I give up fighting Islamophobia

[Mycroft]

I'm throwing in the towel. I've been fighting Islamophobia since 2001 and I am about to give up. It's a steamroller that can't be stopped and it will plunge this world into a war in which even the moderates on both sides will slaughter one another. Have fun with that!

Pogroms, my friend. Pogroms.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I think I'm just done with it on RF, for awhile at least. People act like these Muslim countries are the only ones to ever do what they do. You'd think they invented mass executions. We haven't even been a century since the Nazis, a CHRISTIAN group, systematically attempted to eradicate the Jews. But people never blame Christianity, unless they are a New Atheist and blaming religion for all the worlds problems. Christians committed genocide against those native to North, Central, and South America; Christians used to burn people at the stake in large numbers; Christianity has caused centuries of war; Christianity has brutal, violent, and other laws that we, today, largely judge as too harsh, extreme, and severe, yet there is hardly any movement at all to denounce Christianity and Bible.
Islamaphobia is just another fine example of mass hysteria, social hypocrisy, and people letting their fits of emotional outbursts control them.

Don't worry much about it. No matter what you say, people will blabber against it. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Some of them don't know the full extent of anything. Muslims do have the highest percentage of troubles among other groups unfortunately after all right now. People just can't understand that the problem is their senseless judgement instead of realizing they are being unfair in it.

 

[faroukfarouk]

What Islamic teachings are used to justify this?

Sorry i am having a problem understanding your question but If your question relates to how Shariah Law was compiled.Then your answer is the Noble Quraan and from the teachings of Prophet Muhammad(PBBUH).

 

[faroukfarouk]

How about if all systems of government started off with the UN declaration on human rights? If a country is defending these rights, and the truly free population chooses sharia, then they can. Oh, but wait, Sharia is incompatible with open, free human rights, because the UN human rights declaration allows everyone to choose their own religion, there is no penalty for apostasy in a free society.

Maybe you ignorant on the fact that human rights is already enshrined in the Shariah Law.So far as apostasy is concerned its a law for the security of the Islamic State.Break the law and pay the price.

As for Surah 6 - I will tell you what I learned, but I asked you if you would provide a short, one paragraph summary yourself. I'm happy if you explain yours after I explain mine. Is it a deal? The reason I want a short version is that the world doesn't need to be run by a scripture that only a few scholars can understand.

I don't have a problem with your request but remember all i ask is what moral teachings you learnt from the Surah so please don't go to extremes.

 

[faroukfarouk]

The world faces many serious problems today. Islam and Christianity are two of them, but of course they're not the only ones.

Why blame religion for the Worlds problems.Religion is the solution and not the problem.We are living in a World of deceit.You seem to be looking at religion is the mirror and hence you looking at a distorted picture.

 

[Godobeyer]

I didn't say that there were no Christians in Algeria. You said that the law I quoted does not exist or was exaggerated.

since everyone had free to be Christain , or Jew ,So what is your point ?

 

[Godobeyer]

It's easy to find reports of Muslims destroying churches throughout the entire span of the Muslim world, from Western Africa (Algeria and Nigeria) to Egypt, to Eastern Africa (Tanzania), into the ME, of course, (SA, Iran, Iraq), into SW Asia (Pakistan), and all the way to SE Asia, in Indonesia. In recent years, Muslims have destroyed thousands of churches. This is just another reason why theocracy is a bad, bad idea.

you skipped my reply #226
is this your revenge reply to mine ?

btw
there are Mosques in the West are burned .

 

[Augustus]

Sorry i am having a problem understanding your question but If your question relates to how Shariah Law was compiled.Then your answer is the Noble Quraan and from the teachings of Prophet Muhammad(PBBUH).

What specifically bans the proselytising of other faiths? Is it from hadiths? Which ones?

 

[icehorse]

you skipped my reply #226
is this your revenge reply to mine ?

btw
there are Mosques in the West are burned .

In modern times, burning a mosque in the west is extremely rare. My honest guess would be that the ratio of churches being destroyed in Muslim majority countries vs. mosques being destroyed in the West would be something like: 1000 churches destroyed for every 1 mosque destroyed.

 

[icehorse]

it's not true , reality non-Muslims lived normal in "modern Muslim countries" , so that your fake theory .

btw
last weeks 3 Muslims killed in USA,and after 911 thousands of Muslims got hurt , after Paris attacks , happaned same thing.

in Germany rally against Muslims .

In europe the Muslim had freedom to pray by law , and Cartoon Magazin insulting their religion by law .

Let's take one important case. A hundred tears ago in Turkey, 20% of the population was Christian. Now 99.8% are Muslim.

As far as individual acts of violence are concerned - I agree that around the world non-Muslims are sometimes violent towards Muslims, and Muslims are sometimes violent towards non-Muslims. We just saw the case of 1400 children in England being abused by Muslims, so we have sad stories in both directions. This seems like a different topic though.

I was speaking about why I think theocracy is a bad idea, and one of the reasons is that traditionally, and in modern times, theocracies do not treat the minority religions well.

 

[icehorse]

Hi farouk,

Well, I don't think you're going to like my summary of Surah 6

The vast majority of the Surah consists of claims (without evidence), that Allah is the all powerful creator. We also learn that Allah is (in human terms), egotistical and cruel. We are also reminded (again without real evidence), that the Quran is from Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's messenger.

There are some rules about how to slaughter animals and there are rules about what's okay to eat and what's not okay. These are rules, but I would NOT call them moral teachings.

Finally, after reading a whole bunch of threats about Allah sending non-believers to hell, we finally get to verse 151.

In this verse there are some moral teachings. But I have to say that civilized people knew all of these moral teachings long before the Quran was written, and they are mostly common sense. These moral reminders include:

- Be good to your parents.
- Don't kill your children if you're poor. (really? that needed to be pointed out?)
- Help orphans. (nice!)
- Be truthful (well, I'm being truthful, we'll see what happens)

Ok, that's my summary farouk, I await yours.

p.s. Anyone could have come along and written this Surah and claimed all the claims. But there is no actual evidence for these claims.

 

[Augustus]

In modern times, burning a mosque in the west is extremely rare. My honest guess would be that the ratio of churches being destroyed in Muslim majority countries vs. mosques being destroyed in the West would be something like: 1000 churches destroyed for every 1 mosque destroyed.

Regardless of the ratio, the authorities usually make a genuine attempt to prosecute those guilty of such crimes. I know from experience where I live that, the same certainly isn't true here. Attacks on religious minorities are almost never punished with anything more than a slap on the wrist if anything at all. And I live in one of the 'poster' countries for Islamic multiculturalism.

 

[gsa]

Regardless of the ratio, the authorities usually make a genuine attempt to prosecute those guilty of such crimes. I know from experience where I live that, the same certainly isn't true here. Attacks on religious minorities are almost never punished with anything more than a slap on the wrist if anything at all. And I live in one of the 'poster' countries for Islamic multiculturalism.

I don't know about that. There's probably undereporting of anti-Muslim bias crimes, partly because Muslims have good reason to fear law enforcement. But when reported and substantiated, in my experience authorities are usually pretty good about referring the files to prosecutors who will bring whatever charges are warranted. The problem is that bias charges, where they are even available, are relatively difficult to prove and are often entangled with other property or personal crimes.

 

[icehorse]

Regardless of the ratio, the authorities usually make a genuine attempt to prosecute those guilty of such crimes. I know from experience where I live that, the same certainly isn't true here. Attacks on religious minorities are almost never punished with anything more than a slap on the wrist if anything at all. And I live in one of the 'poster' countries for Islamic multiculturalism.

Are you at liberty to say where you live?

 

[faroukfarouk]

What specifically bans the proselytising of other faiths? Is it from hadiths? Which ones?

Sorry you have misunderstood my answer.
I said from the Noble Quraan and from the teachings of Prophet Muhammad(PBBUH).Nowhere did i mention hadiths
.Why did you mention hadith?

 

[psychoslice]

Its good that you have given up fighting Islamophobia, because they don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Let's take one important case. A hundred tears ago in Turkey, 20% of the population was Christian. Now 99.8% are Muslim.

As far as individual acts of violence are concerned - I agree that around the world non-Muslims are sometimes violent towards Muslims, and Muslims are sometimes violent towards non-Muslims. We just saw the case of 1400 children in England being abused by Muslims, so we have sad stories in both directions. This seems like a different topic though.

I was speaking about why I think theocracy is a bad idea, and one of the reasons is that traditionally, and in modern times, theocracies do not treat the minority religions well.

In Islam protection of minorities is enshrined in Shariah Law.
Note minorities will always live in fear and there is no doubt about it.Different countries will have differing concerns that minorities will have and they have to sit with their Governments and sort their concerns to alleviate their fears.Muslims also have problems being minorities in non-muslim countries.The solution to problems is to sit and discuss and try to get the maximum benefit out of such talks for the betterment of minorities.

 

[Augustus]

I said from the Noble Quraan

Which verse?

 

[gsa]

In Islam protection of minorities is enshrined in Shariah Law.
Note minorities will always live in fear and there is no doubt about it.Different countries will have differing concerns that minorities will have and they have to sit with their Governments and sort their concerns to alleviate their fears.Muslims also have problems being minorities in non-muslim countries.The solution to problems is to sit and discuss and try to get the maximum benefit out of such talks for the betterment of minorities.

Yet the oppression (and at times outright slaughter) of minorities is a reality across the Muslim world. In fact it is a demonstrably recurring pattern. And the instant that anyone makes this observation, they are inundated with examples from non-Muslim countries, as though the existence of these problems elsewhere excuses Islam. Or we're told that it is purely the result of Western intervention.

You just explained how apostasy should be punished. That's a red line for the vast majority of us: Theocracy is not legitimate. Period. We cannot peacefully co-exist with theocrats. It isn't what Muslims want to hear, I know; they want respect for their religion and they want us to affirm religious governments as legitimate. Well you can't have it. Not from the West, certainly, and not from most of the non-Muslim world outside of the West. Opposition to Islamic theocracy is a rare point of agreement.

I don't take these charges of Islamophobia seriously because I don't believe it, and I don't think that Islamic theocracies are legitimate or that we should respect them. They exist, we have to deal with them. But that's all. We should be constantly working to undermine them because they are dangerous. Don't blame the people who are willing to tell it like it is and cry victim or Islamophobia. Some of them at least care about the people who suffer under Islamist rule; there are plenty of people who are just happy to see Muslims focused on killing each other rather than killing us.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well, I don't think you're going to like my summary of Surah 6

Yes you right because you gone off topic.

The vast majority of the Surah consists of claims (without evidence), that Allah is the all powerful creator. We also learn that Allah is (in human terms), egotistical and cruel. We are also reminded (again without real evidence), that the Quran is from Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's messenger.

You expressing your views through ignorance and it has nothing to do with moral teachings.

There are some rules about how to slaughter animals and there are rules about what's okay to eat and what's not okay. These are rules, but I would NOT call them moral teachings.

Once again you express your ignorance.Go back and study the definition of Islam that i gave to Luis.If you understand that definition then this is one of the moral teachings of Islam.Its to do with good health and cleanliness.You are what you eat.You eat junk then the mind becomes junk.You eat healthy wholesome food then the mind becomes healthy.

Finally, after reading a whole bunch of threats about Allah sending non-believers to hell, we finally get to verse 151.

Well what sounds like threats will become a reality once all ignorance is alleviated.

But I have to say that civilized people knew all of these moral teachings long before the Quran was written, and they are mostly common sense. These moral reminders include:

Once again you display your ignorance.Why would God reveal moral teachings to those that were practising
morality?

- Be good to your parents.

That was not difficult.Was it?

- Don't kill your children if you're poor. (really? that needed to be pointed out?)

Yes this was the best moral teachings that God gave.
If you say you studied Islam then you should know the answer as to why God revealed this verse.
Do you really know the answer?
If you cannot answer this simple question then you prove you know nothing about Islam.

- Help orphans. (nice!)

Good.

Be truthful (well, I'm being truthful, we'll see what happens)

Good.

Ok, that's my summary farouk, I await yours.

Will do but not a summary.Remember the topic is morality from the Noble Quraan.

p.s. Anyone could have come along and written this Surah and claimed all the claims. But there is no actual evidence for these claims.

The truth is no one came even close to writing just one verse.Are you saying +1.6 billion are blind followers.Do you think that they believe without any evidence?
Think again.