[ I have one question ]

[Bowman]

First of all, did you really just call out a Muslim on what the Quran says? Really? Because, I may not be a Muslim, but I have to say, when it comes to what the Quran actually says, I find it awfully hard to believe the Christian reader over the Muslim reader. You've studied the Quran? You speak Arabic? You have a broad and deep enough comprehension of Quranic literature to claim an interpretation that I have never, ever heard any Muslim scholar ever voice before? I am sure you'll pardon my skepticism, but...really?!

Yes, really.

Second of all, let's be clear: Jesus is God in the New Testament. Jesus does not appear at all in the Hebrew Bible-- all written long before Jesus lived, written by Jews, for Jews, none of whom ever believed that a living person could be God.

Jews are just as bad as Muslims in not comprehending their scriptures.

Yahweh was seen in human form numerous times in the OT.

Ezekiel even decribes Yahweh as a MAN sitting upon the Throne.

Time to start studying your scriptures, brother...

 

[Bowman]

You are completely ignorant as to what the Quran actually says. Try and read the book before stating something you have no knowledge of.

This is what their Quran says.

Arberry (Translation)
Sura 3:50-52

Likewise confirming the truth of the Torah that is before me, and to make lawful to you certain things that before were forbidden unto you. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; so fear you God, and obey you me. Surely God is my Lord and your Lord; so serve Him. This is a straight path".' And when Jesus perceived their unbelief, he said, 'Who will be my helpers unto God?' The Apostles said, 'We will be helpers of God; we believe in God; witness thou our submission*.

*Note: The word at the end of that verse is (muslimoona) and should not be taken as they submitted to Isa (Yeshua). This becomes evident when reading the verses after this one.

قل إن كان للرحمن ولد فأنا أول العبدينسبحن رب السموت والأرض رب العرش عما


يصفونفذرهم يخوضوا ويلعبوا حتى يلقوا يومهم الذي يوعدون وهو الذي في السماء إله وفي الأرض إله وهو الحكيم العليم​

Qul in kana lilrrahmani waladun faana awwalu alAAabideena subhana rabbi alssamawati waal-ardi rabbi alAAarshi AAamma yasifoona fatharhum yakhoodoo wayalAAaboo hatta yulaqoo yawmahumu allathee yooAAadoona wahuwa allathee fee alssama-i ilahun wafee al-ardi ilahun wahuwa alhakeemu alAAaleemu

Say: "Indeed on account of the most Merciful Son, so I myself the worshippers' first.” Glory be to the Lord (of) the heavens and the earth, the throne's Lord, from what they ascribe. So leave them alone; they indulged and they jest until they meet their day whom they were threatened. And He, whom upon the cloud, God, and upon the earth, God, and He, the wise, the one who knows. (43.81 – 84)




These ayahs proclaim that the Son is worshiped directly as deity.

They also proclaim that the Son is God, not only upon the earth, but in the Cloud upon which he returns...just as copied from the Holy Bible...

 

[Bowman]

You guys have to understand. Bowman is an old acquaintance from ChristianForums and he did the same thing over on their Non-Christian Religion board.

He uses a translator and for some reason believes that he knows classical Arabic and that Muslims throughout history just haven't been able to read better than him.

Just ignore him. He doesn't go away.

We have no need of a translator, brother.

A google translator is useless for classic Arabic.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Jesus is the one and only true creator God of the Universe, brother.

Even the authors of the Koran knew this.

Cooool, its always a pleasure to get help from people from other faiths to help you understanding your own religion.

Thank you very much for the enlightenment brother.

 

[Bowman]

Cooool, its always a pleasure to get help from people from other faiths to help you understanding your own religion.

Thank you very much for the enlightenment brother.

Sure thing...

 

[javajo]

Hello everybody



my question is : is jesus a god ?

I believe Jesus is God.

 

[gzusfrk]

Hello everybody



my question is : is jesus a god ?

He is the God of the humans.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Sure thing...

I sincerely hope you realise I was sarcastic?

PS: Forget about me being sarcastic , I feel bad now that you thought I was serious

 

[Bowman]

I sincerely hope you realise I was sarcastic?

PS: Forget about me being sarcastic , I feel bad now that you thought I was serious

Would you like to talk about it...?

 

[javajo]

John1:1-14
In the beginning, the Word (Jesus) was already there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things were made through him. Nothing that has been made was made without him. 4 Life was in him, and that life was the light for all people. 5 The light shines in the darkness. But the darkness has not understood it. 6 A man came who was sent from God. His name was John. 7 He came to give witness about that light. He gave witness so that all people could believe. 8 John himself was not the light. He came only as a witness to the light. 9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
10 The Word was in the world that was made through him. But the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to what was his own. But his own people did not accept him. 12 Some people did accept him. They believed in his name. He gave them the right to become children of God. 13 To be a child of God has nothing to do with human parents. Children of God are not born because of human choice or because a husband wants them to be born. They are born because of what God does.
14 The Word became a human being. He made his home with us. We have seen his glory. It is the glory of the one and only Son. He came from the Father. And he was full of grace and truth.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Would you like to talk about it...?

Not now , thank you very much , may be later; I have a phobia of talking about my feelings in public sorry :sad4:

 

[EtuMalku]

Jesus/Yeshua the Nazarene - no historical proof he existed just like Moses.
In my opinion this is all a matter of archetypal imagery and Belief systems gone wild!
In the case of Islam it is a matter of total delusion.

We all eventually grow out of Santa Claus . . . what's with this bearded/robed dude in the sky?

 

[Rakhel]

قل إن كان للرحمن ولد فأنا أول العبدينسبحن رب السموت والأرض رب العرش عما


يصفونفذرهم يخوضوا ويلعبوا حتى يلقوا يومهم الذي يوعدون وهو الذي في السماء إله وفي الأرض إله وهو الحكيم العليم​

Qul in kana lilrrahmani waladun faana awwalu alAAabideena subhana rabbi alssamawati waal-ardi rabbi alAAarshi AAamma yasifoona fatharhum yakhoodoo wayalAAaboo hatta yulaqoo yawmahumu allathee yooAAadoona wahuwa allathee fee alssama-i ilahun wafee al-ardi ilahun wahuwa alhakeemu alAAaleemu

Say: "Indeed on account of the most Merciful Son, so I myself the worshippers' first.” Glory be to the Lord (of) the heavens and the earth, the throne's Lord, from what they ascribe. So leave them alone; they indulged and they jest until they meet their day whom they were threatened. And He, whom upon the cloud, God, and upon the earth, God, and He, the wise, the one who knows. (43.81 – 84)




These ayahs proclaim that the Son is worshiped directly as deity.

They also proclaim that the Son is God, not only upon the earth, but in the Cloud upon which he returns...just as copied from the Holy Bible...

I don't know what quran you are reading but this one: Surat Az-Zukhruf - The Holy Qur'an - القرآن الكريم says this at verse 43:

43:81

Sahih International
Say, [O Muhammad], "If the Most Merciful had a son, then I would be the first of [his] worshippers."
Muhsin Khan
Say (O Muhammad SAW): "If the Most Beneficent (Allah) had a son (or children as you pretend), then I am the first of Allah's worshippers [who deny and refute this claim of yours (and the first to believe in Allah Alone and testify that He has no children)]." [Tafsir At-Tabari].

It says "If." And if Sahih International and Muhsin Khan are two separate translations, then they both say "If."

 

[Bowman]

I don't know what quran you are reading but this one: Surat Az-Zukhruf - The Holy Qur'an - القرآن الكريم says this at verse 43:



It says "If." And if Sahih International and Muhsin Khan are two separate translations, then they both say "If."

Please show us the Arabic words...'O Muhammad'.....and 'if'.....

Good luck...

 

[Rakhel]

Sahih International
Say, [O Muhammad], "If the Most Merciful had a son, then I would be the first of [his] worshippers."
Muhsin Khan
Say (O Muhammad SAW): "If the Most Beneficent (Allah) had a son (or children as you pretend), then I am the first of Allah's worshippers [who deny and refute this claim of yours (and the first to believe in Allah Alone and testify that He has no children)]." [Tafsir At-Tabari].

 

[Rakhel]

You forget that the old semitic languages contained a lot of words that were combined into one. There is no Hebrew word for "If" either. Much like Arabic, it is assumed the word is there.

 

[gnostic]

John1:1-14
In the beginning, the Word (Jesus) was already there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things were made through him. Nothing that has been made was made without him. 4 Life was in him, and that life was the light for all people. 5 The light shines in the darkness. But the darkness has not understood it. 6 A man came who was sent from God. His name was John. 7 He came to give witness about that light. He gave witness so that all people could believe. 8 John himself was not the light. He came only as a witness to the light. 9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
10 The Word was in the world that was made through him. But the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to what was his own. But his own people did not accept him. 12 Some people did accept him. They believed in his name. He gave them the right to become children of God. 13 To be a child of God has nothing to do with human parents. Children of God are not born because of human choice or because a husband wants them to be born. They are born because of what God does.
14 The Word became a human being. He made his home with us. We have seen his glory. It is the glory of the one and only Son. He came from the Father. And he was full of grace and truth.

When I read John 1, I believed that this to be nothing more than John's own metaphor, motif or even a parable. This was nothing that Jesus taught. Unless one of you Christians provide a similar identification of Jesus being Logo or the Word from the gospels that Jesus specifically identify himself as the Word, then you can't take this literally (meaning this quote is merely a metaphor).

 

[Pegg]

Hello everybody



my question is : is jesus a god ?

No. He said he was the 'son' of God....he never claimed to be God even though many christians teach that he is God.

The teaching that he is God came 4 centuries later by a church that had turned apostate.

 

[Pegg]

When I read John 1, I believed that this to be nothing more than John's own metaphor, motif or even a parable. This was nothing that Jesus taught. Unless one of you Christians provide a similar identification of Jesus being Logo or the Word from the gospels that Jesus specifically identify himself as the Word, then you can't take this literally (meaning this quote is merely a metaphor).

Jesus did tell his disciples of his pre-human existence at John 3:13 "Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man"

So John 1:1 is actually identifying Jesus in his prehuman existence when he was with God in heaven. John says 'the word was with God' in the beginning. I dont believe John is identifying Jesus as being God, but due to the way Greek is written without definite articles, it could be read as 'the word was god'

however, considering bible translators put a definite article all through the greek scriptures, it doesnt make sense why they deliberately leave this verse without a definite article. Some translators have chosen to put a definite article in this verse though and this makes the verse read

'the word wasa god'

Jesus was of divine nature in that he was a spirit before he was a man, and so some translators use the expression, 'the word was divine' or 'the word was godlike'

 

[Pegg]

I am confused, in the Bible Jesus says the Father is far greater then he is and God is his Father. So is God the Father and Jesus one in the same? or seperate?

they are separate individuals. Jesus is called 'the firstborn of all creation' which means that he, unlike God Almighty, had a beginning...he had a birth.

Its the trinity teaching which has caused all the confusion as to Jesus identity. The trinity was officially introduced to the church by the Roman Emperor Constantine.