i think jesus was confused...or maybe luke and john were

[sincerly]

My response was sarcasam, not an effort to refute or prove what I quoted.
I too am lucky enough to be a former believer. I too will do everything I can to point out the flaws and illogical reasoning that supports this bible (though I can't do more than the bible and its followed does/do already).
The FACT is, no matter what people like to believe, that the bible is a book of stories written by men. One can believe it's an accurate representation of god/jesus written by god, but there's no proof of that.
Another FACT is that there are other books written about jesus that didn't make the "bible cut" due to the editing of flawed, imperfect men.
We can rationalize these facts all we want into a perfect little bubble that allows us to believe what we want. But that doesn't change the facts, or lack thereof.

Hi Conner, Thanks for the information.
"I too am lucky enough to be a former believer" is your choice. I consider myself, lucky to have the Holy Spirit convict me to be one of God's Children.

Yes, there are narratives of peoples lives(and events) in the Bible which are examples of ways to please or displease the Creator GOD of all one sees.
The past civilizations which the Bible speaks of and archeologist have found attest to the "" flaws and illogical reasoning"" which you believe is in the Bible.
Just because a person writes a flawed self believed, but erroneous book or half-truth "book" doesn't make another one based upon Truth to be wrong. Those "books which were "cut" from the "Canon" were done so not at/during one year, but over the years.
You see, I believe that the Holy Spirit who Inspired the Writer's to write the "Books" also, was totally instrumental in preserving those books which were for the true edification of Mankind to be in harmony with the True Creator GOD.

 

[sincerly]

if one account portrays jesus as brave and another one doesn't, then it very probable that one or both accounts are not accurate.
:sorry1:

The truth of the matter is neither account is inaccurate; That assumption/conclusion was your own supplied answer(s) to your own asked "IFS" and "Whys".

 

[waitasec]

The truth of the matter is neither account is inaccurate; That assumption/conclusion was your own supplied answer(s) to your own asked "IFS" and "Whys".

of course they are inaccurate....that's why there are irreconcilable differences

i asked a question you cannot answer...or your faith will not allow you to answer

why did the disciples ask to draw their swords?

 

[sincerly]

sure it is..one context has jesus tell the disciples to stay awake and is approached by judas another one has jesus walk up to judas...
one account shows jesus was hiding out, the other has jesus in control
a contradiction
:sorry1:

One account has the Disciples in the Garden awaiting for the betrayer while Jesus is praying and the three with him are asked to be vigilent in praying that they resist temptation. There is NO HIDING OUT---That is supplied from your own imagination. The other shows Jesus in reality--in command of the situation--dispite impulsive human beings. No Contradiction of Scripture----just your own false insertive conclusions.

 

[waitasec]

Yes, there are narratives of peoples lives(and events) in the Bible which are examples of ways to please or displease the Creator GOD of all one sees.

bzzzt wrong.

how in the world can someone assume to know what pleases an idea of god?

oh yea through the bible...which happens to be the foundation of many many different christian interpretations...oh but wait, your interpretation happens to be the correct one, right?

 

[sincerly]

then answer the question...
btw, a question isn't a claim.
:sorry1:



interesting that you left out the part where the disciples asked if they should draw their swords...
actually, interesting is a wrong word, i expected you to..

See a post previously written above.

 

[sincerly]

then answer the question...
btw, a question isn't a claim.
:sorry1:

Your 'question" was concerning the "Claim" and with over 200 post it has be thoroughly answered many times.

interesting that you left out the part where the disciples asked if they should draw their swords...
actually, interesting is a wrong word, i expected you to..

 

[sincerly]

of course they are inaccurate....that's why there are irreconcilable differences

i asked a question you cannot answer...or your faith will not allow you to answer

why did the disciples ask to draw their swords?

As has been stated, you "claimed" there were "irreconcilable differences" and there are none. Therefore, you believe your own concoctions. No-one can cause you to believe that which you do not want to believe.

I have answered. And my faith in the validity of the Scriptures demands Truth which your false "claims"/"thinking" doesn't supply.

Re-read post#197.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Yes, there are narratives of peoples lives(and events) in the Bible which are examples of ways to please or displease the Creator GOD of all one sees.

bzzzt wrong.

how in the world can someone assume to know what pleases an idea of god?

oh yea through the bible...which happens to be the foundation of many many different christian interpretations...oh but wait, your interpretation happens to be the correct one, right?

1Cor.10:6, 11, "Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. ..."Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

NO! RIGHT. For you it may be """an idea of god?""", but for me, That GOD is the Creator GOD of everything which is seen and not seen.

There is only one Creator GOD and those who Worship HIM follow in the instructions given by HIM.

 

[waitasec]

One account has the Disciples in the Garden awaiting for the betrayer while Jesus is praying and the three with him are asked to be vigilent in praying that they resist temptation.

was jesus that afraid that he needed company?
why was it so important to not fall asleep...you say to pray...pray to have the strength to not deny jesus, well 1st off what's the point had jesus already foreseen that and 2nd if they were asleep they wouldn't have the chance to deny jesus.

There is NO HIDING OUT---

what does keep watch mean to you then?

That is supplied from your own imagination. The other shows Jesus in reality--in command of the situation--dispite impulsive human beings. No Contradiction of Scripture----just your own false insertive conclusions.

i'm not talking about jesus being in command over his disciples...
i'm asking with regards to the gospel accounts if they were not on the look out, why ask if they should draw their swords?
what do you suppose they were thinking when they saw judas betraying their leader?

so, why did they ask to draw their swords?

 

[waitasec]

Your 'question" was concerning the "Claim"

what is my claim?

and with over 200 post it has be thoroughly answered many times.

no it hasn't

why did the disciple ask to draw their swords if they were not on the look out

 

[waitasec]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Yes, there are narratives of peoples lives(and events) in the Bible which are examples of ways to please or displease the Creator GOD of all one sees.



1Cor.10:6, 11, "Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. ..."Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

NO! RIGHT. For you it may be """an idea of god?""", but for me, That GOD is the Creator GOD of everything which is seen and not seen.

There is only one Creator GOD and those who Worship HIM follow in the instructions given by HIM.

says who?

 

[waitasec]

As has been stated, you "claimed" there were "irreconcilable differences" and there are none.

yes there are, and you have failed to offer an alternative because your alternatives don't fit...

Therefore, you believe your own concoctions. No-one can cause you to believe that which you do not want to believe.

i have no other choice when my argument still stands...
why did the disciple ask to draw their swords?

I have answered. And my faith in the validity of the Scriptures demands Truth which your false "claims"/"thinking" doesn't supply.

no you haven't you've continually ignored the question
why did the disciples ask to draw their swords?
it's just a simple question, i don't understand why it's so difficult to answer

why did the disciples ask to draw their swords?

 

[sincerly]

was jesus that afraid that he needed company?
why was it so important to not fall asleep...you say to pray...pray to have the strength to not deny jesus, well 1st off what's the point had jesus already foreseen that and 2nd if they were asleep they wouldn't have the chance to deny jesus.

Matt.26:38, "Then saith he unto them, My soul(Life/Being) is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me."

NOT Afraid, that is your erroneous supplied word. "Over come with sorrow". The very things which was talked about in John's "ON THE WAY TO THE GARDEN". Leaving the Disciples in the world to persecution, etc. The sins of the world now on HIM and seperating HIM from the Father. Etc.
The watch was in the vigil of waiting for the betrayer and the arrest to happen and then the judgment and Crucifixion.(For Jesus) Also, the Disciples and especially Peter was to watch in regards to the temptations of of his impulsive nature and then in his denials. He failed both. There was no idea of "fleeing", "resisting arrest", etc. by Jesus. "For this hour came I into the world".
The disciples were not asleep when the "temptation(s)" occurred for which they were told to pray concerning.
The Disciples had been told many times that Jesus was to be betrayed, suffer persecution and be crucified. Never were they told to resist in any way. The very question of "drawing the sword" was a "temptation" to interfer with the very act Jesus came to "fulfill".

what does keep watch mean to you then?

i'm not talking about jesus being in command over his disciples...
i'm asking with regards to the gospel accounts if they were not on the look out, why ask if they should draw their swords?
what do you suppose they were thinking when they saw judas betraying their leader?

so, why did they ask to draw their swords?

See above. and my many posts.

 

[sincerly]

says who?

the creator god.

 

[waitasec]

the creator god.

circular logic goes nowhere.

 

[waitasec]

Matt.26:38, "Then saith he unto them, My soul(Life/Being) is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me."

which contradicts john 17...

NOT Afraid, that is your erroneous supplied word.

yes, in john's gospel.

"Over come with sorrow". The very things which was talked about in John's "ON THE WAY TO THE GARDEN".

bzzt wrong....
i went over this before...

mark 14:34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.”
35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba,[f] Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

is not consistent with:

john 17:“I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.

it don't fit...no matter how much you try :sorry1:

The disciples were not asleep when the "temptation(s)" occurred for which they were told to pray concerning.

which was?

The Disciples had been told many times that Jesus was to be betrayed, suffer persecution and be crucified. Never were they told to resist in any way.

then why did they ask to draw their swords?

The very question of "drawing the sword" was a "temptation" to interfer with the very act Jesus came to "fulfill".

had they been asleep, they wouldn't have asked to draw their swords...

 

[SageTree]

As I understand it, Mark was the first Gospel written and Matthew and Luke borrowed heavily from it.
John came later, and was it's own thing, different stories etc...

Like someone said, John isn't synoptic.

Lets not forget that each Gospel has it's own rendering of Jesus and his life's meaning, and at one time stood on their own, without the others, more or less, rather, they weren't bound in one larger volume.

Taking them all as one, sort of creates a fifth Gospel, if you will, and there is nothing wrong with that imo,

But just keep it in mind and try to read each one for what it is.

IE:
Mark's Jesus seems to be a little confused about what he's going through, especially in the crucifixion story, whereas Luke's Jesus seems to know VERY well what is going on and why he's there.

Consider it.

:namaste
SageTree

 

[waitasec]

mark 14:32 They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.” 33 He took Peter, James and John along with him, and he began to be deeply distressed and troubled. 34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.”

notice...there is not one word about praying....-----^


35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba,[f] Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

37 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Couldn’t you keep watch for one hour? 38 Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

the temptation was falling asleep which would hinder their ability to "keep watch"

39 Once more he went away and prayed the same thing. 40 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. They did not know what to say to him.

41 Returning the third time, he said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Enough! The hour has come. Look, the Son of Man is delivered into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer and say, wassupp?

 

[waitasec]

matthew 26:36 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37 He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”

notice not one word about praying....

39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Couldn’t you men keep watch with me for one hour?”

notice he didn't say couldn't you pray for one hour

he asked Peter. 41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

the temptation of falling asleep
notice he didn't say 'pray so that you will not fall into temptation...'
watch for what?

42 He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”

43 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

45 Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour has come, and the Son of Man is delivered into the hands of sinners. 46 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer and see wassup!”