I Can Not Respect A God who Allows Children to Suffer

[Archer]

I consider the explanation for the problem of evil using free will to be an ignorant one, but even if it were true, many innocent people, including children and non-human animals suffer as a result of things not caused by the free will of humans.

Babies were partially crushed and suffocated in collapsed buildings in Haity recently. A God who could allow such a thing is a horrific character IMO, and one to whom I could ever show any respect, no matter the consequences.

How do you justify worshipping a God who allegedly allows this?

Crap happens. God is a source of strength.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Ok. Thats how you feel about it. I wont argue.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

Crap happens. God is a source of strength.

So, why does god allow "crap" to happen to innocent children?

 

[Archer]

Ya know a lot is put off on God and it is utterly preposterous. I hope you can be there to protect your loved ones every moment of their lives. Oh and when you are not I hope you are faced with a trial. Just a trial not punishment or anything like that. There is a lot to it.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

Ya know a lot is put off on God and it is utterly preposterous.

Yes, I mean, god is supposedly omnipotent so it's not like he could prevent these disasters or....oh, wait.

 

[MSizer]

Ya know a lot is put off on God and it is utterly preposterous..

It is utterly prepostrous to conclude that an alleged omnicient omnipotent being can take responsibility? That seems like a tough one to support. Please do.

I hope you can be there to protect your loved ones every moment of their lives. Oh and when you are not I hope you are faced with a trial. Just a trial not punishment or anything like that. There is a lot to it.

I've never claimed to be all knowing and all powerful, so I can't be expected to do such things. God on the other hand, indeed does claim such powers (or at least his believers claim so)

 

[Archer]

It is utterly prepostrous to conclude that an alleged omnicient omnipotent being can take responsibility? That seems like a tough one to support. Please do.



I've never claimed to be all knowing and all powerful, so I can't be expected to do such things. God on the other hand, indeed does claim such powers (or at least his believers claim so)

I don't follow the Church or the Figure Head that some think is God (Pastor). I follow the Bible. Please don't jumble me with those blind followers.

 

[painted wolf]

No need to get snipy. And simply because you dont like my answers, doesnt mean i havent explained my stance in my previous posts.

It's not that I don't like the answers... it's that "Bible says so" is not an explanation, it's a justification.
You have dismissed my points as simply "not wanting to believe" without giving any justification other than "Bible says so".

A book can be read in many ways... if it wasn't so, then there would only be one Christianity.

Maybe i just need to leave. Because apparently, anything i say, words will be put in my mouth. LOL *sigh* Yall have a good one.

no, you just need more practice in explaining yourself to non-Christians. IMHO

wa:do

 

[LyricalDutchess]

It's not that I don't like the answers... it's that "Bible says so" is not an explanation, it's a justification.
You have dismissed my points as simply "not wanting to believe" without giving any justification other than "Bible says so".

A book can be read in many ways... if it wasn't so, then there would only be one Christianity.
no, you just need more practice in explaining yourself to non-Christians. IMHO

wa:do

Ok.

 

[painted wolf]

Ok.

Many of the members here can be very prickly... but you can learn a lot about how to put together a good explanation/argument from them.

It's always hardest to explain your religious views to someone who doesn't share your faith.

wa:do

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Many of the members here can be very prickly... but you can learn a lot about how to put together a good explanation/argument from them.

It's always hardest to explain your religious views to someone who doesn't share your faith.

wa:do

Guess i have to get used to the flow of everyone here.

Im not the brightest, nor very eloquent. But i'll try and explain in more detail with everything. Hard starting in a new place. LOL

Kinda miss my mocofolk.

 

[logician]

I consider the explanation for the problem of evil using free will to be an ignorant one, but even if it were true, many innocent people, including children and non-human animals suffer as a result of things not caused by the free will of humans.

Babies were partially crushed and suffocated in collapsed buildings in Haity recently. A God who could allow such a thing is a horrific character IMO, and one to whom I could ever show any respect, no matter the consequences.

How do you justify worshipping a God who allegedly allows this?

I agree, and from this it can be proven that an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent god cannot exist.

 

[Peacewise]

It is utterly prepostrous to conclude that an alleged omnicient omnipotent being can take responsibility? That seems like a tough one to support. Please do.

He does accept responsibility, by telling us the Law and revealing the benefits of following it and the consequences of not following it.

Of course it is! My point is that you don't choose it. You do choose to "accept him as your saviour" but you have to believe he exists first as a saviour, and you don't choose that.

I chose to believe.

No, you could not! Can you suddenly change what you believe at will? Of course not! You can't decide what you believe and what you don't believe. Come on, do you believe 2 + 2 = 5? Can you choose to believe it? Of course you can't.

Yes anyone can chose to believe what they don't believe. I can chose to believe that 2+2=5, in a variety of ways, simply by redefining the number system, or for example by defining the symbol that is "5" as the concept that is 4.

No, really, they haven't. If we have the ability not to sin, why should it surprise you if some people don't?

If every single person had sinned, that would be an indication that we really don't have the power to keep from sinning, and you've clearly indicated that we do.

Every adult has sinned because nobody is God. For those that refuse to accept sin due to their disbelief, well fair enough chose to not be labelled a sinner, and that is a belief that ignores what the definition of sinner is and is therefore about as consistent as me redefining the symbol 5 as the number 4, which is of course consistent but not particularly worthwhile.

We do have the power to keep from sinning, however from time to time we choose to sin. We remain imperfect in our expression of being sinless. We are a work in progress.

Can a non believer sin? A fascinating question.
sin1
// (say sin)
noun 1. transgression of divine law.
2. an act regarded as such transgression, or any violation, especially a wilful or deliberate one of some religious or moral principle.
3. any serious transgression or offence.
–verb (sinned, sinning)
–verb (i) 4. to do a sinful act.
5. to offend against a principle, standard, etc.
–verb (t) 6. to do or perform sinfully.
7. to bring, drive, etc., by sinning.
–phrase 8. sin against, to take advantage of; abuse or offend. [Middle English; Old English syn(n)]

Dropping the divinity, the religious and settling into the 3rd pt, "any serious transgression or offence" and the 5th point it becomes plain that even without belief in divinity it is possible for a person to sin.

 

[blueman]

I consider the explanation for the problem of evil using free will to be an ignorant one, but even if it were true, many innocent people, including children and non-human animals suffer as a result of things not caused by the free will of humans.

Babies were partially crushed and suffocated in collapsed buildings in Haity recently. A God who could allow such a thing is a horrific character IMO, and one to whom I could ever show any respect, no matter the consequences.

How do you justify worshipping a God who allegedly allows this?[/ We live in a fallen world and as a result, bad things happen to people who are innocent bystanders. Do not blame that on God, blame it on a cursed world tainted by sin. Even in light of unfortunate tragedies, God is right there in the midst with us in our grief and sorrow. He shares our suffering and can relate, because He gave of Himself through Jesus Christ so that we can be redeemed.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Ahh, but who get's to decide what is 'wrong' and what is 'right' if not ourselves?

I guess it will all come out in the wash.

Here is the thing, If it is possible for Satan to exist, then it is feasible for God to exist too.

I believe Satan is very powerful. I further believe that he thinks he can conquer God.

If they both exist, someone will win and someone will lose.

If you are the OP, he thinks we both are delusional.

 

[Reverend Rick]

It may be combinations of things, but all those combinations of things go back to our human nature, and it seems nobody can answer the question of why God made human nature as he did, yet blames us for it.

It is not about being perfect and living up to standards that none of us can.

I believe God does not blame us for being imperfect, I think he made us that way on purpose.

It is more about being forgiven than being "good" IMHO.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Mike, I believe it is arrogant to believe that God owes you an explanation, like if we could explain it to you and you would understand.

This thread is intellectually dishonest. It is a waste of time to debate this with you because you will not be convinced nor will you change how believers think.

What it boils down to is a feeble attempt to mock believers or at worst to p-tize Atheism

I like you very much and enjoy reading some of your threads, but this one is swirling and the turd needs flushed. :sorry1:

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Well, that solves the problem of how evil and suffering came into the world. It was because God meant for evil and suffering to come into the world, and so designed us and the world so that it would.

Why did Jesus need to come?

Smoke I was on my Iphone yesterday and it is a pain in the *** to type long replies on it.
You asked why did Jesus need to come.

Jesus needed to come, because God set the world up so that man would fall, when man falls they will either fall for good and be destroyed or they will be saved. Problem is, once we fell we could never save ourselves. Hence all the sacrifices in the OT pointing to a perfect sacrifice to come.

Since I believe Jesus and God are one and the same, it harmonizes perfectly with the bible in that only God could actually save us. So God in order to show his love for us, took on human form and experienced our pain and punishment for us.

To complicate things more, Jesus did all the suffering and payment BEFORE the world was ever created, and when he came in AD/BC time period it was just a demonstration of what he had already done before the world began. That is completely supported from the language of the bible. There is NO church zero zilch that teaches that, as they are mostly bound by their dogma and theology.

In fact, Abraham or anyone from the OT could not have been saved if Jesus hadn't died before the world began. Salvation is the same for them as it is when Jesus came and demonstrated what he had already done.

Anyway, off topic, but there you go...

 

[Willamena]

It is not about being perfect and living up to standards that none of us can.

I believe God does not blame us for being imperfect, I think he made us that way on purpose.

It is more about being forgiven than being "good" IMHO.

That sounds so wrong. Why do we need to be forgiven for the way that God made us?

On purpose.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

See, though, that just makes your God a lunatic.

He made us sin so we would have a savior.
The reason we need a savior is because we sinned.

The Calvinist God is the biggest rat fink of all the gods.

Whether or not God is a lunatic doesn't matter in the context of this discussion. What matters is what is supported by the bible. Otherwise why have a discussion about the Christian God, no?

It may be your opinion that God is a lunatic, but your opinion could be flawed. Part of the problem is, since the bible has zero authority and zero divinity with many people, they get to take bits and pieces they like and make it into whatever works for them.

The bible is harmonious from beginning to end, it is one story with one purpose. It uses many historical events, parables, and time lines to paint one picture.

By judging my views as Calvinist, and giving me a "label" you simply build an unnecessary barrier between two people. But to each his own.