I believe Satan has brain washed most Christians/people.

[serp777]

Jesus personally told me.

So did he speak to you in a hallucination or was it more like a feeling? Because how do you know what you felt or saw was accurate? How do you know that it wasn't the devil tricking you with some kind of false image? You don't, that's the point.

 

[Johnlove]

So did he speak to you in a hallucination or was it more like a feeling? Because how do you know what you felt or saw was accurate? How do you know that it wasn't the devil tricking you with some kind of false image? You don't, that's the point.

(John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."

 

[Ingledsva]

You know, when God exiled Satan from Heaven, Satan promised God that he will mislead people until the end of days, in the Islamic belief, that is. It is found in the Quran in Chapter 38, verses 79-83:
He (Satan) said, "My Lord, then reprieve me until the Day they are resurrected." - God: "So you are of those reprieved - Until the Day of the time well-known." - Satan: "By your might, I will surely mislead them all - Except your chosen ones among them."

Hello,

Tanakh does not have Satan tossed out of heaven.

Later groups thought this.

The Qur'an was written later when these ideas were present.

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[skl]

Think education is bad? Education is always bad if the teacher is one who still sins. A sinner is of the devil, and the devil is evil. So if one allows the devil to teach him or her then they are learning to be evil.

This is a medieval attitude and has no place in our modern secular world. Your doctrines are damaging to the minds of children and has negative consequences into adulthood, you and your minority group of radicalised friends should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[outhouse]

Jesus personally told me.

Factually not credible.

As far as we are concerned these could be imaginative voices in your head.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hello,

Tanakh does not have Satan tossed out of heaven.

Later groups thought this.

The Qur'an was written later when these ideas were present.

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Hi there

Understood.

Does the Tanakh clearly specify/tell that Satan was not exiled from Heaven or does it just not mention so and kept quiet about it? If it is the latter, does that mean Satan is in Heaven now?

 

[Johnlove]

This is a medieval attitude and has no place in our modern secular world. Your doctrines are damaging to the minds of children and has negative consequences into adulthood, you and your minority group of radicalised friends should be ashamed of yourselves.

The secular world is controlled by the devil. What God has me share will very defiantly damage what the children of the world have been taught.

I am a Christian, and a Christian is not of the world. We have to live in the world, but are not of the world.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Does the Tanakh clearly specify/tell that Satan was not exiled from Heaven or does it just not mention so and kept quiet about it? If it is the latter, does that mean Satan is in Heaven now?

In Judaism, Satan, or more properly Ha-Satan, is still very much a very loyal and very obedient angel of God. He does not disobey god, he worships only god, and he is a very powerful agent of god. The idea of him rebelling against god and becoming the enemy of god did not come about until Christianity made him an enemy, perhaps to make Christianity more congruent with Pagan religions that typically had an evil counterpart to the slain and resurrected god. Islam apparently kept the idea of Satan being the enemy of God, but changed the reason of rebellion (according to Christianity, Satan rebelled because he wanted to be god).

 

[Ingledsva]

Hi there

Understood.

Does the Tanakh clearly specify/tell that Satan was not exiled from Heaven or does it just not mention so and kept quiet about it? If it is the latter, does that mean Satan is in Heaven now?

As Shadow Wolf said - there is no evil Satan in Tanakh. He is a servant of YHVH.

There is no text about a fall of Satan.

Speculating that it could be so because it isn't written in the negative, goes nowhere fast.

It doesn't say King David was a unicorn either, so I guess this means we can speculate that he was a unicorn.

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[psychoslice]

Satan is like a escape goat, where we chuck everything we don't like about ourselves onto him, and believe we get away from it lol.

 

[Smart_Guy]

In Judaism, Satan, or more properly Ha-Satan, is still very much a very loyal and very obedient angel of God. He does not disobey god, he worships only god, and he is a very powerful agent of god. The idea of him rebelling against god and becoming the enemy of god did not come about until Christianity made him an enemy, perhaps to make Christianity more congruent with Pagan religions that typically had an evil counterpart to the slain and resurrected god. Islam apparently kept the idea of Satan being the enemy of God, but changed the reason of rebellion (according to Christianity, Satan rebelled because he wanted to be god).

As Shadow Wolf said - there is no evil Satan in Tanakh. He is a servant of YHVH.

There is no text about a fall of Satan.

Speculating that it could be so because it isn't written in the negative, goes nowhere fast.

It doesn't say King David was a unicorn either, so I guess this means we can speculate that he was a unicorn.

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Thank you for the information, lovely ladies

What if Christianity is indeed a continuation of Judaism and it came to finish the rest of the story? In my beliefs Satan was indeed an obedient and loyal servant of God. It was his arrogance, which made him stubborn too, that caused his rebellion. That rebellion also does not make him an enemy of God. All Satan did was promising to mislead as much humans as he can. In the verses Satan called God "Lord" and swore by God's might too.

But anyways, it is either all of the above are possible truths or Satan does not exist at all (do I feel that @outhouse has something to say about it? ). Nothing can be taken for granted here. They are all beliefs.

 

[outhouse]

What if Christianity is indeed a continuation of Judaism and it came to finish the rest of the story?

But it is not.

It was another culture who wanted monotheism, exactly like islam.

Both islam an christianity plagiarized the concepts and theology for their own needs, each offering monotheism to cultures outside of Judaism.

Hellenist and Arabic people wanted and found value in monotheism, just at different times.

Judaism was never innocent either, they evolved from Canaanite theology and mythology, influenced by Mesopotamian theology and mythology while in exile there.


Its not about the origins or evolution of religions. The factual importance lies in how the tool is currently being used by its current followers.

 

[Smart_Guy]

But it is not.

It was another culture who wanted monotheism, exactly like islam.

Both islam an christianity plagiarized the concepts and theology for their own needs, each offering monotheism to cultures outside of Judaism.

Hellenist and Arabic people wanted and found value in monotheism, just at different times.

Judaism was never innocent either, they evolved from Canaanite theology and mythology, influenced by Mesopotamian theology and mythology while in exile there.


Its not about the origins or evolution of religions. The factual importance lies in how the tool is currently being used by its current followers.

Yup, that's another possible truth too

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What if Christianity is indeed a continuation of Judaism and it came to finish the rest of the story?

It's presented that way in Christianity, but objectively the NT was factually wrong about Judaism in many regards. I've even heard Jews explain that calling Satan the "god of this world" is blasphemous in Judaism, as is the idea that "another god before YHVY" would be powerful enough to stand up to him is blasphemous. In Judaism, Ha-Satan (literally meaning the adversary, with "satan" being a verb that means to oppose, and "ha" being a formal title) never turned away from or rebelled against God, and throughout the Tanakh he remains a very important angel of god who serves a very important function, but a function that happens to include lots of "dirty work." It isn't until the book of Matthew when Satan tempt Christ that we are presented with this reinvented character who now stands opposed to God rather than aligned with God. The book of Job is perhaps one of the more important in understanding the Jewish view of Ha-Satan and the Christian and Muslim view of Satan, because according to Judaism Ha-Satan was just doing his job and throwing a truck load of obstacles and challenges at Job, challenges that would strengthen him in the end, as opposed to the Christian view that has Satan being a rebellious entity who was challenging God to a wager as to whether or not this highly faithful subject would remain faithful or not after facing severe hardships (I don't know how Islam views this story).

 

[skl]

The secular world is controlled by the devil. What God has me share will very defiantly damage what the children of the world have been taught.

I am a Christian, and a Christian is not of the world. We have to live in the world, but are not of the world.

The devil is not in the real world, he is obviously only part of what must be the make believe world that you live in. My world has real life people and events and we understand that a god does not make rain, hail, thunder or lightning, cause miracles, accidents or luck or allow 20,000 people to die of hunger every single day. We do know what damage people in your make believe world can do however, therefore I suggest you mix with your own kind of people and keep those fantasies to yourselves and please leave the children alone.

 

[serp777]

(John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."

So you know he's telling you the truth because his book tells you that he's telling the truth? That's not circular at all. Hey do you want to buy this cure all disease snake oil? I have this book that I wrote and it says what I say is true. Buy it now for 150,000 dollars. Again how do you know the devil isn't tricking you with this passage and your hallucinations?

 

[Johnlove]

So you know he's telling you the truth because his book tells you that he's telling the truth? That's not circular at all. Hey do you want to buy this cure all disease snake oil? I have this book that I wrote and it says what I say is true. Buy it now for 150,000 dollars. Again how do you know the devil isn't tricking you with this passage and your hallucinations?

All my life I wanted to always do what is right. Right being loving, and obeying God. Until Jesus gave me his Holy Spirit, doing what was right all the time was impossible.


God made it so I have been able to always obey him. The devil/Satan does not want people to obey God.


One knows if he or she is being led by God by the fruit produced from that relationship will always be good. Sinn is rotten fruit.

 

[McBell]

All my life I wanted to always do what is right. Right being loving, and obeying God. Until Jesus gave me his Holy Spirit, doing what was right all the time was impossible.


God made it so I have been able to always obey him. The devil/Satan does not want people to obey God.


One knows if he or she is being led by God by the fruit produced from that relationship will always be good. Sinn is rotten fruit.

So why not stop taking rotten fruit from your god?

 

[outhouse]

The devil/Satan does not want people to obey God.

Concept has no control over anyone outside mythology.

It takes peoples real true actions from mistakes they have personally made, and this terrible ideology you posit, is used as an excuse, a way to blame someone besides that person, so they cannot take some damned responsibility for themselves.

Anyone can have a mythological scapegoat. It takes a man to learn from his mistakes.

 

[Ingledsva]

... The devil/Satan does not want people to obey God. ...

There is no evil Satan in Tanakh. No tossing down, etc.

A much later people, misunderstanding Tanakh, made up that idea.

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