I believe Satan has brain washed most Christians/people.

[lostwanderingsoul]

Satan may not brainwash people but he controls their thoughts and makes them think they are honoring God but they are really following Satan's ideas

 

[McBell]

Jesus gives pretty strong warning and consequences to those who harm the faith of little ones. .

Unless the children insult a bald man when there is a bear nearby...

 

[InChrist]

Unless the children insult a bald man when there is a bear nearby...

Read the account again and do a little research. It is highly unlikely that innocent little children were wandering unsupervised around the countryside harmlessly teasing a bald man, but more accurately the "children" were a roving gang of youth causing trouble and disrespectfully mocking and threatening a prophet of God.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Read the account again and do a little research. It is highly unlikely that innocent little children were wandering unsupervised around the countryside harmlessly teasing a bald man, but more accurately the "children" were a roving gang of youth causing trouble and disrespectfully mocking and threatening a prophet of God.

2 Kings 2:23-24
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.
It does not suggest or imply they were a "roving gang of youth causing trouble." And even if they were, so what? Are the prophets of god so petty and quick to anger that they can't overlook the actions of children who are probably going to learn better anyways?

 

[McBell]

Read the account again and do a little research. It is highly unlikely that innocent little children were wandering unsupervised around the countryside harmlessly teasing a bald man, but more accurately the "children" were a roving gang of youth causing trouble and disrespectfully mocking and threatening a prophet of God.

that there is NOT some pretty impressive mental gymnastics...
Don't get me wrong, it is mental gymnastics.
Just not very impressive.
Perhaps if I joined your choir, they would more impressive?

 

[InChrist]

2 Kings 2:23-24
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.
It does not suggest or imply they were a "roving gang of youth causing trouble." And even if they were, so what? Are the prophets of god so petty and quick to anger that they can't overlook the actions of children who are probably going to learn better anyways?

If this were a case of Elisha being petty and getting angry to the point of cursing boys in such a violent way then I would understand and agree his behavior was inexcusable, but I don't think such is the case at all. For one thing, it probably wouldn't even be in the scriptures, if that were the case, nor would Elisha be a prophet of God if he had such uncontrollable "anger issues".

I have researched this account before because this is a favorite and repetitive choice of skeptics to use when finding fault with God and/or the Bible.

The account says that Elisha was going to Bethel. Bethel means "house of God" or "place of God" yet the city had become a place of idolatry, sorrow, and wickedness. They needed to hear from the prophet of God. But as Elisha was on his way he was met by this group of boys, which I believe more accurately were young men. If you will notice in the account, 42 of them were mauled by the bears, so there were more than 42, if some were mot mauled. This was no small group of children, but most likely a large group of lawless young men who were taunting, possibly threatening Elisha and trying to prevent him from coming to Bethel to bring the word of the Lord. They were not only in opposition to Elisha, but God Himself as the one who was sending Elisha to Bethel. The text does not go into detail, but the seriousness of the judgment (attack by bears) reveals the seriousness of the crime these youths committed.

 

[McBell]

If this were a case of Elisha being petty and getting angry to the point of cursing boys in such a violent way then I would understand and agree his behavior was inexcusable, but I don't think such is the case at all. For one thing, it probably wouldn't even be in the scriptures, if that were the case, nor would Elisha be a prophet of God if he had such uncontrollable "anger issues".

I have researched this account before because this is a favorite and repetitive choice of skeptics to use when finding fault with God and/or the Bible.

The account says that Elisha was going to Bethel. Bethel means "house of God" or "place of God" yet the city had become a place of idolatry, sorrow, and wickedness. They needed to hear from the prophet of God. But as Elisha was on his way he was met by this group of boys, which I believe more accurately were young men. If you will notice in the account, 42 of them were mauled by the bears, so there were more than 42, if some were mot mauled. This was no small group of children, but most likely a large group of lawless young men who were taunting, possibly threatening Elisha and trying to prevent him from coming to Bethel to bring the word of the Lord. They were not only in opposition to Elisha, but God Himself as the one who was sending Elisha to Bethel. The text does not go into detail, but the seriousness of the judgment (attack by bears) reveals the seriousness of the crime these youths committed.

assume much?

 

[InChrist]

that there is NOT some pretty impressive mental gymnastics...
Don't get me wrong, it is mental gymnastics.
Just not very impressive.
Perhaps if I joined your choir, they would more impressive?

It strikes me as quite the feat of mental gymnastics to imagine a group of over 42 children running around outside the city of Bethel without their parents, when normally in that day and culture families were working together for their livelihood and for these same children to be innocently disrespecting an elder and mocking a prophet of God. You probably are more impressive at mental gymnastics than I am.

 

[InChrist]

assume much?

I don't assume. I like to research and find out more about the history and culture to gain better understanding, rather than read superficially.

 

[McBell]

It strikes me as quite the feat of mental gymnastics to imagine a group of over 42 children running around outside the city of Bethel without their parents, when normally in that day and culture families were working together for their livelihood and for these same children to be innocently disrespecting an elder and mocking a prophet of God. You probably are more impressive at mental gymnastics than I am.

When did I claim the children were innocent?

Is this how you do your "research"?

I am flat out saying the punishment does not fit the crime.
There goes the whole eye for an eye sermon....

You are assuming things not in the scripture.
Thus you are adding much in order to justify it.
Interestingly enough, you have not added anything that justifies the overkill (no pun intended) punishment.

Perhaps you would like to try again?

 

[McBell]

I don't assume.

Post #171 proves otherwise.

 

[InChrist]

When did I claim the children were innocent?

Is this how you do your "research"?

I am flat out saying the punishment does not fit the crime.
There goes the whole eye for an eye sermon....

You are assuming things not in the scripture.
Thus you are adding much in order to justify it.
Interestingly enough, you have not added anything that justifies the overkill (no pun intended) punishment.

Perhaps you would like to try again?

You are free to state flat out what you think, but I don't think you are in a position to determine whether the punishment fit the crime. The text states that Elisha called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord, meaning that it was the power of the Lord which brought the bears to the scene and it was the Lord who determined that this was the punishment which fit the crime. I believe God who sees all things and knows the intent and motives of each person is in a much better position than you or any human being to determine the appropriate consequence for the situation.
I think the reason this account was included in the scriptures and the lesson it had for the residents of the city Bethel and the northern kingdom, which was steeped in idolatry, was that God's message was serious and Elisha was His chosen new messenger. Because of the wickedness which engulfed the northern kingdom and Bethel specifically in this account, I believe this is a picture of the spiritual battle between the power of darkness trying prevent Elisha from entering the city (with the word of God for the people) and the power of God's truth and light. In this instance, God chose to demonstrate His power against those lawless hoodlums who came out in opposition and were likely inspired by the demonic darkness of their idol worship of false gods.

 

[McBell]

You are free to state flat out what you think, but I don't think you are in a position to determine whether the punishment fit the crime. The text states that Elisha called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord, meaning that it was the power of the Lord which brought the bears to the scene and it was the Lord who determined that this was the punishment which fit the crime. I believe God who sees all things and knows the intent and motives of each person is in a much better position than you or any human being to determine the appropriate consequence for the situation.
I think the reason this account was included in the scriptures and the lesson it had for the residents of the city Bethel and the northern kingdom, which was steeped in idolatry, was that God's message was serious and Elisha was His chosen new messenger. Because of the wickedness which engulfed the northern kingdom and Bethel specifically in this account, I believe this is a picture of the spiritual battle between the power of darkness trying prevent Elisha from entering the city (with the word of God for the people) and the power of God's truth and light. In this instance, God chose to demonstrate His power against those lawless hoodlums who came out in opposition and were likely inspired by the demonic darkness of their idol worship of false gods..

I happen to disagree with your god that punishment fit the crime.
Being as I am not a Christian, I am not bound by your gods lacking moral system.
Nor do I give your god, or any other god, a free pass.

one wonders why the Bible goes to such lengths to teach how to correctly judge, but then makes god an exception to the judgement?
Seems to me that your god is the biggest hypocrite there is.so you think that a group of children being mauled by a bear for insulting a bald priest is a "spiritual battle?

Wow.
Just wow.....
I am most appreciative your god has left the building.

Why do you not reply to the fact you are adding to your scriptures?
Isn't there a punishment for that?

 

[Popcorn]

I happen to disagree with your god that punishment fit the crime.
Being as I am not a Christian, I am not bound by your gods lacking moral system.
Nor do I give your god, or any other god, a free pass.

one wonders why the Bible goes to such lengths to teach how to correctly judge, but then makes god an exception to the judgement?
Seems to me that your god is the biggest hypocrite there is.so you think that a group of children being mauled by a bear for insulting a bald priest is a "spiritual battle?

Wow.
Just wow.....
I am most appreciative your god has left the building.

Why do you not reply to the fact you are adding to your scriptures?
Isn't there a punishment for that?

I don't understand, are you offering an alternative interpretation, or do you only seek to contradict any and all interpretations?

 

[JayJayDee]

I don't understand, are you offering an alternative interpretation, or do you only seek to contradict any and all interpretations?

It wouldn't matter what explanation you gave, or how much proof you furnished....if it disagrees with his view, Mestemia would find fault with it.

 

[McBell]

It wouldn't matter what explanation you gave, or how much proof you furnished....if it disagrees with his view, Mestemia would find fault with it.

Not like you would know.
All you do is toss out the same refuted nonsense over and over as though you were not shown why you are flat out wrong.

 

[Paranoid Android]

I believe the people who fostered the Reformation, brought a teaching from Satan, and made people believe it was from God.


Those people made people believe that it took God almost sixteen hundred years to bring people the true Gospel.


All those people did was to misunderstand Paul’s writings. The writings that are very plain and tell people that if they sin they will never go to Heaven, are discounted as if they are speaking to others, not those who believe what the Reformers said.


Yes I believe those people were brain washed by the devil.


(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”


(1 Corinthians 5:11) “What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slanderer, or a drunkard or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that.”

I believe that they messed up when there was more than one Church. All I can say is I am convinced the way I have been taught is the right way. I think a certain class of people got it all wrong, and they will end up..well, you know.

 

[Paranoid Android]

I don’t expect to change anyone.


Also, the Holy Spirit once told me to tell people that no matter who tells them anything about God, be it a priest, bishop, or anyone they were to ask Jesus if it is right or wrong.


I hear Jesus very clearly.

Hmm..Maybe we can have a discussion about your point of view.

 

[JayJayDee]

Not like you would know.
All you do is toss out the same refuted nonsense over and over as though you were not shown why you are flat out wrong.

There was a perfectly good explanation given to you, but look how you responded. Typical.....all negativity.
I don't think you would know a reasonable explanation if you fell over one. If it doesn't agree with what you want to believe, it is automatically rubbish.

Believe whatever you like.....we can actually all do that ya know.....

It will ultimately be revealed who is on the right track and who is not.....I am not the judge and neither are you.....thankfully.

 

[psychoslice]

There was a perfectly good explanation given to you, but look how you responded. Typical.....all negativity.
I don't think you would know a reasonable explanation if you fell over one. If it doesn't agree with what you want to believe, it is automatically rubbish.

Believe whatever you like.....we can actually all do that ya know.....

It will ultimately be revealed who is on the right track and who is not.....I am not the judge and neither are you.....thankfully.

And of course your on the right track lol.