I have to be honest, Islam freaks me out

[Terrywoodenpic]

I have great respect for people who can embrace Islam with out being subject to its darker aspects. And who are able to reject the efforts of its more radical and hateful leaders.

However I have no respect for Islam as a religion, or as a way of life or legal system. I suspect its followers will always find it teachings difficult to reconcile with the modern world. And will always find itself at odds with the basics of international human rights law. (which includes free speech)

 

[Father Heathen]

I have great respect for people who can embrace Islam with out being subject to its darker aspects. And who are able to reject the efforts of its more radical and hateful leaders.

However I have no respect for Islam as a religion, or as a way of life or legal system. I suspect its followers will always find it teachings difficult to reconcile with the modern world. And will always find itself at odds with the basics of international human rights law. (which includes free speech)

:highfive:

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I have great respect for people who can embrace Islam with out being subject to its darker aspects. And who are able to reject the efforts of its more radical and hateful leaders.

That's how I feel about Christianity.

However I have no respect for Islam as a religion, or as a way of life or legal system. I suspect its followers will always find it teachings difficult to reconcile with the modern world. And will always find itself at odds with the basics of international human rights law. (which includes free speech)

I disagree. Christianity survived its dark ages, Islam can too.

 

[Me Myself]

No offense, but it is easy for you to say because you have your white privilege intact, never been made to feel like an outcaste (as most Muslim immigrants do). Since you're not in their position, do you really believe you have any moral right to comment?

No one is in anyones position but their own. Every ethnic group except white has been made feel like an outcast in America or in any country not originally their own. The idea is to not blow **** up and not kill people. It doesn't really help making them look less outcasty.

Everyone has a moral right to say murder is wrong. Dude, if tomorrow they killed your mother, would you give them any moral ground? would it be justice?

Nonsense. Every religion has been used for comedy one way and another, they have no excuse. There is no reason to treat them special.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

That's how I feel about Christianity.



I disagree. Christianity survived its dark ages, Islam can too.

I think so too, Trey.

I've seen some outstanding Muslim-led documentaries and interviews that express tolerance, wisdom, compassion, and generosity (actually I wish most of us would model the Muslims level of generosity, but that's just me). They're out there, the I know of Muslim friends who are shocked and deeply saddened by any stories of violence perpetuated in the name of Islam.

I know enough of Islam to know that it isn't for me, and that I can still question its doctrine and its applications. But I can't forget that the Muslim people overall do not reflect what is portrayed as violent and intolerant. In fact, I can't say I've come across a single intolerant Muslim in real life.

Online, sure. But of the several dozen or so that I've met, worked with, had relationships with? Not one. And those are super favorable statistics, there.

Wait...

I've met one....

A Pakistani mother who didn't like me dating her son because I'm American and white. So, one in several dozen. That's still REALLY good, I think.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Nah. I hit the nail on the head, kid.

I disagree, you want to justify your hate because the people have disgusting behavior.

Where we really part company is when you break out the broad brush.

Expecting third world countries to automatically upgrade to your expected standards of progress just shows immature impatience on your part.

Just 50 years ago our own country kept women as second class citizens.

It is unrealistic to expect the whole world to progress at the same pace.

The United States is the beacon for freedom and democracy around the world and yet we have not completed our journey either.

Moderate Muslims still live in fear to speak out against many injustices and do not enjoy freedom of speach like we do, yet you judge them so very harshly.

 

[Revoltingest]

sorry to be the boring moral nihilist, but we all don't have moral obligations.

I know....but I got caught up in pontificating.

 

[waitasec]

I have great respect for people who can embrace Islam with out being subject to its darker aspects. And who are able to reject the efforts of its more radical and hateful leaders.

However I have no respect for Islam as a religion, or as a way of life or legal system. I suspect its followers will always find it teachings difficult to reconcile with the modern world. And will always find itself at odds with the basics of international human rights law. (which includes free speech)

that is it!!!!

freedom of speech and self expression seems to be an idea that most dogmatic religions are at odds with. and since the world is so much smaller with the advent of the internet, what is happening now with islam (a relatively new religion) or the very loud actions of a section of islam, will eventually succumb to the realization that natural law always wins...

 

[Reverend Rick]

Their refusal to integrate, their lack of respect for the local culture and their attempts to impose their own norms upon their host society might have something to do with that.

Your impatience knows no limits. Give them a few generations here in the States and that will not be the case. You really have to lose that broad brush, many have done quite well at adjusting, why on earth do you think they came here in the first place? Think about it before you reply. If they where so happy with the old ways, why come here?

 

[waitasec]

Er, what? See the context, the bigger picture ... ask why they're protesting.

they're protesting because they got their feelings hurt.
weak minded individuals act on first impulses to destroy that which represents an objection to their beliefs... i find it lame that people what to continue to perpetuate this childish way of dealing with a difference of opinion...after all it is just an opinion...these people, the weak minded ones, should get over themselves before they have no more teeth to chew their food with or eyes to see with.

 

[Father Heathen]

I disagree, you want to justify your hate because the people have disgusting behavior.

Where we really part company is when you break out the broad brush.

Expecting third world countries to automatically upgrade to your expected standards of progress just shows immature impatience on your part.

Just 50 years ago our own country kept women as second class citizens.

It is unrealistic to expect the whole world to progress at the same pace.

The United States is the beacon for freedom and democracy around the world and yet we have not completed our journey either.

Moderate Muslims still live in fear to speak out against many injustices and do not enjoy freedom of speach like we do, yet you judge them so very harshly.

Your impatience knows no limits. Give them a few generations here in the States and that will not be the case. You really have to lose that broad brush, many have done quite well at adjusting, why on earth do you think they came here in the first place? Think about it before you reply. If they where so happy with the old ways, why come here?

It should be obvious that I'm referring specifically to those who resort to violence and destruction. They deserve no patience or understanding.

 

[Awoon]

I don't know if the media simply does not represent them, but it sure would be nice to hear Muslim leaders who are moderate come out and condemn extreme behaviour like this.

The media should stop putting them on the front page.

 

[Father Heathen]

The media should stop putting them on the front page.

That would be a good idea if it didn't also marginalize the death of innocents.

 

[Awoon]

That would be a good idea if it didn't also marginalize the death of innocents.

I agree.

The media doesnt show the deaths of the innocents outside their coffins or body bags. Start showing the blood and guts, then maybe some little bit of humanity in those people will get touched to the point of stopping the nonsense.

 

[MD]

I agree.

The media doesnt show the deaths of the innocents outside their coffins or body bags. Start showing the blood and guts, then maybe some little bit of humanity in those people will get touched to the point of stopping the nonsense.

Yes I agree, the media should also put up the hundreds of people that die everyday from western influence, wars and exploitation. Then maybe the humanity which we all claim to have will be 'touched' and we will campaign for less wars, less exploitation and less pollution.

Don't throw stones in a glass house.

What's happening right now is a mixture of many things: politics, poverty and power are also huge factors involved here. Religion is as well, but blaming this completely on religion is what the powers that be want.

Where do we get most of our oil from? The country which is probably funding a lot of this right now. And guess who they're best friends with? The most powerful nation in the world. It's all about economics and power, it's almost never about religion.

 

[Dingbat]

Yes I agree, the media should also put up the hundreds of people that die everyday from western influence, wars and exploitation. Then maybe the humanity which we all claim to have will be 'touched' and we will campaign for less wars, less exploitation and less pollution.

Don't throw stones in a glass house.

What's happening right now is a mixture of many things: politics, poverty and power are also huge factors involved here. Religion is as well, but blaming this completely on religion is what the powers that be want.

Where do we get most of our oil from? The country which is probably funding a lot of this right now. And guess who they're best friends with? The most powerful nation in the world. It's all about economics, it's almost never about religion.

Indeed, though the West via the media makes history and politics into very simple dynamics. Nothing is that simple in this world and it is saddening to see people boiling down complex problems into very simple two-dimensional issues.

 

[Awoon]

Yes I agree, the media should also put up the hundreds of people that die everyday from western influence, wars and exploitation. Then maybe the humanity which we all claim to have will be 'touched' and we will campaign for less wars, less exploitation and less pollution.

Don't throw stones in a glass house.

What's happening right now is a mixture of many things: politics, poverty and power are also huge factors involved here. Religion is as well, but blaming this completely on religion is what the powers that be want.

Where do we get most of our oil from? The country which is probably funding a lot of this right now. And guess who they're best friends with? The most powerful nation in the world. It's all about economics and power, it's almost never about religion.

The mixes of religious people on my street in my town arent burning, killing or protesting in the name of any religion.

So why is it in predominatly Near and Middle Eastern Muslem streets and cities?

Dont those people ever work? Also praying as much as they do hasnt stopped one murder or protest. Why not? Is ANY GOD LISTENING or are they always Praying for WARS?

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Your impatience knows no limits. Give them a few generations here in the States and that will not be the case. You really have to lose that broad brush, many have done quite well at adjusting, why on earth do you think they came here in the first place? Think about it before you reply. If they where so happy with the old ways, why come here?

They came for more $ to finance their old ways, which they seek to recreate in their adopted homelands, and to escape the political insanity their system manufactures - though they wouldn't see it that way.

The impatience argument holds some water, but it's a leaky ship too. I want to see Islam change with the modern world, and there are some promising indications it is - and also some scary indications that it isn't, that it's still conserving its darker aspects despite liberal educations even - but let me juxtapose your impatience argument with another thought, as I recall you are a conservative and oppose the Obama presidency:

Why don't you just be patient with Obama and give him some more time? He's only had a few years in office, not enough to really succeed or fail as a president yet, and he has a lot of challenges to overcome being black. Why don't you just give him a second term and a second chance, be more patient with him.

 

[MD]

The mixes of religious people on my street in my town arent burning, killing or protesting in the name of any religion.

So why is it in predominatly Near and Middle Eastern Muslem streets and cities?

Dont those people ever work? Also praying as much as they do hasnt stopped one murder or protest. Why not? Is ANY GOD LISTENING or are they always Praying for WARS?

You just answered your own questions and then added a bunch of questions that aren't really relevant to the topic at hand.

The fact that muslims don't riot in the west or in other countries like Indonesia, Malaysia or Turkey is because economically they are happier. The economies of the middle east have been completely ruined by foreign powers who prop up dictators. Also the middle east had a bunch of democratic leaders and nationalists who were either deposed or assasinated by the west because that way the west could not control their resources. Even Rumsfeld and Saddam hussein had a picture shaking hands!

Religion plays a part, but a small part. The rest is because of crappy historical interference and intelligence. If I had to blame anyone, it would be western intelligence agencies, the Saudis and the oil cartels.

 

[Awoon]

You just answered your own questions and then added a bunch of questions that aren't really relevant to the topic at hand.

The fact that muslims don't riot in the west or in other countries like Indonesia, Malaysia or Turkey is because economically they are happier. The economies of the middle east have been completely ruined by foreign powers who prop up dictators. Also the middle east had a bunch of democratic leaders and nationalists who were either deposed or assasinated by the west because that way the west could not control their resources. Even Rumsfeld and Saddam hussein had a picture shaking hands!

Religion plays a part, but a small part. The rest is because of crappy historical interference and intelligence. If I had to blame anyone, it would be western intelligence agencies, the Saudis and the oil cartels.

Propping up dictators and leaders has bitten the US in the a.. many times. But they were all of one religion or another, no? Saddam's foreign minister was a Christian wasnt he hung or shot. Seems the religious leaders are in cahoots regardless of the religion they follow.