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I have a question about use of niqab and corona face mask.

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Now you can understand the backlash about removing rebel flag symbols.
Yes, I suppose when you consider that it represents the religion of White Supremacy, as a religious symbol for the KKK, to require the Confederate flag be banned, would be to a Klansman or Neo Nazi, what asking a Muslim woman to remove her face covering would be like. It's an attack on a symbol of their religious faith.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
I just got confirmed by my friend that Muslim females who wear niqab do remove it when they take photo for official documents like passport, ID card and so on. So that is not a problem either
Well it is if the person at customs wants to check that it is the same person entering the country. The wearer will have to remove the face covering to compare with the passport photo.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Well it is if the person at customs wants to check that it is the same person entering the country. The wearer will have to remove the face covering to compare with the passport photo.
Yes that is true.
They can ask for a female officer to be the one confirming their ID
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I think the reason was he do not like changes, or he could be afraid of the "unknown"
I come to like the way Islam teaches modesty. And I come to dislike the extremists.

While I don't condone the dude's behaviour, to the point of me probably reacting to the dude as well and pointing out to him that he should mind his own business, I however also think that face coverings, to the point of being unrecognizable, is not appropriate in public.

The current pandemic situation notwithstanding, since health crisis overrules social convention.

But aside from that, I think people should be recognisable. And seeing / showing the face in a conversation is a basic sign of respect.

Having said all that, I'm also not a fan of outlawing it through legislation. I think it's a breach of basic freedoms as well.

After all, I also think basic freedoms include your right to be a total a-hole. And it also gives me a right to have negative opinions about it and act accordingly. Like for example, refusing to hire people who insist on hiding their face and considering them to be impolite a disrespectfull.

Wearing it is their choice and they shouldn't then complain about the consequences, like how certain people treat them as a result.

I am consistent in such line of thought.

For example, if a woman with double D's wears a shirt that heavily accents those double D's with cleavage from here to Tokyo - don't complain that I'll take a gander at the breasts.

She is the one flaunting them. Why would she do that, if she didn't want people to notice them?
She doesn't get to complain about me noticing the breasts, if she is the one putting such emphasis on them so that my eyes pretty much automatically are drawn to them.

So, for me, everybody is allowed to dress however they want. And everybody should realise that the way they dress is going to have impact on the perception of them by other people. And they should live with and accept the consequences of their choices.

On my end, there are limits too off course. I get to stare at the breasts, but I don't get to squeeze them.
Just like that guy on the bus... he gets to have his opinion about the niqaab woman, but doesn't get to verbally assault her.
 

eik

Active Member
Niqab/Burka is not religious-Islamic, but militant-Islamic. Even Morroco has banned it in 2017: “bandits have repeatedly used this garment to perpetrate their crimes” (Morrocan official)
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
No I will not remove my mask during corona virus times

You will if there is no danger of infection.
You won't take it off while standing in a crowd - and nobody will ask you to either.

But if there is no danger of infection and you are asked to identify yourself, you will take it off.
You have no reason not to.

When I take the new photo for my passport I will be alone in the booth so yes I can remove my mask. Probably she can too.

She'll have her picture taken without covering. Pictures that other people will see. That will bother her.
She doesn't wear it for protection. She wears it to hide her face. BIG difference.

I have respect for her privacy so I did not ask her if she wore a mask under her niqab.

That has nothing to do with privacy and everything with security.
It's not like you are asking about her underwear.........................

But saw the rest of her family do. So yes maybe she did too.

For me, in this day and age, "maybe" is unacceptable.
 

Piculet

Active Member
I just got confirmed by my friend that Muslim females who wear niqab do remove it when they take photo for official documents like passport, ID card and so on. So that is not a problem either
That is a problem, imo. In Muslim countries they don't necessarily need a pic and that is good, they have finger prints. Maybe in the west they don't have a choice. Hopefully one day there will be if there isn't now. It is pretty outrageous to ask someone to remove the niqab. It's like asking an average westerner to take off her shirt.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
The average mask is 3 layers of material

Not just any material. Specific material.

but yes, a niqab will help reduce the spread of c19,

But not like a proper mask would.

Over here in Belgium, if you try getting on a bus with only a scarf wrapped 17 times around your head, you will be refused. A proper mask or no busride. Or at least, that's how the measures are supposed to work. Off course there will be those who don't care enough. But the rules are quite clear and set by science professionals. It's them saying this, not politicians or the CEO of the company that operates the busses.

If clothing would work just as well as masks, there wouldn't have been a "mask shartage crisis" to provide all citizens with proper masks. Then they would have just said "wear a scarf" or whatever.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Yes that is true.
They can ask for a female officer to be the one confirming their ID
It doesn't help you speed through customs (or where ever) though.
I don't have a problem with people wearing them if they choose to do so; but they must expect some inconvenience in the modern world.- to be honest the Burka and hijab are not an issue but the niqab does pose problems.
I don't like people wearing hoodies or keeping motor cycle helmets on or sunglasses inside - I like to see eyes and faces
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I agree entirely about how Muslims might be perceived when they are likely to be just as normal and nice as most others. I have no issues with most people, as I know that we all generally share the same values despite any particular beliefs. I have travelled sufficiently to know that people are basically the same despite their cultures and/or beliefs so I try to treat all much the same until something indicates otherwise. And of course Muslims (the majority) have no input to what some (the extremists, terrorists, or whatever) might do to affect how all Muslims might be perceived. But unfortunately we do have a large number who do apparently base their opinions on appearances rather than factual evidence.

And your last point of course is quite valid.


I gotta say that I disagree.

Sure, the vast majority of abrahamic believers are normal citizens who live pretty much like every one else, who's social circle isn't confined to only "their own" and who's religious experience is mostly personal.

However...Abrahamic religions notoriously include things that are quite counter western culture. That are quite intolerant. Which if taken to the letter, results in downright hostile thoughts and behaviour.

So this intolerance goes hand in hand with extremism. The more extreme / fundamentalist / radical the person's religious beliefs are, the more hostile they will be (and I'll leave it in the middle how that hostility manifests in daily life).

So when it comes to muslim women, the way they dress (assuming it is their own choice) gives us a hint to what category they belong. Their wardrobe kind of reveal their level of radicalism.

Speaking from my experience:
Women who don't even wear a hijab, are very "moderate". You'll likely not even realise they are muslim until they actually tell you.

Those who wear a hijab are mostly moderate.

Those who wear a niqaab are likely pretty radical.

Those who wear a burqa are likely very radical.


Note that I left it in the middle how the hostility that comes with it manifests itself.
I by no means am implying "radical" is synonymous with "terrorist".

In fact, terrorists these days actively try to hide their radicalism by trying to look as western as possible.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I just got confirmed by my friend that Muslim females who wear niqab do remove it when they take photo for official documents like passport, ID card and so on. So that is not a problem either

It wasn't my intention to state it as a general rule.

I just know of plenty of instances of niqaab wearing muslims in Antwerp who protested so much, they even went to court over it.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Why, did norway not accept any refugees?
Someone who arrived in Norway as a refugee is still a Norwegian.

People adopt nationalities by birth or by choice, and it's problematic to treat only native-born people as the "true" members of a nationality.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
That is a problem, imo. In Muslim countries they don't necessarily need a pic and that is good, they have finger prints

Privacy rules prohibit collecting finger prints over here unless it is in context of criminal investigation.

Maybe in the west they don't have a choice. Hopefully one day there will be if there isn't now. It is pretty outrageous to ask someone to remove the niqab. It's like asking an average westerner to take off her shirt.

No, it's not.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Jewish and christian women use to do the same. Although not in a niqaab, but definatly a scarf type thing covering the hear. Some still do. Like in Greece. Many older women still wear something similar.

View attachment 42134

I didn't even need to look hard. I just googled "old greek woman".

Scarf over head is much different from mask on face.

There are certain psychological and physiological effects of a mask.
1. Fear. Whether you are the one to wear a mask or someone else, people inherently associate masks with either robbers, superheroes, or medical professionals. Two of three of these are bad, as if a doctor needs to wear a mask, he is doing dangerous surgery or you have something bad enough to protect from, something contagious. In other words, masks awaken flight or fight response. You'll notice that even in the case of superheroes, the vast majority of them cover their eyes, not their mouth.
2. Distorted sense of security. The mask is an old totem used by pretty ancient cultures. Usually animal masks to pretend to be that animal. But the protectiveness is all in our heads. Masks actually don't protect against the Coronavirus or any other disease, and it says so on the box. Yet this wives' tale about you protecting other people. (1) I'm not sick so why am I wearing a mask to protect you? (2) When did we become a "needs of the many" fascist government? All that matters is my being able to breath, not tour feeling safe (which you never will).
3. Physiological issues. Masks trap air. This means extended times wearing masks will not only cause you to run out of usable oxygen and flood your breathing air with CO2 (two bad conditions: hypoxia and hypercapnia), but they also trap moisture as the face begins to sweat. The good news is the mask breaks down and allows breathable air in once it gets too damp. The bad news is any perceived protection is gone around them, plus they now have moldy air to deal with. Oh, and not having enough oxygen dulls the senses and makes you irrational and stupid.
4. Dehumanization. When a person's face cannot be seen, they are able to be treated as not human. Less than.
5. Concealment of self. On a very symbolic level, if I said "stop wearing a mask" to someone who wasn't physically wearing one, they would get what I meant. Masks create a persona to the effect that many people create a mask without wearing one.
6. Subjugation. People struggling under all these issues are easier to take over, because they are sufficiently messed up. That's why Muslim women seem so submissive. Because from the start, they're having to deal with this stuff.
7. Marginalization of non-mask wearers. Next time you wask around town, look at the signs on the store. How many of them tell people KEEP OUT in either subtle or not subtle terms. In fact, there's a perception that people who don't wear one are violent. When actually they just want people treated as humans (see #4) again.

The other day I was a trip in to the city, and when I was waiting for the bus I wore sunglasses and face mask. Next to me there was a family where the woman wore a niqab.
When we stood there a Norwegian man come up to the woman, starting to bully her for covering up her face.

I stepped for ward and asked the angry man, why he bullied her, but not since I to was covering my face totally and could not be identified, he was unsure what to answer so he run away.

So why is it ok for me to cover up fully, and not her? Is it because she is a Muslim who " don't do it on her free will" ?

Don't kid yourself. You're not doing it on free will either. You still have not made the connection that this is a red-green alliance (both the socialist/communist fronts and the Muslims hate the west and its success, blaming their failures on it), and that everyone around you is peer pressuring you. Try walking around town for one week (no mask), and see how "free" you are. You'll likely get shamed numerous times (respond with this "I wanted to see how you would treat me if I didn't do wear one") up to and including accusing you of causing death, you'll be asked to leave, and you'll likely get treated like the Norwegian man (bullied by people who can't be identified). Yeah, I didn't misread that. You're only looking at this story from one side, the side of the hijab wearer. But you have no idea how much of an outcast the man feels.
 
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