I'm sorry, I can't understand what you're saying here, can you restate this?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
I think Islam is a totalitarian ideology with a religious facet.
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
I'm sorry, I can't understand what you're saying here, can you restate this?
Anti-Semitic is a word in English, being used in English, so I think we should use the English definition.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Not at all. I am making a point from a sociological and anthropological standing that Islam is a religion, not a political theory.
It strikes me that if you look at the world's Muslim majority countries you'll see Islam being treated much more broadly than as merely a religion. For example, in Muslim majority countries, most people believe in Sharia.
It's also important to note that you said "political theory", which I'd also say is a subset of any totalitarian ideology.
The majority of the world's Muslims would prefer to be ruled by Sharia. On the other hand, while I would agree that there are probably a handful of "Muslim secularists", I'd have to guess that as a percentage, they would be a tiny percentage.
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
I know that the TS is trying to create a negative image or definition of Islam being a totalitarian ideology but the reality is, it is. Islam isn't just a religion where we have rituals, special days, celebrations, prayers etc etc etc. It is far more than that. It gave the world the modern justice system, it gave the world the modern university and the modern hospital, throughout the Quran and the Sunnah (sayings and teachings of Prophet Muhammad PBUH) we are told to be the complete person, so one who practices his faith spiritually but also physically, one who takes part in politics, in society, in work, in environmentalism, in philosophy, in art, in science, Allah in the Quran tells us to go and see the world, to study the stars, the plants, the oceans, the forces of nature, to use ALL that to form our world view and way of life.
Ultimately, that's what Islam is, a complete way of life. Other religions will tell us that to be close to God we have to cut ourselves off from society, from reality, from life, love and work. Islam says indulge in all these things, they are all forms of getting closer to Allah if done right. Islam covers everything criminal, civil, social, scientific and political. If it is done right and to the best of our abilities, what is wrong with that?
Ultimately, that's what Islam is, a complete way of life. Other religions will tell us that to be close to God we have to cut ourselves off from society, from reality, from life, love and work. Islam says indulge in all these things, they are all forms of getting closer to Allah if done right. Islam covers everything criminal, civil, social, scientific and political. If it is done right and to the best of our abilities, what is wrong with that?
Sharia of Islam OR Sharia of opinion of some idiot Muslims like ISIS ?
in Sharia (God orders) Islam never allowed to some one to suicide , or kill innocents , so ISIS disagree with Sharia !!!
Unification
Well-Known Member
If a collection of people are in a mosque building praising "Allah-the merciful and ever-forgiving" harmlessly, it's their freedom to do so, it would be like a unique hobby.
Sharia, means "path" or "way." "Islam" means subjection to peace and purity.
The path or way to peace and purity.
It doesn't take much to realize that the literal interpretations of many Sharia Laws are man-made and are not a way or path to peace and purity, or forgiveness. They are a path and way to inequality, harm, and no forgiveness. These things I'd refer to as anti-Islam. (anti-peace and anti-purity).
Or a more radically extreme example is literally stoning someone to death. This is anti-Islam.
When stoning someone to death means criticizing someone constructively until they die(rid of) what they are being criticized for.
Allah, Islam, and Sharia can be summed up for me in this sentence:
The way and path to peace and purity is to be ever-forgiving of others. This is the entire law of "Allah."
Anything else to me is anti-Islam.
Unification
Well-Known Member
One may be the way or path to peace, purity... And one is the way to harm, violence, and destruction.
If the first has laws about killing the perceived guilty, it is not a path to peace. If "Allah" is ever forgiving and all-mericful, I'd imagine Allah's followers would be ever forgiving and all-merciful rather than merciless.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
And Christian majorities, such as in America, believe in enforcing Biblical law as state law. But many don't, and the number of Muslims who favor more liberal and Western social policy is steadily increasing. ISIS and the Taliban may be very strict when it comes to not allowing female soldiers, but women in the Kurdish military have played a strong role in fighting ISIS. While Saddam was still in power, homosexuals were shown some tolerance and leniency, but after Saddam was removed from power, and Iraq falling into a civil war of gang rule, homosexuals became targeted for death. Like it or not, you can't lump all Middle Eastern Muslims into one large group because they are not all the same. It's clear that large amounts support ISIS. It's also clear that many more do not.
Totalitarian ideology is just one of many political theories that exist. Because "political theories and ideologies" are the broader, larger, and more encompassing term, it cannot be a subset of totalitarian ideology.
Unification
Well-Known Member
Nothing is wrong with Islam unless it is not peaceful, pure, and merciful to all human beings.
As I said in the OP, totalitarian ideologies don't have to be bad.
As for what's wrong with that, the main problem I have is that Muslims declare Islam to be perfect, final and unalterable. Again, as we saw just a few years ago, Muslims across the world wouldn't stand for allowing apostasy, hence the Cairo declaration on human rights.
When humans have disagreements, the solutions usually boil down to:
- discussion
- violence
When one group declares huge aspects of life above discussion that only increases the chances of violence. By your own definition, you are declaring huge aspects of life... above debate. sigh.
I disagree with your definitions here. By definition, a "totalitarian ideology" is broader than a political system. Indeed, a totalitarian ideology includes, but is not limited to, a politcal system.
As for Christians, two wrongs don't make a right. I have my issues with Christians as well.
Well I like your interpretation, but sadly it's not nearly as widely held as it ought to be.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
A totalitarian ideology is a form of a political ideology. Political ideology is not a form of totalitarian ideology. Marxism, libertarianism, liberalism, anarchy, conservativism, these things are political ideologies. Saying "political ideology" defines a scope of what concepts are being discussed - things such as totalitarian ideology is an even more specific way to define the subject.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
That's a sad approach. I've met many Christians that I do not have any issues with, at all.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
How about NOW, in present day society.
While I might agree with your first two sentences, I'd have to add that a totalitarian ideology goes beyond just politics. So as definitions go, I suppose they're a bit circular.
I have also met many fine Christians, and I'm pretty sure you know what I meant. Shadow, there is a context for this discussion, are you really going to force us to restate the context over and over again?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Asking about now is probably a much more important question that you realize. Historically, those who are Muslim and hold power and prestige are nothing like those ******** that are running around today. Just shortly before the 9/11 attacks South Park had Muhammad on an episode, and no one said anything or gave a crap about it, and there were no such restrictions against making and showing images of the prophet until recently. While Europe was having a Dark Age and killing each other and deeply ensnared by superstition, the Middle East experienced a Medieval boom that furthered technology, medical understanding, mathematics, science, education, and many small things we take for granted today. Really, the problems of today start with asking why did the extremist views of Islam gain popularity and political power over the course of the 20th century? There wasn't even the strong hatred of Western culture and America specifically until later in the 20th century, and up until that point the wars were against other Muslims.
Of course this cannot be proven, but it may be the increase in violence, and the desires to purge Western culture expressed by some, may have something to do with outsiders having more or less taken over about a century ago, when the Ottoman Empire collapsed and outsiders drew up the new borders. It is possible that when the Islamic Revolution happened, some of the older members where speaking of the "good ole' days" of the Caliphate when they were kids. I've even read that misreadings and misinterpretations of Heidegger and Nietzsche helped to fuel the anti-West flames (and this warped view of Nietzsche was certainly used to fuel Nazi propaganda). It may partly a very violent form of culture shock, but shock over seeing your own culture replaced by the ways of outsiders. Asking what happened to make the climate of today very different than what it used to be is indeed a very good question to ask.