I never knew that I was a victim of racism.

[Subduction Zone]

"Republicans thought the same about Trump"

That is a classic "so what" argument lol

Nope, I am not the one deflecting.

You really have to learn how to argue. Parroting arguments that are beyond you is not a winning strategy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I underlined the problematic qualifier.

"Affirmative" is a positive sounding prefix designed
to manipulate. "Action" is so broad as to be without
much meaning, other than to hide the fact that this
is intentional discrimination based upon race & sex.

Parsing definitions, & gussying up labels doesn't
change the fundamental race & sex discrimination.
But it helps "progressive" fans feel relieved about
using discrimination to achieve good (for some at
the expense of others).

But let's set aside the etymological arguments.
Discrimination on the basis of race is prohibited
by the 14th Amendment. Many believe that
racial discrimination is useful to change society
into what they want. But is their approach moral
&/or legal?
I find that allowing government to get away with
unconstitutional acts & policies is dangerous.
And discrimination on the basis of race is wrong.
Hence my opposition to affirmative action.

I understand the use of terms to sell the concept. But here is the important part that you keep ignoring:

They are right.

 

[Revoltingest]

I understand the use of terms to sell the concept. But here is the important part that you keep ignoring:

They are right.

They're aren't right.
They're not even wrong.

Are you one of those moral absolutists
who thinks his beliefs are The Truth?

 

[Subduction Zone]

They're aren't right.
They're not even wrong.

Are you one of those moral absolutists
who thinks his beliefs are The Truth?

No, I do not believe that. Why stoop to personal attacks?

 

[Revoltingest]

No, I do not believe that. Why stoop to personal attacks?

To say that people are "right" about subjective
matters about values does raise the question
of your belief about subjectivity vs objectivity.

If you think that question (unanswered, BTW)
is a personal attack, you ain't seen nuthin yet.
I could dis your reasoning ability, & even your
small shoe size.

 

[Subduction Zone]

To say that people are "right" about subjective
matters about values does raise the question
of your belief about subjectivity vs objectivity.

If you think that question (unanswered, BTW)
is a personal attack, you ain't seen nuthin yet.
I could dis your reasoning ability, & even your
small shoe size.

Or it could just mean that one side has supported their arguments very well and that the other has not.

 

[Revoltingest]

Or it could just mean that one side has supported their arguments very well and that the other has not.

Still not answering the question I see.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Still not answering the question I see.

Maybe you should try to ask it properly.

 

[PureX]

No it’s not; Berkley is a state college and at state colleges you are not allowed to discriminate against based on race

The students are not the state college. They can form whatever groups they want based on whatever criteria they want. The only issue would be if they are demanding special or exceptional support from the college.

White people aren’t doing this, Racist minorities are!

White people have always done it. There are countless thousands of groups and clubs and business and neighborhood associations created by white people for the purpose of promoting the agendas of the white people involved in them. I'll bet if you looked around you'd find ten of them right in your own area. And although they'll claim they aren't racists, you won't find a non-white face among them. Because the agendas they are pushing only really appeal or apply to white people.

I’m not talking bout what happened many years ago, I’m talking about what’s happening NOW.

So am I. Open your eyes. Like-minded people tend to associate with like-minded people. And when they do, they tend to act together to promote their own well-being, often at the expense of outsiders. Why are you offended by this? Humans have been this way from their most primitive beginnings. We are a selfish, clannish, self-centered species. If we aren't contending over race, it's over gender, or money, or religion, or politics, or ethnic history, or who knows what else.

White people are just now discovering this? Even after they been engaged in it for eons? And especially so here in the U.S.?

If a group of white racists at a college were allowed by staff, to take over a highly traffic pathway forcing non-whites from entering; forcing them to enter through the back due to a perceived need for white safe spaces, would you defend this practice?

Breaking laws protecting us all from each other regardless of race or class or gender or religion or politics or whatever else is criminal behavior, no matter who does it. It's simply NOT a race issue. It's a crime issue. Because it's a citizen's rights issue.

Your trying to change the subject. Why someone commits a crime is irrelevant to the issue of a crime having been committed.

Some years back some redneck Trump-tards in the south had taken to driving around in their giant pickup trucks with rebel flags and Trump flags shouting ugly threats at black people trying to frighten and intimidate them, for fun, and for the purpose of scaring them away from voting. Was this racist? Yes and no. It was racist in that only white people were doing it exclusively to black people, but the intention was actually political and the actions were criminal. Race was only a tangential factor because it was the one visible indicator that the victims were likely to not vote for Trump. They would have threatened gays and liberals and democrats, too, if they could have identified them at a glance. But they couldn't. So they settled for anyone with a dark skin tone.

What looks like racism is often not really racism at all. It's just plain old criminality that gets expressed along racial lines. That's not really a racial problem. It's a criminal problem.

Is this just another one of your empty claims? Or do you have an outside source confirming white support groups helping white people in business. If this is more than another empty claim, provide the evidence.

If you aren't willing to acknowledge this most obvious fact, then nothing I offer you will open those tightly closed eyes.

Though you have the right to speak your mind, you do not have the right to speak your mind and insist everybody who hears you agree with you.

I'm not insisting on that. All I ask is that if you disagree, then tell me why. So far you are failing at that. You keep trying to 'turn the table' on me by accusing me, and failing. Apparently because you have no actual logical observations to offer in the way of a contrary point of view. And the examples you tried to put forth failed miserably, too. So the way I see it, my observation and conclusions stand, as you have offered nothing to counter them. If that still doesn't change you mind, that's your problem. Not mine.

If I see nothing but BS coming outta your mouth, I’m gonna call you on it!

With what??? So far you haven't offered a thing in the way of countering my observed opinions. All you do is attack me personally.

With that said, I have no doubt you have seen some racism from white people as you said; but that does not mean what you saw is typical of all white people.

I didn't say anything about racism being typical of all white people. "Me-ism" becoming "Us-ism" is typical of all people. And the divide can be based on race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnic history, religion, politics, wealth/class, or any combination of these. Often it appears to be based on one while it's actually based on another. In the end it's always based on fear and selfishness and ego.

Supporting black groups does not mean you have to condone hatred against whites.

So far I have posted nothing about hating whites, or anyone else. This stuff only very rarely rises to the level of hate. That's partly why it's so insidious. "I don't hate anyone" proclaims the wealthy white employer that only hires those who have to work hard labor jobs for the lowest wages because they were born into a society that systematically cheated them out of all the necessary skills one needs to thrive in this economy ... because of their skin color, or ethnicity, or class status, or whatever.

"I don't hate anyone" ... "But I will happily take advantage of the fact that some people are being hated on!"

 

[Revoltingest]

Maybe you should try to ask it properly.

I think it's established that you believe
you have The Truth, & that other views
are wrong, ie, not "right".
I see morality as personal. It only becomes
confused with absolute truth when there's
reinforcing consensus. But affirmative
action doesn't even have that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think it's established that you believe
you have The Truth, & that other views
are wrong, ie, not "right".
I see morality as personal. It only becomes
confused with absolute truth when there's
reinforcing consensus. But affirmative
action doesn't even have that.

Personal attacks.

Why are you doing this? I have not said:

I think it's established that you are
a racist. That anything that think
threatens your lifestyle justifies you
opposing measure taken to alleviate the
racisms that is part of society.

Please note, I am not thinking that. I merely put a verry negative spin on what you have said here. Would you respect a question like that? I wouldn't.

 

[Revoltingest]

Personal attacks.

And your hair is funny looking.

Why are you doing this? I have not said:

I think it's established that you are
a racist. That anything that think
threatens your lifestyle justifies you
opposing measure taken to alleviate the
racisms that is part of society.

Please note, I am not thinking that. I merely put a verry negative spin on what you have said here. Would you respect a question like that? I wouldn't.

Your reasoning is highly disorganized.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And your hair is funny looking.

Your reasoning is highly disorganized.

So is yours.

Get rid of the personal attacks and false accusations if you want an answer.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Or do you have an outside source confirming white support groups helping white people in business. If this is more than another empty claim, provide the evidence.

We get to turn to more specific things, areas where again we see traditional oppression such as against women amd thise with physical handicaps and mental illness as well as the poor.

 

[Revoltingest]

So is yours.

Get rid of the personal attacks and false accusations if you want an answer.

I've nothing to add.

 

[Kfox]

The students are not the state college. They can form whatever groups they want based on whatever criteria they want. The only issue would be if they are demanding special or exceptional support from the college.

No; the students were preventing white people from entering the gate at the College, and the college allowed this making them complicit. Why are you defending these bigots?

White people have always done it.

If white people do it, it’s wrong; and if black people do it’s wrong. Can we at least agree on that?

So am I. Open your eyes. Like-minded people tend to associate with like-minded people. And when they do, they tend to act together to promote their own well-being, often at the expense of outsiders. Why are you offended by this? Humans have been this way from their most primitive beginnings. We are a selfish, clannish, self-centered species. If we aren't contending over race, it's over gender, or money, or religion, or politics, or ethnic history, or who knows what else.

White people are just now discovering this? Even after they been engaged in it for eons? And especially so here in the U.S.?

Where is this happening? Point to a place where white people are doing this and I will stand next to you and protest it. But you gotta point it out first; then we can protest

Breaking laws protecting us all from each other regardless of race or class or gender or religion or politics or whatever else is criminal behavior, no matter who does it. It's simply NOT a race issue. It's a crime issue. Because it's a citizen's rights issue.Your trying to change the subject.

No; YOU are trying to change the subject. Answer my question; if whites were doing this against blacks, would you condone it?

If you aren't willing to acknowledge this most obvious fact, then nothing I offer you will open those tightly closed eyes.

It’s only obvious to you. Provide evidence so it can become obvious to me.

I'm not insisting on that. All I ask is that if you disagree, then tell me why. So far you are failing at that. You keep trying to 'turn the table' on me by accusing me, and failing. Apparently because you have no actual logical observations to offer in the way of a contrary point of view. And the examples you tried to put forth failed miserably, too. So the way I see it, my observation and conclusions stand, as you have offered nothing to counter them. If that still doesn't change you mind, that's your problem. Not mine.

With what??? So far you haven't offered a thing in the way of countering my observed opinions. All you do is attack me personally.

I’ve already said I have no doubt your experiences are real; my only doubt is if they represent most white people.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I've nothing to add.

Would you answer questions asked by someone trying to alter your claims. Would you answer questions that had personal attacks in them?

 

[Revoltingest]

Would you answer questions asked by someone trying to alter your claims. Would you answer questions that had personal attacks in them?

You're still on this?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're still on this?

I thought that you were done.

 

[Revoltingest]

I thought that you were done.

You're correct.