.



You'll find it in definition number two.
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I see. They use the term meaningless to simply mean that it is created in a way that has no order or function. If that is all there is to it then there is no problem. It also wouldn't be an insult and it is perfectly reasonable to assume an absurd universe under the second definition. However even then it wouldn't be true as we do have order in the universe. The natural laws seem to function perfectly and thus we do have a Universe of controlled chaos so to speak. Even atheists are not truly absurd in that manner of speaking.
 
Midnight Rain

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
Gambit said:
In the Godless worldview of atheism, there is no free will. Without free will, you cannot create your own purpose. (By the way, creating purpose qualifies as a purpose in and of itself.) In fact, all creativity must be deemed illusory.
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Many believe in free will. In fact there has been great lengths of scientific thought going into why free will actually exists. There is a camp of people who believe free will doesn't exist and there is an even larger camp that does not KNOW that free will does or does not exist. But it is not a requirement of atheism to believe in a lack of free will. Your claim here is what is absurd.
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
Midnight Rain said:
Many believe in free will. In fact there has been great lengths of scientific thought going into why free will actually exists. There is a camp of people who believe free will doesn't exist and there is an even larger camp that does not KNOW that free will does or does not exist. But it is not a requirement of atheism to believe in a lack of free will. Your claim here is what is absurd.
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Free will would imply a nonphysical teleological cause. So, the atheist would have to account for that in a Godless world. Good luck with that endeavor.
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
Substantiate your claim! I suspect it means something else by your definition.
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free will : the belief that acts of free will are caused by inner mental states (willing) of an agent but (a) not by material changes in the brain and (b) not by external stimuli.

(source: pg. 115, "The Harper Collins Dictionary of Philosophy" 2nd Edition)
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Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
Midnight Rain said:
And...? This still doesn't lead from your point A to point B. I get where you think it might but I hope you realize it still doesn't.
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I said "free will" IMPLIES that a nonphysical, teleological cause. It implies this (a) because it is not determined by a prior cause (actually I have already cited other sources that explicitly state that it is non material) and (b) because it is not random. (Something that is strictly random is purposeless.)
 
Gambit

Gambit

Well-Known Member
ArtieE said:
So if there's some god we can't have free will because a god might intervene and stop us...?
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Well, divine intervention would obviously negate your freedom. (I personally don't believe in this type of divine intervention.)
 
Midnight Rain

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
Gambit said:
I said "free will" IMPLIES that a nonphysical, teleological cause. It implies this (a) because it is not determined by a prior cause (actually I have already cited other sources that explicitly state that it is non material) and (b) because it is not random. (Something that is strictly random is purposeless.)
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It does not imply. The two are totally different. While it is TRUE that it implies that forces of the universe such as gravity, electromagnetism, fixed speed of light, ect and the things they govern such as orbits, trajectory of motion, speed ect all work independent of a will. They have nothing forcing them to do that.

However mental cognition the lies that humans have are not governed simply by this. The case has not been made that the cognitive decision making process is innately fixed. There are those that have supposed it but they do so with relatively little solid evidence.
 
Midnight Rain

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
Gambit said:
Well, divine intervention would obviously negate your freedom. (I personally don't believe in this type of divine intervention.)
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Well if an all power god has a perfect plan and everything is according to his will then how could we ever have free will?

Most common answer is that god allows us our own freedom to make our own choices. however if a man runs over a little girl with a car those same people say "everything happens for a reason. God works in mysterious ways". It was his WILL to have the little girl killed from some purpose. It wasn't actually due to the free will of the man who hit her with the car. So did he have free will or not? Was the death of the little girl totally without meaning and can only ever be chalked up to faulty human free will or was it gods plan for someone to learn a lesson by that? If it was gods plan how can you say that he has free will?

If you don't subscribe to this kind of belief at all then feel free to ignore this bit as I don't actually know what your beliefs are but I know the common arguments that I come up against and don't want to put words in your mouth.
 
A

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
Gambit said:
Well, divine intervention would obviously negate your freedom. (I personally don't believe in this type of divine intervention.)
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If I can choose between two things and have a free will I would be able to choose between them with nothing influencing my choice. I can't see how you can ever make a choice with nothing influencing your choice.
 
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