I believe Satan has brain washed most Christians/people.

[InChrist]

That is an assumption based on groundless speculation. We don't even know why that group had gathered.
As I said, what we have is the account provided to us in 2 Kings.
And even if they were teens, or young adults, does "get out of here, baldie," deserve such a gruesome punishment?

I think that God must have seen there was more going on than just some young people calling out, "get out of here, baldie," (the text actually says 'Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!", which has significance) and since God brought the bears against them He must have had reason for doing so and along with determining that this was the deserved punishment.

 

[InChrist]

It is interesting how my point is being completely sidestepped in order to concentrate on the age of the victims.

i do not care if they were full grown adults, the punishment does not fit the crime.

I'm sorry, I did not mean to side-step. I just thought you may be reading other posts, too, where I addressed this ....
They were not only in opposition to Elisha, but God Himself as the one who was sending Elisha to Bethel. The text does not go into detail, but the seriousness of the judgment (attack by bears) reveals the seriousness of the crime these youths committed. But again, I am not expecting you to agree.

 

[McBell]

I'm sorry, I did not mean to side-step. I just thought you may be reading other posts, too, where I addressed this ....
They were not only in opposition to Elisha, but God Himself as the one who was sending Elisha to Bethel. The text does not go into detail, but the seriousness of the judgment (attack by bears) reveals the seriousness of the crime these youths committed. But again, I am not expecting you to agree.

Yet there is nothing but conjecture and assumption in support for your above quoted claim.

 

[InChrist]

Yet there is nothing but conjecture and assumption in support for your above quoted claim.

You may label it as assumption or conjecture. I just acknowledge that I am coming from the place that I trust, as Moses did, that the Judge of all the earth does right...

Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that were in it? Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

So the Lord said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.” Genesis 18;24-26

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think that God must have seen there was more going on than just some young people calling out, "get out of here, baldie," (the text actually says 'Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!", which has significance) and since God brought the bears against them He must have had reason for doing so and along with determining that this was the deserved punishment.

No two people translate the same thing in the same way, so the difference between the KJV and whatever version you are using is negligible since the two different lines mean the same thing.
And if there are all these "reasons," why were they not mentioned? If there was "more going on," why wouldn't God make sure his side of the story was told, rather than leaving it appear he condemned a lot of people, all in one moment, to an agonizing fate?

 

[psychoslice]

No two people translate the same thing in the same way, so the difference between the KJV and whatever version you are using is negligible since the two different lines mean the same thing.
And if there are all these "reasons," why were they not mentioned? If there was "more going on," why wouldn't God make sure his side of the story was told, rather than leaving it appear he condemned a lot of people, all in one moment, to an agonizing fate?

Good thinking.

 

[Ingledsva]

Strongs shows how the same word is used in other verses of 2 Kings.

Hebrew Lexicon :: H5288 (NASB)

It doesn't mean little children. It can mean young men....or children who of an age to know what respect is. It shows the level of parental training and neglect in Israel at the time. No disrespect was permitted even of parents, let alone a prophet of God.

It actually means youngsters under the age of accountability - which is 12. It also means others whom are not accountable=servants, though they probably are underage servants.

Twelve year olds could marry, and go to war.

They had young servants-armor-bearers - younger then 12 - just as medieval knights did. These underage children were in the wars - fighting for their lives when they had to.

However - no matter which way you look at it -

don't you find it a little strange then, that for thousands of years it has been translated little boys? - if it means something else?



*

 

[wizanda]

All those people did was to misunderstand Paul’s writings.

That one line summarizes the whole issue of brainwashed Christians.... Since Paul created Christianity, which completely contradicts Christ; getting people to follow something evil as good, it is clear it started much earlier then you're suggesting.

What is interesting, is anyone who is intelligent enough have seen this to be the case, and have recognized Paul's blatant mistakes.

 

[JayJayDee]

It actually means youngsters under the age of accountability - which is 12. It also means others whom are not accountable=servants, though they probably are underage servants.

Seems strange that if these "children" we're under the age of accountability, that God would hold them accountable.

However - no matter which way you look at it -

don't you find it a little strange then, that for thousands of years it has been translated little boys? - if it means something else?

Translated by whom?

2 Kings 2:23 "Elisha went up from there to Bethel. As he was going up the road, some young people came out of the city. They mocked him: “Get going, Baldy! Get going, Baldy!” (CEB)

2 Kings 2:23 "Elisha left to go up to Beit-El. As he was on his way up the road, some boys came out of the town and began making fun of him. “Go on up, baldy! Go on up, baldy!” (CJB)

2 Kings 2:23 "Then he went up from there to Bethel; as he was going up along the way, young boys came out from the city and mocked at him and said to him, “Go up, baldhead; go up, baldhead!” (Lexham)

2 Kings 2:23 "From Jericho he went to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, a gang of young men from the city began mocking and making fun of him because of his bald head." (TLB)

2 Kings 2:23 "He went up from there to Bethel. As he was traveling up the road, some young boys came out of the city and made fun of him, saying, “Go on up, baldy! Go on up, baldy!” (NET)

2 Kings 2:23 "From there Elisha went up to Bethel. On the way some boys came out of the city and ·made fun of (mocked; jeered at) him. They said to him, “Go ·up too, you baldhead away, baldy! Go ·up too, you baldhead away, baldy!” (EXB)

Even the Complete Jewish Bible translates "boys" not "little children". These others are also speaking about youngsters old enough to know better. Since it was God's representative who was mocked disrespectfully, and it was God who sent the bears, a lesson in respect was in order for any others who might be thinking of going down that path. And what a wake-up call for their parents.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Seems strange that if these "children" we're under the age of accountability, that God would hold them accountable.

God seemed to have no problem holding children accountable when he flooded the earth and destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[Ingledsva]

God seemed to have no problem holding children accountable when he flooded the earth and destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.

Indeed - the inconsistencies of the Bible.

Or killed King David's innocent baby, or the Egyptian Firstborn, etc.

*

 

[JayJayDee]

God seemed to have no problem holding children accountable when he flooded the earth and destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.

You are correct, because God holds the parents as accountable for teaching their children right from wrong. In both of those instances, the parents obviously did not teach their children anything good. Even the young boys in Sodom wanted to have sex with the angels who came to rescue Lot and his family. The inhabitants of the whole city were depraved. (2 Pet 2:7-9)

Noah preached to the people of his time, but no other righteous ones were found among the population. (Gen 6:5-8)

If you come upon a nest of poisonous vipers who have decided to take up residence in your house, do you just rid yourself of the adults and leave the cute babies? What will they grow up to be?

Paul expressed a principle that was demonstrated with his trainee, Timothy who had a unbelieving Greek father.

Speaking about the relationship between believers with unbelieving mates, Paul said at 1 Corinthians 7:14..."For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy."

On what basis were the children of such marriages considered "holy" or spiritually clean in God's eyes? On the basis that they had at least one parent who would teach them God's standards. Timothy's mother and grandmother had taught him "from infancy" about their God, Jehovah. So this indicates that children are judged by the actions of their parents. God knows when a parent is living up to their responsibility to teach and train their children to discern right from wrong.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you come upon a nest of poisonous vipers who have decided to take up residence in your house, do you just rid yourself of the adults and leave the cute babies? What will they grow up to be?

Dealing with that issue doesn't mean I'd kill them.
And again, why did God not first attempt to work with the people of Sodom and Gomorrah before killing them?

 

[JayJayDee]

Indeed - the inconsistencies of the Bible.

Or killed King David's innocent baby, or the Egyptian Firstborn, etc.

What inconsistencies? God is the judge, not any human. Who are we to tell the Creator what to do with his own creation? He created life and he has the right to take it away when he deems it necessary. He does not need our permission to do anything.

David's child was a product of adultery in the house of the king. David had also been responsible for covering up the pregnancy by trying to persuade Bathsheba's husband to sleep with her, so that he could claim the child was not his.
When that failed, he had her husband placed in the forefront of battle so that he would be killed.....Adultery and murder in Israel both carried the death penalty. But God personally judged David by sending the prophet Nathan to counsel him. When David showed genuine remorse, God forgave him, but he did not remove the consequences of his actions. Even though it says that God caused the child to get sick and die, it may mean that God foresaw the event and did not prevent it. David went on to marry Bathsheba and their son Solomon became King of Israel.

With the firstborn of the Egyptians, this was the last of ten plagues brought upon that nation because of Pharaoh's defiance of God's instructions. Had Pharaoh complied with the directive given through Moses, none of those plagues would have happened. Each one was designed to humiliate one of Egypt's gods. Since Phaoaoh himself was viewed as a deity, his firstborn son would have been his successor. It was Pharaoh who was responsible for all that. One defies the instructions of the Creator at his own peril. The consequences often affect others.

Interestingly, there was a vast crowd of Egyptians who exited with the Hebrews when Pharaoh finally let Israel go.
They saw firsthand whose God had the power to overthrow the gods of Egypt. Death to some, meant life to others.

We also have to remember that death to God is not what death is to us. He has the power to reverse it. He can resurrect any who lost their lives in times past....so what is death to him? He even gave his human servants the power to raise the dead.
Jesus will command all the dead to rise when his kingdom comes. (John 5:28, 29)

 

[JayJayDee]

Dealing with that issue doesn't mean I'd kill them.
And again, why did God not first attempt to work with the people of Sodom and Gomorrah before killing them?

As God is a reader of hearts, not just actions, he already could see that the inhabitants of Sodom were incorrigibly wicked. When archeologists have dug through the ruins of Canaanite cities and discovered the depth of the depravity displayed in their artefacts, some wondered why God did not destroy them sooner.

 

[Ingledsva]

Seems strange that if these "children" we're under the age of accountability, that God would hold them accountable.

ING - God didn't do anything! The Sorcerer cast a spell in the name of his God, which was common practice for ALL of the nations in the area.

Translated by whom?

2 Kings 2:23 "Elisha went up from there to Bethel. As he was going up the road, some young people came out of the city. They mocked him: “Get going, Baldy! Get going, Baldy!” (CEB)

2 Kings 2:23 "Elisha left to go up to Beit-El. As he was on his way up the road, some boys came out of the town and began making fun of him. “Go on up, baldy! Go on up, baldy!” (CJB)

2 Kings 2:23 "Then he went up from there to Bethel; as he was going up along the way, young boys came out from the city and mocked at him and said to him, “Go up, baldhead; go up, baldhead!” (Lexham)

2 Kings 2:23 "From Jericho he went to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, a gang of young men from the city began mocking and making fun of him because of his bald head." (TLB)

2 Kings 2:23 "He went up from there to Bethel. As he was traveling up the road, some young boys came out of the city and made fun of him, saying, “Go on up, baldy! Go on up, baldy!” (NET)

2 Kings 2:23 "From there Elisha went up to Bethel. On the way some boys came out of the city and ·made fun of (mocked; jeered at) him. They said to him, “Go ·up too, you baldhead away, baldy! Go ·up too, you baldhead away, baldy!” (EXB)

ING - I said thousand years, - these are all modern English translations. The Hebrew texts on this verse do not say these were young MEN.

Even the Complete Jewish Bible translates "boys" not "little children". These others are also speaking about youngsters old enough to know better. Since it was God's representative who was mocked disrespectfully, and it was God who sent the bears, a lesson in respect was in order for any others who might be thinking of going down that path. And what a wake-up call for their parents.

EXPAND HIS to read all replies -

Actually there are two words and the first means little, and the second in almost all cases means child under 12.

See above - God did not send the bears - it does not say that. The Sorcerer cast a spell causing that.

Murder for mocking - is not a lesson. - It shows the heinous disregard for human life of the Hebrew at that time.

Also - I think I know why he was angry - but obviously still no excuse to murder.

He was not only claiming to be a Prophet/Sorcerer, but also that he was the replacement for Elijah, - whom he claimed ASCENDED.

The mocking children are showing disbelief in his stories. They are basically mocking him by saying - if it is true that you are a Prophet/Sorcerer that can cast spells, and you are the New Elijah, then - ASCEND - ASCEND - like Elijah did - and prove it.


2Ki 2:14 And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over.

2Ki 2:15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

*

 

[McBell]

God seemed to have no problem holding children accountable when he flooded the earth and destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.

Or punishing them for the sins of their parents.

 

[Ingledsva]

What inconsistencies? God is the judge, not any human. Who are we to tell the Creator what to do with his own creation? He created life and he has the right to take it away when he deems it necessary. He does not need our permission to do anything.

David's child was a product of adultery in the house of the king. David had also been responsible for covering up the pregnancy by trying to persuade Bathsheba's husband to sleep with her, so that he could claim the child was not his.
When that failed, he had her husband placed in the forefront of battle so that he would be killed.....Adultery and murder in Israel both carried the death penalty. But God personally judged David by sending the prophet Nathan to counsel him. When David showed genuine remorse, God forgave him, but he did not remove the consequences of his actions. Even though it says that God caused the child to get sick and die, it may mean that God foresaw the event and did not prevent it. David went on to marry Bathsheba and their son Solomon became King of Israel.

With the firstborn of the Egyptians, this was the last of ten plagues brought upon that nation because of Pharaoh's defiance of God's instructions. Had Pharaoh complied with the directive given through Moses, none of those plagues would have happened. Each one was designed to humiliate one of Egypt's gods. Since Phaoaoh himself was viewed as a deity, his firstborn son would have been his successor. It was Pharaoh who was responsible for all that. One defies the instructions of the Creator at his own peril. The consequences often affect others.

Interestingly, there was a vast crowd of Egyptians who exited with the Hebrews when Pharaoh finally let Israel go.
They saw firsthand whose God had the power to overthrow the gods of Egypt. Death to some, meant life to others.

We also have to remember that death to God is not what death is to us. He has the power to reverse it. He can resurrect any who lost their lives in times past....so what is death to him? He even gave his human servants the power to raise the dead.
Jesus will command all the dead to rise when his kingdom comes. (John 5:28, 29)

You are making excuses for your God murdering the innocent.

David's baby is no responsible for his parent's crimes, - and I will add that the criminal lived, - and is considered a hero.

Babies are not responsible for the Pharaoh's crimes - especially when YHVH says he is going to make it so Pharaoh can't let them go!

In the flood story - millions of innocent children would have been killed.

I would never follow a "God" like this.

*

 

[McBell]

What inconsistencies? God is the judge, not any human. Who are we to tell the Creator what to do with his own creation? He created life and he has the right to take it away when he deems it necessary. He does not need our permission to do anything.

You are free to bow down licking the feet of whomever you like.

I do not feel the need to suck up to anyone.

 

[JayJayDee]

EXPAND HIS to read all replies -

Actually there are two words and the first means little, and the second in almost all cases means child under 12.

See above - God did not send the bears - it does not say that. The Sorcerer cast a spell causing that.

Murder for mocking - is not a lesson. - It shows the heinous disregard for human life of the Hebrew at that time.

Also - I think I know why he was angry - but obviously still no excuse to murder.

He was not only claiming to be a Prophet/Sorcerer, but also that he was the replacement for Elijah, - whom he claimed ASCENDED.

The mocking children are showing disbelief in his stories. They are basically mocking him by saying - if it is true that you are a Prophet/Sorcerer that can cast spells, and you are the New Elijah, then - ASCEND - ASCEND - like Elijah did - and prove it.


2Ki 2:14 And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over.

2Ki 2:15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

I fail to understand your obsession with spells and sorcery in connection with God's servants when these were forbidden to Israel under penalty of death. (Deut 18:9-12)

Regardless of the age of the children involved in the incident with Elisha....they were old enough to know right from wrong. Servants of Yahweh were not to use their "powers" for their person gain or satisfaction. God would not permit it.

Those who challenged Moses' God-given authority in Israel also suffered the same fate. (Numbers 16)

May I ask what translation of the Bible you use?