I kill kittens.

[McBell]

You're kidding yourself if you think that there was no pain.

Based on what?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Based on what?

Reality.

 

[Revoltingest]

Reality.

There's a lame criterion....another way of saying, "It's obvious!".
I figure that the time between the shovel starting contact & the
shovel finishing its job is less than a hundredth of a second. I
know from experience with hot exhaust pipes that I don't feel
pain that fast. Now those are a very compelling reality!

 

[McBell]

Reality.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

There's a lame criterion....another way of saying, "It's obvious!".
I figure that the time between the shovel starting contact & the
shovel finishing its job is less than a hundredth of a second. I
know from experience with hot exhaust pipes that I don't feel
pain that fast. Now those are a very compelling reality!

But you're not a kitten.

 

[Mister_T]

I really can't help but think that there was a less cruel and more humane way of dealing with the kittens. They have animal shelters and pet shops that would gladly take them.

On a side note, I'm glad we don't deal with people this way.

 

[Revoltingest]

But you're not a kitten.

That's not what you whisper into my ear at nite, fella.

 

[Revoltingest]

I really can't help but think that there was a less cruel and more humane way of dealing with the kittens. They have animal shelters and pet shops that would gladly take them.

Sudden & violent though the act was, where is the cruelty? Is a lethal does of some gov't
administered Kevorkianesque brew any different, other than social acceptability?
(Btw, no pet shop in this area would take'm. A glut on the market they are.)

 

[Twilight Hue]

I would have much rather used a firearm if there was no alternative, but definitely would have weighed out alternate solutions such a cheap ad for free kittens for example.

Personally I love cats and kittens, barn cats are really a great asset, and would only be persuaded to kill them if they ever were mortally wounded, say by a dog, fox, or raccoon etc.

On a side note, this thread kind of reminds me of that soldier in Iraq who killed a puppy by throwing it over a cliff that was plastered over You Tube.

All the same, I agree fully with Mystic that this, for better or worse, is that part of life that must be accepted as it plays out. Uncomfortable as it feels. -NM-

 

[ChristineES]

I don't judge when I don't know what I would do in the same situation, if it ever happened to me.

Things have been too quiet here lately, so it's time to ruffle some feathers....or raise some fur.
Hypothetically....suppose I once found a family of very young kittens living in a car (an open convertible) stored in my barn. Certainly, I wouldn't let my customer
have his car soiled by their living arrangements, so I presume I must remove them. They wouldn't survive in the wild, even with mom's help so I thought I should
do something. My solution (which is legal where I live): I'd take a large shovel & quickly euthanized (executed? murdered? killed?) each one. (And yes, for those
who want the gory details, their little intestines would squirted out & get me.) I wouldn't want to take them to the Humane Society, since they'd want money from
me just to do the same thing, but more expensively....& they'd whine for donations.
So....was this hypothetical solution:
1) Right
2) Wrong
3) Neither, but you'd do the same
4) Neither, but you'd do differently

Btw, I didn't enjoy it, but I don't feel bad about it either, since my plan was to minimize suffering.

Note: Edited for legal reasons.

 

[McBell]

Animals are born. Animals die. Humans are born. Humans die.

Living on a farm, especially a working livestock one, exposes you to a) the above facts, and b) the understanding that sometimes the range of available choices are not what you want to choose from, but the choices must still be made. If the choices are either ignored or avoided, the situation will become worse, the available choices worse, and the end result is more suffering than if you had chosen one of the originally unpleasant choices.

Frubals for an excellent post.

 

[Mister_T]

Sudden & violent though the act was, where is the cruelty? Is a lethal does of some gov't
administered Kevorkianesque brew any different, other than social acceptability?
(Btw, no pet shop in this area would take'm. A glut on the market they are.)

The answer to that is in your own response: Violently. I think anybody would consider smashing animals with a shovel an act of cruelty. Euthenizing an animal is far more humane. There's a reason why we give lethal injection to people like serial killers and child murders, as opposed to putting them in a guillotine or a bullet to the head.

I also can't really buy that NO pet shops in the area would take the kittens. Even here in L.A. where animals are running wild on city streets is common, there are pet shops that will still take them.

 

[Kerr]

Things have been too quiet here lately, so it's time to ruffle some feathers....or raise some fur.
Hypothetically....suppose I once found a family of very young kittens living in a car (an open convertible) stored in my barn. Certainly, I wouldn't let my customer
have his car soiled by their living arrangements, so I presume I must remove them. They wouldn't survive in the wild, even with mom's help so I thought I should
do something. My solution (which is legal where I live): I'd take a large shovel & quickly euthanized (executed? murdered? killed?) each one. (And yes, for those
who want the gory details, their little intestines would squirted out & get me.) I wouldn't want to take them to the Humane Society, since they'd want money from
me just to do the same thing, but more expensively....& they'd whine for donations.
So....was this hypothetical solution:
1) Right
2) Wrong
3) Neither, but you'd do the same
4) Neither, but you'd do differently

Btw, I didn't enjoy it, but I don't feel bad about it either, since my plan was to minimize suffering.

Note: Edited for legal reasons.

I cannot say I favor killing kittens with a shovel :no:.

EDIT:

I do understand why you would, in this hypothetical situation, make that choice. I would just try and find a way which involved no killing.

 

[Revoltingest]

The answer to that is in your own response: Violently. I think anybody would consider smashing animals with a shovel an act of cruelty. Euthenizing an animal is far more humane. There's a reason why we give lethal injection to people like serial killers and child murders, as opposed to putting them in a guillotine or a bullet to the head.

So by your standard, it isn't about pain, but rather how grisly the act appears, eh? (That would make major surgery cruel, even with effective anesthetics.)
That's one way to see it, & no less right or wrong than mine. My goal is to minimize suffering, with reliability & convenience. I didn't have a syringe
& any drugs, but I did have a shovel & exceptional facility with it.

Note though, that while Utah state executioners won't deliver a bullet to the head, they will shoot for the heart. Personally, I'd rather have a bullet to
the head for less likelihood of suffering. That dead heart won't stop brain activity right away. For me, compassion is more about how the subject feels,
rather then a queasy observer.

I also can't really buy that NO pet shops in the area would take the kittens. Even here in L.A. where animals are running wild on city streets is common, there are pet shops that will still take them.

You're welcome to go back in time to about 1997 & visit here to debunk my claim.
I stand by what I recall about the event.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

They wouldn't survive in the wild, even with mom's help so I thought I should
do something.

Yes, because there are no such thing as wild cats. I hope somebody smashes your head in with a shovel.

 

[Mister_T]

So by your standard, it isn't about pain, but rather how grisly the act appears, eh? (That would make surgery cruel, even with effective anesthetics.)
That's one way to see it, & no less right or wrong than mine. My goal is to minimize suffering, with reliability & convenience. I didn't have a syringe
& any drugs, but I did have a shovel & exceptional facility with it.

Well first, it's not my standard, it's just one that I agree with. Secondly, you don't know if the kittens felt any pain or not, since you were not the one being smashed with a shovel. Thirdly, not all acts of cruelty involve grisly acts of violence, like watching someone drown and not helping them (drowning is another painless way to die, btw). As for the last part, like I said: Pet Shops or Animal Shelters.

Note though, that while Utah state executioners won't deliver a bullet to the head, they will shoot for the heart. I'd rather have a bullet to the head for
less likelihood of suffering. For me, compassion is more about how the subject feels, rather then a queasy observer.

I wasn't aware that we still shot people as a form of execution in this country. I thought it was all lethal injection?

You're welcome to go back in time to about 1997 & visit here to debunk my claim.
I stand by what I recall about the event.

So you went around to every pet shop in your area and checked? It doesn't sound like you even tried that method or any other alternative at all, and just made up your mind you were going to take care of them with a shovel right then and there.

 

[Revoltingest]

....drowning is another painless way to die....

That seems wrong. Water boarding is such horrible torture precisely because it feels like (is?) drowning.
I've heard interviews with people who had themselves subjected to it. If was far worse than they imagined.

I wasn't aware that we still shot people as a form of execution in this country. I thought it was all lethal injection?

I just found out that Utah recently banned it, although a few inmates are "grandfathered in" for it.

So you went around to every pet shop in your area....

Now, now...nitpicking the details is uninteresting. This is about larger issues
& values. Let's not wallow in trying to to win some argument about minutiae.

 

[Mister_T]

That seems wrong. Water boarding is such horrible torture precisely because it feels like (is?) drowning.
I've heard interviews with people who had themselves subjected to it. If was far worse than they imagined.

Well I guess waterboarding is a way of drowning. I was thinking more though of someone drowning in a pool or a lake which seems like it could be different. Supposedly it's very peaceful.

I just found out that Utah recently banned it, although a few inmates are "grandfathered in" for it.

Interesting.

Now, now...nitpicking the details is uninteresting. This is about larger issues
& values. Let's not wallow in trying to to win some argument about minutiae.

It's not nitpicking or a minute detail, it's getting you to defend your claim that no pet shops in your area were taking any kittens since that was the excuse you gave for taking them out with shovel as the alternative; Let's not try and dance around the reason for doing so.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well I guess waterboarding is a way of drowning. I was thinking more though of someone drowning in a pool or a lake which seems like it could be different. Supposedly it's very peaceful.

Interesting.

It's not nitpicking or a minute detail, it's getting you to defend your claim that no pet shops in your area were taking any kittens since that was the excuse you gave for taking them out with shovel as the alternative; Let's not try and dance around the reason for doing so.

I don't defend my claims. I merely stated what I did (hypothetically) & why.
You're welcome to dislike my actions & reasons....but not to be boring & tedious about it.

You know....if you want a Yoda avatar, then talk like him you must.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

Well I guess waterboarding is a way of drowning. I was thinking more though of someone drowning in a pool or a lake which seems like it could be different. Supposedly it's very peaceful.

Take it from someone who has nearly drowned twice, it isn't at all peaceful or painless. When you start inhaling water you reflexively try to cough, causing you to inhale more water. Your sinuses burn like wild fire as the water hits them and your lungs feel like they're being ripped apart from the inside. There's nothing peaceful about it. You're basically choking to death. Passing out from lack of oxygen is the most merciful part about it.

tl:dr - Drowning hurts like hell.