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I have another question for YOU to ignore

atpollard

Active Member
@atpollard Is that you can't get by wanting to know what songs I sing?
Or is it that I said I love you?
Or is it that I said I am sure I hear from Christ like Paul did? Other people do too. It's not about me and Paul.
Nothing so dramatic. My wife's cousin Patrice is in town so I get dragged to an obligatory dinner and social conversation.
I have a color rendering to finish on Saturday at work to make a Board of County Comissionaers happy, and a Home Owner's Association less grumpy on Monday.

What need a person to endure in (I actually love that sentence :p) to be saved and what kind of saving do they get?
Good questions. I only have accurate personal answers.

My 17 year old self was part of a gang ranging in age from 13 to 21. No one was over age 21 because sometime between age 18 and 21, everyone died or disappeared forever. Most died from some drug related violence, an overdose or a rival gang or a suicide were all common. Many chose suicide by cop. A few were arrested and disappeared into remote Federal Prisons for 25+ years (forever in the experience of a 13-21 year old). My father gave me the advice 'an apple contains all of the same genetic code as the parent tree. It falls to the ground and grows a new Apple tree with the genetic memory of that parent tree. The old tree dies, rots and the molecules that formed the old tree return to the ground and are reabsorbed to form part of the new Apple tree. That is the closest that we will ever get to eternity.'

The world is fill of people who are willing to tell me what they "think" or "feel" ... what do I care what you think and feel ... I am not suffering from a shortage on uneducated guesses. How about what I KNEW. I am the eldest of three brothers. One was murdered and the other committed suicide. That I KNEW. I was 17 in a world with a maximum life expectancy of 21. That I KNEW. I was not going to die in prison. That I KNEW.

So I met these lunatics who thought that they talked with God and he talked with them. I didn't want to know what they 'thought' or 'felt' ... I wanted to know what was TRUTH. Real, absolute objective (like gravity - true whether you believe it or not - Truth). This Jesus made some wild claims ... "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." I needed to KNOW if that was true. I had an Oaklahoma City type bomb half built for a murder-suicide. My father and grandfather were both chemists, I could read chemical equations in kindergarden. I was slowly manufacturing enough Thermit to get the job done.

Like I said, I had resolved that I would not die in prison.

So to answer your question for me, I was saved from hate to love. From death to life. From dispair to hope. From total sin to complete gratitude. From ignorant lies to Absolute Truth. That is what kind of Saving I got.

"What must I endure?" turned out to be the most mind-blowing part of the whole thing. I was prepared to DO anything, I was already prepared to die, what more did I have to fear? All Jesus asked of me was to TRUST HIM and ABIDE IN HIS LOVE. So I did and I do.

[PS. That is why His love letter is so precious to me. It tells me about Him ... about His heart.]
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What does "have a nice day" really mean?

In American English I know another phrase which I think means the same thing.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Y'all being so funny I sometimes forget what I was going to say.

It must be a question..........

Do Jehovah's Witnesses still call themselves "in the truth"?
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
OK. I can't disagree with that. The question is what other domain is there for them to depart to?
Perhaps it is more like this. God is everywhere. That is, God occupies every single space in existence. God wants those that He does not accept to depart from every place where He Himself exists. Where does that leave them? Nowhere.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Do you want proof that "thou shalt not bear false witness [of they] neighbor has a word added?
No?
I am going to tell you anyway...

Neighbor means the other person. .It means no man is an island. All those other people are your neighbors. Neighbor means the other people who live on the Earth with you. It can be your spouse or your child.

I am sure.

Picture this. My son is a normal child and I expect good things from him. I do not bother him because he is a good kid and I trust him.

But what does he do? He collects guns and goes to school to shoot his neighbors. Might his normal parents have known he had guns and wondered about them?

Yes, but they ignored God command to not bear witness. Bad witness? No! Good witness.

God told Moses that we should know the truth about people. Must? No, (that is for me to do alone.- I do not know why). God's command is that we do not BEAR false witness about our neighbors.

Just so you know, against and about are DIFFERENT.


Another one. I hitchhike. A car stops. It is a single man, but he looks good. A safe ride? If you get in and he rapes you, it is because you are ok with breaking the command, Exodus 20:16. Do you see that she believed GOOD about the driver?
 
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Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Do you want proof that "thou shalt not bear false witness [of they] neighbor has a word added?
No?
I am going to tell you anyway...

Neighbor means the other person. .It means no man is an island. All those other people are your neighbors. Neighbor means the other people who live on the Earth with you. It can be your spouse or your child.

I am sure.

Picture this. My son is a normal child and I expect good things from him. I do not bother him because he is a good kid and I trust him.

But what does he do? He collects guns and goes to school to shoot his neighbors. Might his normal parents have known he had guns and wondered about them?

Yes, but they ignored God command to not bear witness. Bad witness? No! Good witness.

God told Moses that we should know the truth about people. Must? No, (that is for me to do alone.- I do not know why). God's command is that we do not BEAR false witness about our neighbors.

Just so you know, against and about are DIFFERENT.


Another one. I hitchhike. A car stops. It is a single man, but he looks good. A safe ride? If you get in and he rapes you, it is because you are ok with breaking the command, Exodus 20:16. Do you see that she believed GOOD about the driver?
I am only responding to your last comment here, and I believe it is an excellent observation. Giving people the benefit of the doubt certainly would be a breach of that commandment.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am only responding to your last comment here, and I believe it is an excellent observation. Giving people the benefit of the doubt certainly would be a breach of that commandment.
I don't know if you are being funny. I think that for people we know well to give them the benefit of the doubt is a good thing. I think Exodus 20:16 or thirteen is more about belief than it is about opinion. I think that it is OK to have favorable opinions of people we meet. To be trusting that our opinions are right and righteous is what the command is about, in my opinion.

What I am trying to say is that the words are misleading. It doesn't say that we are not to give false testimony for getting our neighbor in trouble. It says we are not to believe falsely either bad or good about others. I think it is OK that I do not draw any opinion. I think that is what the command is for learning.

How to practice it? Someone says, "I come to teach you righteousness" and I say, "bull ****", because I want to obey the Law.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
An example of breaking the law.

Someone comes in the guise of a sheep, but inside he is a wolf. He is doing right on the outside, but on the inside he is for trouble. He wants a position teaching other people to be sheep and because he looks just fine, he is elected to do so. How do the people elect him? They elect him by breaking God's commandment Exodus 20:16 but it doesn't say "against". That is an added word. It can just as easily mean "for".

Not yet?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/vereacha_7453.htm

ḇə·rê·‘ă·ḵā — 3 Occurrences

Exodus 20:16
HEB: לֹֽא־ תַעֲנֶ֥ה בְרֵעֲךָ֖ עֵ֥ד שָֽׁקֶר׃
NAS: false witness against your neighbor.
KJV: false witness against thy neighbour.
INT: shall not bear your neighbor witness false.

Deuteronomy 5:20
HEB: וְלֹֽא־ תַעֲנֶ֥ה בְרֵֽעֲךָ֖ עֵ֥ד שָֽׁוְא׃
NAS: false witness against your neighbor.
KJV: false witness against thy neighbour.
INT: shall not bear your neighbor witness false.

Deuteronomy 24:10
HEB: כִּֽי־ תַשֶּׁ֥ה בְרֵֽעֲךָ מַשַּׁ֣את מְא֑וּמָה
NAS: you make your neighbor a loan
KJV: When thou dost lend thy brother any
INT: When make your neighbor A loan of any

When you make a loan of any kind [FOR] your neighbor, do not go into their house to get what is offered to you as a pledge
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
7453 Neighbor

Strong's Concordance
rea: friend, companion, fellow
Original Word: רֵ֫עַ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: rea
Phonetic Spelling: (ray'-ah)
Short Definition: neighbor
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from raah
Definition
friend, companion, fellow
NASB Translation
another (27), another's (5), another* (1), companion (3), fellow (1), friend (30), friend's (1), friends (18), husband (1), kind (1), lover (1), lovers (1), mate (1), neighbor (64), neighbor's (23), neighbors (3), neighbors' (1), opponent (1), opponent's (1), other (6), together* (1).
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
I don't know if you are being funny. I think that for people we know well to give them the benefit of the doubt is a good thing. I think Exodus 20:16 or thirteen is more about belief than it is about opinion. I think that it is OK to have favorable opinions of people we meet. To be trusting that our opinions are right and righteous is what the command is about, in my opinion.
I am not trying to be funny. If you know someone well, and you know that they are a pedophile and/or a rapist, I do not believe it would be a very good idea to give them the benefit of the doubt, and think that that person might not be a danger to your children, and allow that person to babysit your children. It is fine if you want to treat total strangers with a certain degree of dignity and respect, but it would be foolish, and even stupid to place a stranger in the sort of situation I just described above. Do not let a stranger care for your children if you are not present. The commandment that we are referring to is about bearing false witness against others, which is what the commandment says. Why try to add something to that? Just read what it says according to the words that the author chose to use. Its hard enough to know exactly what someone meant when you hear what they say without trying to add something to it yourself. The commandment is about lying. It is about the telling of something about your neighbor that is not true, whether you know it is not true, or not. If the guy is a rapist, it would be a breaking of the commandment to suggest to anyone, even yourself that he's a good guy, or that he is in fact not a rapist, when you know darn well that he is. If you only believe that someone is a rapist, but aren't certain about it, then you probably ought not go around telling others that he is is a rapist. That would be baring false witness, because you have no idea if he is a rapist or not.

What I am trying to say is that the words are misleading. It doesn't say that we are not to give false testimony for getting our neighbor in trouble. It says we are not to believe falsely either bad or good about others. I think it is OK that I do not draw any opinion. I think that is what the command is for learning.
No, the words are not misleading at all. What the commandment says, is what the commandment is trying to convey. The commandment doesn't even mention anything about getting someone in trouble...so why add it? Just don't bear false witness against anyone whether it gets them in trouble or not. The problem comes in when we believe something about someone but we're wrong. In such a case we might bear false witness against them because we were wrong, because we believed something that was not true. If we do this, we break the commandment. Ignorance is not an excuse to disobey the law. So if we are going to be thinking or saying something about anyone, we better be damned sure that we are right. So yes, it is trying to teach us something. Nothing is in the Bible for no good reason. Every single word in it is there to teach us something.

How to practice it? Someone says, "I come to teach you righteousness" and I say, "bull ****", because I want to obey the Law.

If you say bull, you bear false witness, unless you know for a fact that what the person is trying to teach you is a lie.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why try to add something to that?
AGAINST WAS ADDED. I am saying to remove what was added would be the wise thing to do.

The word against was added.

Do you know how many people in the history of the world have been called to give a testimony against someone?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Maybe you do not read posts or you just read what you already know.
I provided the evidence.
Here it is again.

http://biblehub.com/text/exodus/20-16.htm

3808 [e] lō- לֹֽא־ not Adv
6030 [e] ṯa-‘ă-neh תַעֲנֶ֥ה do bear Verb
7453 [e] ḇə-rê-‘ă-ḵā בְרֵעֲךָ֖ neighbor Noun
5707 [e] ‘êḏ עֵ֥ד witness Noun
8267 [e] šā-qer. שָֽׁקֶר׃ FALSE Noun
s ס -

Deuteronomy 24:10
HEB: כִּֽי־ תַשֶּׁ֥ה בְרֵֽעֲךָ מַשַּׁ֣את מְא֑וּמָה
NAS: you make your neighbor a loan
KJV: When thou dost lend thy brother any
INT: When make your neighbor A loan of any
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Maybe you do not read posts or you just read what you already know.
I provided the evidence.
Here it is again.

http://biblehub.com/text/exodus/20-16.htm

3808 [e] lō- לֹֽא־ not Adv
6030 [e] ṯa-‘ă-neh תַעֲנֶ֥ה do bear Verb
7453 [e] ḇə-rê-‘ă-ḵā בְרֵעֲךָ֖ neighbor Noun
5707 [e] ‘êḏ עֵ֥ד witness Noun
8267 [e] šā-qer. שָֽׁקֶר׃ FALSE Noun
s ס -

Deuteronomy 24:10
HEB: כִּֽי־ תַשֶּׁ֥ה בְרֵֽעֲךָ מַשַּׁ֣את מְא֑וּמָה
NAS: you make your neighbor a loan
KJV: When thou dost lend thy brother any
INT: When make your neighbor A loan of any
The Greek word for false was šā-qer., and it is present in the verse. Why do you say it was added?
Your evidence even shows it there. What are you doing?
 
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