sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I wouldn’t say it’s “plagiarized.” But earlier myths certainly were imported and brought forward.
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I Just Proved That Jesus Is A False Messiah In Less Than 5 Minutes
- Thread starter Only Reason
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74x12
Well-Known Member
According to John the baptist; God can even raise up stones into sons of Abraham. (Matthew 3:9) So if God can make a stone into the son of Abraham then how much more can he make Jesus the Son of David?
Yet Jesus was born of the virgin because he fulfilled prophecy. The prophecy says a virgin(young unmarried Jewish woman) would conceive. So any other claimants to Messiahship have a serious problem.
Also just because Mary is related to Elizabeth that doesn't mean she isn't descended from David. Fact: most people have two parents. Fact: therefore someone could be descended from both Aaron and David.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Actually you're wrong about what I think about that. Here's why: consciousness comes from God's ability to allow someone to think and feel as a human, or a lion, or a monkey. The Bible says that AFTER God formed Adam from the ground or dust, He breathed into his nostrils. When the FIRST HUMAN BODY was created. Without the breath from God, Adam would be just a conglomeration of molecules looking like a man, but without life. The absolutely first man. Not the first man evolving from an Unknown Common Ancestor. Gorillas and lions are conscious as well. But their ability is obviously different from that of humans. So yes, the question remains, do you believe that Adam and Eve and their descendants evolved from some unknown apelike ancestor, continuing to evolve as many scientists say, or were they created as uniquely distinct formed from the soil with God placing His breath in Adam's nostrils, thus making Adam the ADULT not a baby -- alive?
Jesus was born and was an infant. Mary and Anna were at one point in their lives also infants. Adam was not said to be an infant, ever, in the Bible. Therefore -- you figure it out about whether or not you believe Mary, Anna, and everyone else of the human homo sapien family evolved from -- an Unknown Common Ancestor.
Gorillas give birth to gorillas based on the law of genetics. Yes, the LAW of genetics. That is not changed to think that an unknown ape ancestor might have evolved to give birth to a super-gorilla that can think and talk like Einstein. That is different from the theory of evolution. Humans can give birth as well to those that are mentally or physically impaired. Or also those with super intelligence. So again -- did the human family evolve, including Anna and Mary, from what scientists say is an "Unknown Common Ancestor" connected to the ape family, including bonobos, chimpanzees and others like that? Or was the first couple, Adam and Eve, created by God directly? After all, those believing in the theory of evolution, also believe that humans are apes in the same category as bonobos, and gorillas.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The more I read the Bible, frankly, the clearer it becomes that it is not a made-up book, but accurate in its depiction and details.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
That doesn't surprise me because I used to believe the same thing about the Bible when I was still a Christian. But, after removing my rose-colored glasses and reexamining what I believed, I came to a completely different conclusion about the Bible's authenticity.
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YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I also had to examine my belief and find and decide that the Bible is a true characterization of what God wants us to know.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Two humans first is not named by a humans theist theory today. Reason. You weren't there.
As a human a thinking human and a scientist. Is living only. Now.
The body owner thinking position storyteller conscious biology human.
Two of human species adult. Living to be conscious human. Yourself. Now.
Existed before any of us now. As first two humans. The advice is living only.
As two humans not named is correct advice but by species type on earth is defined as the human. Word is human.
Two types of human had sex. Not named as anything but humans. The human.
Name by species on earth is a human.
Exact and correct use of the word. Origin terms only is direct advice is first. The word by term.
They weren't parents until they had sex. Baby human two of equal life born. Biology living to be human.
Parents two of first as human owned two babies.
Parents human plus first babies not us at all in any terms using human words now.
Thousands of years of human sex produced any human now.
Also by word name the species with God earth was the human. Exact as biology human.
As a human living biology on earth... earth naturally body reactive now is told. But it's not ground reactive. Now. Human as biology the human standing actual upon on ground mass.
Ground mass direct not any human.
Human totally separate to ground mass.
Exact correct advice in any thinking human term.
Now today a human as first parents has been a long time dead. Yet we adult humans living are first species. Human. Now. We use human memory now present and ancient advised.
Science theism living human says correct thinking advice only. Now says now exact....they only exist as first parents as microbes. What is left of first just humans life. Life. Two parents.
Telling the truth only.
If a human said God created life from a ground mass reaction the heavens is involved too.
We only live after the ice age now is exact. No bible.
So nature already existed. No animals as dinosaurs are extinct. Just nature.
Ice and water sealed a volcanic reactive earth. Part of dinosaur death causes plus huge reactive reactions. Killed off bio life. Exact advice bio life died on a reactive ground in heavens mass. On gods earth.
So if your going to tell a theists human truth you don't read the bible. Human advice you observe information for yourself. As a living human is the theist storyteller.
Owning no argument.
So as we know machines record human image and voice now then transmits it machine to machine ....it's owned in the heavens by machines only. Place transmitters. Heavens body.
Taken however from ground mass to cause.
Humans controlling design model. Gained it from ground mass. Machine.
The answer.
So if you say correct advice as its biological science. A living human does. Says it all now living.
You claim a human came as an image and voice direct into biology. From dust. A humans claim.
Yet a dust reacting now science human living says is nuclear. To transmit.
Dust is holier than a reaction. Nuclear burns biology to death. Exact.
So if a human quotes to see dust on the ground it changed and a human image emerged. It is the first identity a machine theist used for modern machine design.
As it was understood. As machines before human designed had caused it.
Remembering water microbes already living owned sealed dust.
Dust holy position is a fixed place advice dust is holy only not reacting.
You can't get a transitory effect unless the dust changed.
In natural life the dust remains sealed to not hurt bio life. We claim dust is holy as dust. Exact.
Science says it belongs to the machine. Image. Recorded.
Your memory says your parents are dead completely decomposed as origin life. Base water now with microbes sealed dusts and sealed rock. Once we're Living humans.
So a dead human by terms in water microbes had sealed dusts. Exact correct advice.
Ice kept both sealed and non reactive. Ice isn't bio life ..ice is as the saviour. You lied. Theist machine builder.
They didn't form life human from an image and voice recording which is left only after you die.
Proven as a life record by human psychics who know bio life is dec eased to read about the life via image and voice.
No argument is allowed in science as living humans body existing on earth is by human sex only.
To theory where first humans came from as a human is lying. As they are human first yourself. Living position.
Not in any word use are you not talking about yourself. Human.
No theist for a machines purpose uses the thesis human sex owns human life. As it's known already.
If you theory dusts to machines as the human first only human it says as a living human to use in machines as images only.
A lying human theist talking about dead humans however wants you to believe a living history man life is from dust.
As they thesis dust direct to machine before a humans life yet they are living.
As they convert the dusts themselves.
Coercion. If I make you believe you are dust first you won't realise I'm attacking sacrificing your life as I react dusts by machines.
I claim as a man human I'm God. I own all powers of God as a scientist human.
I claim I own the dusts as a greedy man's status..if I convince you I'm both God a man and dusts and sexual conceived of your life baby adult you won't argue to stop science.
As humans had stopped science.
Why human's said human observation is science. Not theism.
Theism is just a belief.
A reaction applied by a human is direct reactive science. To earth ground plus their machine.
Humans react dusts themselves.
Hence the preaching is false as the end summation said why no man is God.
A healthy man in presence doesn't own a beginning nor do they own an end.
A human is seen instant human totally.
A healthy man ends in human death only.
Before a human as less than a living human by type no human present is apes.
As only living humans infer stories.
Our parents now aren't the first two humans as parents as they are dead.
Physical causes is a part of the scientific conclusions now also. Not read in the bible theme.
Lying.
They claim today I'm talking about the first two humans. Lying.
The testimony was humans witness to when the first human image voice recording was caused by dusts. Present to witness it occur.
Oxygen nature garden owned presence to own support living life human. Oxygen was used to cause the image. Was the statement wouldn't have occurred otherwise.
In just natural water history earth stone was sealed cooled by just water no image. When it was reacting mass.
Nature is grounded in a non reacting ground mass.
If a human says as a living thinking human story and God created a man out of the dusts. Then a woman out of his rib.
Burning gases produces flayings at its side burning. I know I saw it myself.
Is not physical life. Humans were witness to very old cloud images falling out burning. In new yet old human technology.
Technology that had a very long time ago destroyed all life on earth
It's why ice age man by star fall brain burnt heard the recorded voice first.
As the occurrence has happened three times already. For human witness.
As trees oxygenator nature body doesn't talk.
You can't talk about trees unless the tree in nature existed.
As before any subject none of the subjects a human uses existed.
As what is a tree by God terms when not a tree. And as you story theme the tree is present the whole time.
It's termed lying by want not by reality.
Only living humans claim it real. Owning human life.
God didn't create your human life by those terms. Human sex has.
The story never said how two human parents as lots of humans in various countries owned life.
If you theme God two by two. The theme would claim then god two by two as two humans created a whole amount of human life by human paired population. Equally. Not just two only humans species term only.
And it doesn't
A human themes as if only one by two a species formed. As only two of any species. Proving a man theist told the story living.
Yet to quantify species exist they do exist.
If species by two is life as sacrificed constantly then image recording of all species would be occurring by image and voice sound.
What God dust nuclear reactions is causing. Loss not living.
Breathing is exact is an action owned naturally. You cannot discuss it before it's owned to understand what breathing is.
Total summation testimony written to state why life was sacrificed only. The creation cause of it.
As a human a thinking human and a scientist. Is living only. Now.
The body owner thinking position storyteller conscious biology human.
Two of human species adult. Living to be conscious human. Yourself. Now.
Existed before any of us now. As first two humans. The advice is living only.
As two humans not named is correct advice but by species type on earth is defined as the human. Word is human.
Two types of human had sex. Not named as anything but humans. The human.
Name by species on earth is a human.
Exact and correct use of the word. Origin terms only is direct advice is first. The word by term.
They weren't parents until they had sex. Baby human two of equal life born. Biology living to be human.
Parents two of first as human owned two babies.
Parents human plus first babies not us at all in any terms using human words now.
Thousands of years of human sex produced any human now.
Also by word name the species with God earth was the human. Exact as biology human.
As a human living biology on earth... earth naturally body reactive now is told. But it's not ground reactive. Now. Human as biology the human standing actual upon on ground mass.
Ground mass direct not any human.
Human totally separate to ground mass.
Exact correct advice in any thinking human term.
Now today a human as first parents has been a long time dead. Yet we adult humans living are first species. Human. Now. We use human memory now present and ancient advised.
Science theism living human says correct thinking advice only. Now says now exact....they only exist as first parents as microbes. What is left of first just humans life. Life. Two parents.
Telling the truth only.
If a human said God created life from a ground mass reaction the heavens is involved too.
We only live after the ice age now is exact. No bible.
So nature already existed. No animals as dinosaurs are extinct. Just nature.
Ice and water sealed a volcanic reactive earth. Part of dinosaur death causes plus huge reactive reactions. Killed off bio life. Exact advice bio life died on a reactive ground in heavens mass. On gods earth.
So if your going to tell a theists human truth you don't read the bible. Human advice you observe information for yourself. As a living human is the theist storyteller.
Owning no argument.
So as we know machines record human image and voice now then transmits it machine to machine ....it's owned in the heavens by machines only. Place transmitters. Heavens body.
Taken however from ground mass to cause.
Humans controlling design model. Gained it from ground mass. Machine.
The answer.
So if you say correct advice as its biological science. A living human does. Says it all now living.
You claim a human came as an image and voice direct into biology. From dust. A humans claim.
Yet a dust reacting now science human living says is nuclear. To transmit.
Dust is holier than a reaction. Nuclear burns biology to death. Exact.
So if a human quotes to see dust on the ground it changed and a human image emerged. It is the first identity a machine theist used for modern machine design.
As it was understood. As machines before human designed had caused it.
Remembering water microbes already living owned sealed dust.
Dust holy position is a fixed place advice dust is holy only not reacting.
You can't get a transitory effect unless the dust changed.
In natural life the dust remains sealed to not hurt bio life. We claim dust is holy as dust. Exact.
Science says it belongs to the machine. Image. Recorded.
Your memory says your parents are dead completely decomposed as origin life. Base water now with microbes sealed dusts and sealed rock. Once we're Living humans.
So a dead human by terms in water microbes had sealed dusts. Exact correct advice.
Ice kept both sealed and non reactive. Ice isn't bio life ..ice is as the saviour. You lied. Theist machine builder.
They didn't form life human from an image and voice recording which is left only after you die.
Proven as a life record by human psychics who know bio life is dec eased to read about the life via image and voice.
No argument is allowed in science as living humans body existing on earth is by human sex only.
To theory where first humans came from as a human is lying. As they are human first yourself. Living position.
Not in any word use are you not talking about yourself. Human.
No theist for a machines purpose uses the thesis human sex owns human life. As it's known already.
If you theory dusts to machines as the human first only human it says as a living human to use in machines as images only.
A lying human theist talking about dead humans however wants you to believe a living history man life is from dust.
As they thesis dust direct to machine before a humans life yet they are living.
As they convert the dusts themselves.
Coercion. If I make you believe you are dust first you won't realise I'm attacking sacrificing your life as I react dusts by machines.
I claim as a man human I'm God. I own all powers of God as a scientist human.
I claim I own the dusts as a greedy man's status..if I convince you I'm both God a man and dusts and sexual conceived of your life baby adult you won't argue to stop science.
As humans had stopped science.
Why human's said human observation is science. Not theism.
Theism is just a belief.
A reaction applied by a human is direct reactive science. To earth ground plus their machine.
Humans react dusts themselves.
Hence the preaching is false as the end summation said why no man is God.
A healthy man in presence doesn't own a beginning nor do they own an end.
A human is seen instant human totally.
A healthy man ends in human death only.
Before a human as less than a living human by type no human present is apes.
As only living humans infer stories.
Our parents now aren't the first two humans as parents as they are dead.
Physical causes is a part of the scientific conclusions now also. Not read in the bible theme.
Lying.
They claim today I'm talking about the first two humans. Lying.
The testimony was humans witness to when the first human image voice recording was caused by dusts. Present to witness it occur.
Oxygen nature garden owned presence to own support living life human. Oxygen was used to cause the image. Was the statement wouldn't have occurred otherwise.
In just natural water history earth stone was sealed cooled by just water no image. When it was reacting mass.
Nature is grounded in a non reacting ground mass.
If a human says as a living thinking human story and God created a man out of the dusts. Then a woman out of his rib.
Burning gases produces flayings at its side burning. I know I saw it myself.
Is not physical life. Humans were witness to very old cloud images falling out burning. In new yet old human technology.
Technology that had a very long time ago destroyed all life on earth
It's why ice age man by star fall brain burnt heard the recorded voice first.
As the occurrence has happened three times already. For human witness.
As trees oxygenator nature body doesn't talk.
You can't talk about trees unless the tree in nature existed.
As before any subject none of the subjects a human uses existed.
As what is a tree by God terms when not a tree. And as you story theme the tree is present the whole time.
It's termed lying by want not by reality.
Only living humans claim it real. Owning human life.
God didn't create your human life by those terms. Human sex has.
The story never said how two human parents as lots of humans in various countries owned life.
If you theme God two by two. The theme would claim then god two by two as two humans created a whole amount of human life by human paired population. Equally. Not just two only humans species term only.
And it doesn't
A human themes as if only one by two a species formed. As only two of any species. Proving a man theist told the story living.
Yet to quantify species exist they do exist.
If species by two is life as sacrificed constantly then image recording of all species would be occurring by image and voice sound.
What God dust nuclear reactions is causing. Loss not living.
Breathing is exact is an action owned naturally. You cannot discuss it before it's owned to understand what breathing is.
Total summation testimony written to state why life was sacrificed only. The creation cause of it.
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joelr
Well-Known Member
Yes, I am not an expert on the Persian religion. You JUST BLAMED ME OF MAKING STUFF UP?!?!?!?!?!?! You just did that? So I demonstrated I did not and am going by the leading scholars in the field.
Your response is some weird goal-post move? How about an honest response? Do they teach honesty in scripture? How about, "ok you didn't make it up" for a start?
Of course they are writings from someone else? Do you expect I got a PhD in ancient Iran and then lived with modern Zoroastrians for 1 year? Mary Boyce did and we can learn from her work.
How dare you comment on the fact that those are writings from someone else when your entire belief system is based on stories written by someone else?
Yes the Church used the term "pagan" to mean all other religions. But the historical fact remains that all of the NT theology is Greek and Persian. Savior demigods were supposed to be miraculous individuals. But they are characters in stories. There may be truth in the NT. Jesus may have been a Rabbi teaching Hillilite philosophy, he may have been executed. But the Gospel narratives are as mythical as stories about Krishna or any other deity.
joelr
Well-Known Member
That isn't what the evidence shows.
Members of Islam and Hinduism also believe Allah/Krishna has led them to study scripture, has a personal relation with them, speaks to them in their hearts and so on, has changed their lives and so on.
This is a known psychological effect.
I had a GF in Islam and she did not care 1 iota about OT historicity and archaeology saying Moses and the Patriarchs are myth and the flood/creation is Mesopotamian and so on. All she knew was Allah led her and spoke to her that her religion was the only true religion and Jesus was only a prophet and the message got messed up and Americans were so sad and misled. She knew 100% because Allah speaks through her heart. Never budged.
Psychology.
joelr
Well-Known Member
What God? The God from mythology? Did you just leave out the entire Hominid line? Yes humans are apes. The fossil record shows millions of years of slowly evolving hominids. Eventually they lost body hair as a cooling system, began eating more protein which increased brain size and the last Homo species before us, Heidelburgensis, wore clothes, had tools, weapons, and buried their dead.
Yes humans evolved. Chimps have a type of consciousness. The millions of years of evolving hominids slowly became more intelligent because that trait actually helped us survive. Each hominid in the line was smarter and more like us.
Based on scientific interpretation of archaeological, genetic, and linguistic evidence, most scholars consider Genesis to be primarily mythological rather than historical.
Tradition credits Moses as the author of Genesis, as well as the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and most of Deuteronomy; however, modern scholars, especially from the 19th century onward, place the books' authorship in the 6th and 5th centuries BC, hundreds of years after Moses is supposed to have lived
Book of Genesis - Wikipedia
Outside of fundamentalism/creationism Christians do not believe Genesis is literal. It's clearly re-working Mesopotamian myths as scholars often point out. The vast majority of Christians believe in evolution. Creationism is not going to last.
The myth underwent extensive elaboration in later Abrahamic traditions, and it has been extensively analyzed by modern biblical scholars.
The opening chapters of the Book of Genesis provide a mythic history of the infiltration of evil into the world.[
While a traditional view was that the Book of Genesis was authored by Moses and has been considered historical and metaphorical, modern scholars consider the Genesis creation narrative as one of various ancient origin myths.[59][60]
Analysis like the documentary hypothesis also suggests that the text is a result of the compilation of multiple previous traditions, explaining apparent contradictions.[61][62] Other stories of the same canonical book, like the Genesis flood narrative, are also understood as having been influenced by older literature, with parallels in the older Epic of Gilgamesh.[63]
And as usual you either refuse to understand evolution or can't grasp it and come up with straw man arguments that are not even related to what evolution really is?
joelr
Well-Known Member
I don't think you examined your beliefs at all. You just decided they were true and there was no need to go any further.
The Adam and Eve myth is originally from an older culture but the theme of humans creating their suffering is a common creation myth trope
Gods Creating Suffering
According to some myths the suffering in the world today was the result of human folly. However, many myths site a god as being the reason the earth is not a paradise.
The Greeks believed that fire was a gift from the god Prometheus, who wanted them to have something to make them superior to animals. However, humans had to pay for the actions of Prometheus. In an effort to make life better for mankind he placed Zeus' wrath upon them and with this came suffering. Therefore, Prometheus was responsible for the troubles which still plague the Earth.
The Japanese gods Izanagi and Izanami had three children, one of whom was a troublemaker. This god they sentenced to the seas, so that he would not damage their islands. There his anger appeared in the form of tidal waves and storms, which still threaten the islands of Japan.
The Sky Woman of the Iroquois creation myth bore two twin boys, Sapling and Flint. One was kind and the other cruel. The hard-hearted god spent his time creating the hardships that stand in the way of humans. He constantly ruined his brother's work and created problems his twin was forced to fix. If Sapling had been an only child life would not have the hardships it now has.
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Colt
Well-Known Member
You said "There is no such thing as "pagan" religions." Thats not a good way to start! I could only conclude that you made up such an rash statement! There are Pagans on this forum! Then you claimed authoritatively that Mark made up Joseph and Mary?
joelr
Well-Known Member
Well "Pagan" in the sense of the way the church uses it isn't correct. As such people who think they follow Pagan religions are usually offshoots of the same religions that Christianity came from.
But if modern religions want to call themselves Pagan I have no problem with that. I was talking about the use of the term in the early days of Christianity. Calling Mystery religions "pagan" when Christianity is a mystery religion?
The scholarship on Mark is becoming very strong that everything he wrote was not oral tradition but narratives from other sources. Mark was creating earthly narratives using Paul, older fiction and Greek/Persian/Jewish theology.
"
Most of what Jesus is “known” for today comes from these later fabrications intended to override the original version of Jesus found in Mark. Mark gets mostly ignored. And yet his myth started it all, a lifetime after the fact, decades after Paul wrote his Epistles, which in turn were written decades after Jesus would supposedly have lived. And other than revelatory or theological data, and material not actually from or about Jesus, we actually can trace nothing in Mark to any sources prior. He appears to have created the whole thing. This is not a popular opinion in Biblical scholarship, which is still hung up on a desperate certainty that Mark must have been working from some collection of oral traditions; but that certainty is actually based on no evidence. And nothing based on no evidence should ever be treated as “certain.”
I demonstrate the mythic nature of Mark’s narrative—and why he was not simply collecting oral lore but constructing a deliberate, coherent mythograph from beginning to end—in Chapter 10 of On the Historicity of Jesus. I likewise demonstrate that attempts to “rescue” from Mark’s mythic narrative some kernels of supposedly historical fact all lack logical validity in Chapter 5 of Proving History.
All of this becomes more potent if we conclude Mark even as likely as not used Paul for much of his stories. So what is the evidence he may have done so?
Leading Scholarship
The principal works to consult on this (all of which from peer reviewed academic presses) are:
- Michael Bird & Joel Willitts, Paul and the Gospels: Christologies, Conflicts and Convergences (T&T Clark 2011)
- David Oliver Smith, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Paul: The Influence of the Epistles on the Synoptic Gospels (Resource 2011)
- Tom Dykstra, Mark: Canonizer of Paul (OCABS 2012)
- Oda Wischmeyer & David Sim, eds., Paul and Mark: Two Authors at the Beginnings of Christianity (de Gruyter 2014)
- Eve-Marie Becker et al., Mark and Paul: For and Against Pauline Influence on Mark (de Gruyter 2014)
- Thomas Nelligan, The Quest for Mark’s Sources: An Exploration of the Case for Mark’s Use of First Corinthians (Pickwick 2015)
Depicting Jesus as teaching through “parables” appears to be an invention of Mark. It’s nowhere in Paul (or 1 Peter or Hebrews or 1 Clement or any earlier account of how and what Jesus taught). Mark is thus the most likely inventor of that technique, which later Evangelists picked up and riffed on, building their own parables on Mark’s model and attributing them to their versions of Jesus. Occam’s Razor leads to no other conclusion. No evidence of any kind leads to any other conclusion.
Mark composed his mythical tale of Jesus using many different sources: most definitely the Septuagint, possibly even Homer, and, here we can see, probably also Paul’s Epistles. From these, and his own creative impulses, he weaved together a coherent string of implausible tales in which neither people nor nature behave the way they would in reality, each and every one with allegorical meaning or missionary purpose. Once we account for all this material, there is very little left. In fact, really, nothing left.
We have very good evidence for all these sources. For example, that Mark emulates stories and lifts ideas from the Psalms, Deuteronomy, the Kings literature, and so on, is well established and not rationally deniable. That he likewise lifts from and riffs on Paul’s Epistles is, as you can now see, fairly hard to deny. By contrast, we have exactly no evidence whatever that anything in Mark came to him by oral tradition. It is thus curious that anyone still assumes some of it did. That Mark’s sources and methods were literary is well proved. That any of his sources or methods were oral in character is, by contrast, a baseless presumption. Objective, honest scholarship will have to acknowledge this someday.
Dr Carrier
Mark's Use of Paul's Epistles • Richard Carrier the bulk of this article (peer-reviewed) focuses on Marks use of Paul and his mythic literary style.
Colt
Well-Known Member
I agree with some of the conclusions above. Jesus deliberately left no writings. There was even a sense among his followers that Jesus would "soon return" from heaven to fulfill the expectations of a "Jewish Messiah". The writings began and are in no way perfect, but there was enough there to inspire subsequent generations of believers combined with the presence of the spirit of Jesus among his followers.
You think of god as a material thing, that has a form. It doesn't.
What you seem to forget is that form comes from carnal parents. The spirit comes from the Spirit. You're worried about the form . Why?
John 3:6
https://web.oru.edu/current_student...ertation/1.3.1 Messianic Proph 1st Advent.pdf
Hypertext link, above, says that the prophecy of a Messiah is in many Old Testament chapters.
When I found this, I was looking for a translation of the earliest Messianic prophecy.
Even modern Prophets of God have trails that are confusing and difficult to follow. Perhaps this was by God's design. Many of these modern Prophets, by the way, are my personal friends, and had been renowned psychics prior to being chosen by God to see future events of the end times, and warn us not to make war with Iraq. Like the bible (Revelation), they describe the presidents of the United States as Satanic demons from the Sulpher bottomless pit of hell (Dragon, and son Beast). After reading biblical descriptions of the attackers of Babylon, it seems obvious that the US would have a torture camp in Guantanamo.
I am still very interested in finding documents with the original Messianic prophecies. As far as I know, the earliest documents were all destroyed, including the earliest Old Testament bibles. All was reconstructed from memory.
Exaltist Ethan
Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
Have you ever considered that it doesn't really matter what prophecies the Jews come up with to describe their Messiah but rather what it more important is what the "prophet" did while he was alive?
Jesus was a carpenter, poor, Jewish and spoke of and taught parables. There is even a good chance that he is a legend and never existed. It doesn't matter if he did though. Why? He inspired countless generations of Catholics, Christians and Protestants to create a better world for us all. Jesus marks all five points of divinity within my Exaltist teachings. Utility, generosity, sagacity, sovereignty and unity.
And because he was poor most people can relate to him. He is an exemplifier of human divinity and regardless of him being a real person he is extremely important to know and understand. The only reason why I don't consider myself a Christian is because I see that there's a lot of people besides Jesus who also holds the same divine qualities. I don't believe there is one Jesus or one Messiah - I believe the Messiah is within all of us.
Omg I'm a Quaker. xD
Jesus was a carpenter, poor, Jewish and spoke of and taught parables. There is even a good chance that he is a legend and never existed. It doesn't matter if he did though. Why? He inspired countless generations of Catholics, Christians and Protestants to create a better world for us all. Jesus marks all five points of divinity within my Exaltist teachings. Utility, generosity, sagacity, sovereignty and unity.
And because he was poor most people can relate to him. He is an exemplifier of human divinity and regardless of him being a real person he is extremely important to know and understand. The only reason why I don't consider myself a Christian is because I see that there's a lot of people besides Jesus who also holds the same divine qualities. I don't believe there is one Jesus or one Messiah - I believe the Messiah is within all of us.
Omg I'm a Quaker. xD
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I realize that. I live in an area of the world where I could study almost any religion I wanted to without persecution. Actually I didn't choose. God chose me, I see that now. I don't ask you to believe or agree with that but I'm glad I'm at where I'm at. I have looked into other religions. At a certain point however I did need to make a decision.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I think of God as He describes himself in the Bible by means of inspired writings.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So according to your belief, Adam and Eve did not evolve from other type apes, right?