*[I believe] Atheism is an absurd worldview

[ImmortalFlame]

Justified true belief is just that. However, one needs to assume truth before one can believe. A=A is a a priori belief that is justified by its necessity to any systematic ordering which we must assume to be true. Without a justified true belief such as this, we have no system within which to form beliefs.

the difference between justified true belief and plain belief is that justified true belief is justified and true.

You're not making any sense. If a belief has to be a justified true belief in order to be believed, how can there be any such thing as a belief that ISN'T justified true belief? Are you asserting that knowledge and belief are the same thing, because your definition renders the distinction you are making between the two completely absurd.

in order to make sense of any of your experiences they must be ordered. hence, "order to experience."

You've just repeated yourself. I want an explanation of your terms.

a synthetic belief would be a belief derived from experience as opposed to an analytic belief, belief derived from definition.

So beliefs CAN be derived from experience rather than knowledge?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

On what objective basis can "good" be evaluated?

Exactly.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

A proposition (belief/noun) supported by evidence, including relevant knowledge (justified), and genuinely portrayed objectively (as what is actually true).

I understand the distinction. The problem is that George is asserting that knowledge and belief are necessarily the same thing, which renders the definition of justified true belief meaningless.

 

[Willamena]

I understand the distinction. The problem is that George is asserting that knowledge and belief are necessarily the same thing, which renders the definition of justified true belief meaningless.

I don't see that. They are essentially the same, which is supported by JTB. A thing known can't but be believed; justification for a thing believed can be sought. Can always be sought.

 

[Curious George]

You're not making any sense. If a belief has to be a justified true belief in order to be believed, how can there be any such thing as a belief that ISN'T justified true belief? Are you asserting that knowledge and belief are the same thing, because your definition renders the distinction you are making between the two completely absurd.


You've just repeated yourself. I want an explanation of your terms.


So beliefs CAN be derived from experience rather than knowledge?

No, a belief has to be justified and true to be a justified true belief. One can believe something that is neither justified or true, but even this requires a justified true belief from which to start. Justified true belief is knowledge, hence all belief must start with a justified true belief. Even beliefs that are not true or justified must rely on a justified true belief. You cannot get to anything except experience, but that experience cannot even be ordered without knowledge.

By ordered I mean accommodated and assimilated, processed and analyzed. None of your experiences can be organized without a system by which to organize them any organizational system will at least require the a priori knowledge that A=A.

 

[Jiddanand]

well, you should be nominated for the academy awards....

Yay!! Who is going to award the proclaimed King? Kool Up or cool down however you get to it.

 

[Jiddanand]

This topic and thread no longer belongs to me. Unsubscribed!!!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This topic and thread no longer belongs to me. Unsubscribed!!!

What? Threads and topics do not belong to anyone.

 

[Gambit]

What? Threads and topics do not belong to anyone.

This is my thread. I started it.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

This is my thread. I started it.

Ugh. So it's your fault.

This stuff is like intellect acid... I think I feel my brain starting to drip out my ear.

"A belief has to be justified and true, to be a justified true belief" God strike me down because I don't deserve to be in the presence of such wisdom.

Take a day away from the forum to get some clear perspective, and then come back and re-read this... this... stuff.

 

[Gambit]

"A belief has to be justified and true, to be a justified true belief" God strike me down because I don't deserve to be in the presence of such wisdom..

I don't agree with the idea that knowledge is justified true belief. A belief is either is rationally justified or it is not.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is my thread. I started it.

True, but, because this is a public forum that is accessible by anyone with an internet connection, thus making it public domain, it belongs to no one.

 

[ArtieE]

No, a belief has to be justified and true to be a justified true belief. One can believe something that is neither justified or true, but even this requires a justified true belief from which to start. Justified true belief is knowledge, hence all belief must start with a justified true belief. Even beliefs that are not true or justified must rely on a justified true belief. You cannot get to anything except experience, but that experience cannot even be ordered without knowledge.

By ordered I mean accommodated and assimilated, processed and analyzed. None of your experiences can be organized without a system by which to organize them any organizational system will at least require the a priori knowledge that A=A.

So in short belief and knowledge can only come from previous knowledge not previous belief?

 

[outhouse]

This is my thread.

You think what ever you want, no matter how wrong it is.

 

[outhouse]

I don't agree with the idea that knowledge is justified true belief.

And that is fine many people don't follow the ancient epistemology word for word.

 

[Curious George]

So in short belief and knowledge can only come from previous knowledge not previous belief?

No, we build all sorts of logic trains for ourselves. But we need to have a specific type of belief to start these trains. That specific type of belief is called knowledge.

 

[Curious George]

Ugh. So it's your fault.

This stuff is like intellect acid... I think I feel my brain starting to drip out my ear.

"A belief has to be justified and true, to be a justified true belief" God strike me down because I don't deserve to be in the presence of such wisdom.

Take a day away from the forum to get some clear perspective, and then come back and re-read this... this... stuff.

Sometimes basic is necessary.

 

[Curious George]

I don't agree with the idea that knowledge is justified true belief. A belief is either is rationally justified or it is not.

Could a person have a justified belief that is false?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

So in short belief and knowledge can only come from previous knowledge not previous belief?

Uh... knowledge is what you, as an individual, learn. It doesn't make it true. It doesn't make it justified. It doesn't make it a belief.

I have the knowledge of Bigfoot. It doesn't mean I believe it. It doesn't make it true... and it is not justified.

 

[ArtieE]

No, we build all sorts of logic trains for ourselves. But we need to have a specific type of belief to start these trains. That specific type of belief is called knowledge.

But if knowledge is a specific type of belief then we actually know nothing and only believe things...