I believe UFO and Aliens are real.

[Subduction Zone]

I have never said I have anything, quite the opposite, it is only when I cease to exist does pure awareness arise.
When the I drops back into existence, there is a memory of the experience, but the I did not experience the transcendent state of mind, nor can it ever.

That is a belief. And there lies your problem. You are reasoning backwards from belief. That is not how reality works. Could you be right? Yes, there is a very small chance of it. But all you have are beliefs. I tend to follow the evidence and thought appears to be a purely physical event. When we did, that is it. That is my belief, but at least I can support it with evidence.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That is a belief. And there lies your problem. You are reasoning backwards from belief. That is not how reality works. Could you be right? Yes, there is a very small chance of it. But all you have are beliefs. I tend to follow the evidence and thought appears to be a purely physical event. When we did, that is it. That is my belief, but at least I can support it with evidence.

What reasoning is it you believe is taking place?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What reasoning is it you believe is taking place?

Apparently bad reasoning.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Apparently bad reasoning.

Fine SZ.

 

[Mock Turtle]

You misunderstand, ultimate reality has never been about knowing, it is about awareness. Awareness exists when the mind is totally still and free from thought.

Your awareness is assisted by science - that can see beyond the Earth, and without such you would be as they were several thousand years ago - just speculating. And the same applies to the small scale, where without science we wouldn't know what makes up matter. And, given we don't actually know it all as yet, your awareness is as limited as most others. And I suppose I should add, we don't actually know all about the human mind either, so there is that to add to the mix.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Your awareness is assisted by science - that can see beyond the Earth, and without such you would be as they were several thousand years ago - just speculating. And the same applies to the small scale, where without science we wouldn't know what makes up matter. And, given we don't actually know it all as yet, your awareness is as limited as most others. And I suppose I should add, we don't actually know all about the human mind either, so there is that to add to the mix.

True, evolutionary unfoldment allows greater understanding and awareness of what and who we are in the context of universal reality. Now consider for a moment that the evolutionary present state of planet Earth's humanity may not the same all over the universe, that there are less evolved entities than man, and more advanced than man, could there be some overlapping awareness that allows some form of communion between contemporary humanity and ET?

 

[Subduction Zone]

True, evolutionary unfoldment allows greater understanding and awareness of what and who we are in the context of universal reality. Now consider for a moment that the evolutionary present state of planet Earth's humanity may not the same all over the universe, that there are less evolved entities than man, and more advanced than man, could there be some overlapping awareness that allows some form of communion between contemporary humanity and ET?

More word salad and errors. Why do you think that man is "more evolved " than other species?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

More word salad and errors. Why do you think that man is "more evolved " than other species?

No thinking is involved, it is an obvious fact, even within the human kingdom, some are more evolved than others!

 

[Subduction Zone]

No thinking is involved, it is an obvious fact, even within the human kingdom, some are more evolved than others!

That is the problem. You did not think. You made a claim that you cannot support. You are not more evolved more than a dog. Humans and dogs are both just as evolved. You might be thinking of another term, but I do not want to put words into your mouth.

 

[Mock Turtle]

True, evolutionary unfoldment allows greater understanding and awareness of what and who we are in the context of universal reality. Now consider for a moment that the evolutionary present state of planet Earth's humanity may not the same all over the universe, that there are less evolved entities than man, and more advanced than man, could there be some overlapping awareness that allows some form of communion between contemporary humanity and ET?

For me, I'm not so prone to speculation as to what might exist so far away from Earth, given that I will be unlikely to know, and I suspect that even if life (intelligent life too, as on Earth) does exist elsewhere, they might be going through/have gone through much the same process as we have had. Still doesn't get me any nearer to the truth though. I would however rather want to see more understanding as to how we do share so much with non-human life here on Earth, and which might be more rewarding to us all as species if we did so.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That is the problem. You did not think. You made a claim that you cannot support. You are not more evolved more than a dog. Humans and dogs are both just as evolved. You might be thinking of another term, but I do not want to put words into your mouth.

You can only speak for yourself doggie, not for more evolved expressions of the cosmos. I don't mean that doggies are not also an expression of the universe, but they are a lessor evolved expression. Weirdly you do seem to understand that everything that exists is an expression of the universe, where you are in error is when you presume that all expressions are equally evolved.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

For me, I'm not so prone to speculation as to what might exist so far away from Earth, given that I will be unlikely to know, and I suspect that even if life (intelligent life too, as on Earth) does exist elsewhere, they might be going through/have gone through much the same process as we have had. Still doesn't get me any nearer to the truth though. I would however rather want to see more understanding as to how we do share so much with non-human life here on Earth, and which might be more rewarding to us all as species if we did so.

'Far from earth'? Reality is one, the prefix 'uni' of the term universe means one, there is no distance. Here...

 

[Subduction Zone]

You can only speak for yourself doggie, not for more evolved expressions of the cosmos. I don't mean that doggies are not also an expression of the universe, but they are a lessor evolved expression. Weirdly you do seem to understand that everything that exists is an expression of the universe, where you are in error is when you presume that all expressions are equally evolved.

Sorry, but you are just wrong. And you didn't answer a reasonable question since you made the claim that humans were "more evolved". This is why using the proper terminology is so important. Compare the DNA of the two species is one more complex than the other? Does one work better? I don't think so, but it is your claim. Look at a cell from each. How would you tell the difference between a human cell and a dog cell. If one was "more evolved" than that other surely you can tell us a difference.

 

[Mock Turtle]

'Far from earth'? Reality is one, the prefix 'uni' of the term universe means one, there is no distance. Here...

In the same manner as Australia is not distant from me? Given I have no knowledge of what goes on there. I'm agnostic because of quantum physics basically.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Sorry, but you are just wrong. And you didn't answer a reasonable question since you made the claim that humans were "more evolved". This is why using the proper terminology is so important. Compare the DNA of the two species is one more complex than the other? Does one work better? I don't think so, but it is your claim. Look at a cell from each. How would you tell the difference between a human cell and a dog cell. If one was "more evolved" than that other surely you can tell us a difference.

Fine, you believe dogs have evolved to equal level of evolution as humans!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

In the same manner as Australia is not distant from me? Given I have no knowledge of what goes on there. I'm agnostic because of quantum physics basically.

No, in the same manner you are not distant from you. In the transcendent state of pure awareness, there is no self- identification with one part of reality as opposed to another part, you are one with all that is. But to be clear, I am not proposing you believe this, it wouldn't mean squat even if you did, it must be realized non-dualistically.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Fine, you believe dogs have evolved to equal level of evolution as humans!

Actually I know that. You should learn the difference between knowledge and belief. Knowledge is demonstrable. If one can show why one holds certain views that qualifies as knowledge. If one cannot and still holds those views that is mere belief. You are making a classic making a classic mistake that many creationist make of thinking that there is a goal to evolution. The "goal" of evolution is only one. Survival.

I asked you reasonable questions that could have possibly shown that one life form was "more evolved" than another but you could not answer them. When someone asks another reasonable questions and that person runs away from those questions it tells us a lot about the level of knowledge of those people in regards to the subject at hand.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, in the same manner you are not distant from you. In the transcendent state of pure awareness, there is no self- identification with one part of reality as opposed to another part, you are one with all that is. But to be clear, I am not proposing you believe this, it wouldn't mean squat even if you did, it must be realized non-dualistically.

You have quite a few unevidenced claims in your posts. For example how would you demonstrate that "pure awareness" even exists? Such a state may not exist. It appears to be fictional.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Actually I know that. You should learn the difference between knowledge and belief. Knowledge is demonstrable. If one can show why one holds certain views that qualifies as knowledge. If one cannot and still holds those views that is mere belief. You are making a classic making a classic mistake that many creationist make of thinking that there is a goal to evolution. The "goal" of evolution is only one. Survival.

I asked you reasonable questions that could have possibly shown that one life form was "more evolved" than another but you could not answer them. When someone asks another reasonable questions and that person runs away from those questions it tells us a lot about the level of knowledge of those people in regards to the subject at hand.

How many times does it need explaining to you, if you want believe dogs are at the same evolutionary stage as humans, go ahead, it's fine by me..

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You have quite a few unevidenced claims in your posts. For example how would you demonstrate that "pure awareness" even exists? Such a state may not exist. It appears to be fictional.

How would you demonstrate to a dog mathematics, or that "mathematics" even exists?, Similarly it is beyond the present evolutionary mental capacity of an unenlightened human to realize 'pure awareness, the only difference is that the unenlightened human actually has the potential to realize pure awareness if they were to make it their life's goal, whereas in the case of a dog, the potential for mathematical expertise is not there due to its present relatively limited state of evolution.