I was just thinking

[Unveiled Artist]

I got a question for ya.

If she had gone to the wedding but while there said shes her to support you, not the homosexual marriage, how would you take that?

I kinda understood she wouldn't support the marriage itself given her religion. I guess supporting that I am getting married is the same as supporting the marriage itself?

Like supporting a murderer kill someone else is like supporting murder herself?

 

[Jollybear]

I kinda understood she wouldn't support the marriage itself given her religion. I guess supporting that I am getting married is the same as supporting the marriage itself?

Like supporting a murderer kill someone else is like supporting murder herself?

Hypothetically someone could go to a homosexual wedding, eat, say hello, hug you, give you a gift and then say, im here for you, but i disagree with both of you getting married, i think its evil. Lol. It would look and feel weird. But its possible she could do that.

But, for the two people being married, would that be welcomed very much? Mayby, mayby not. Either way it feel weird though.

 

[DustyFeet]

Like supporting a murderer kill someone else is like supporting murder herself?

you make an intereting point. i think. if i understand. would you please respond to this line of reasoning?

is killing someone the same as marriage?

what is sameness?

for something to be "the same" aka "equal" they should be "the same" or "equal" in: form, function, and scope.

from a spiritual perspective, i can see how someone would claim the 2 sins are similar in form and function.

what about scope?

 

[DustyFeet]

Hypothetically someone could go to a homosexual wedding, eat, say hello, hug you, give you a gift and then say, im here for you, but i disagree with both of you getting married, i think its evil. Lol.

IMHO, you started out good ( spiritually constructive ) and then converted to bad ( spiritually destructive ).

 

[DustyFeet]

"homosexuality" should not be "pejorative"

sexual expression is a combination of spirit and ***biology***

repressing the healthy natural biological sexual expression between two adults in the privacy of their homes may be leading to some very destructive behavior.

behold the scandals in the Catholic Church!

 

[Jollybear]

IMHO, you started out good ( spiritually constructive ) and then converted to bad ( spiritually destructive ).

Mayby when the priest or justice of peace says the line "if there is anyone here who thinks these two should not be married, say now or forever hold your peace"

Then she can stand up and say "i think they shouldnt.

He says "why?"

"Because there homosexual"

Lol

Youl probably hear a pin drop in the room.

If i was in the audiance, i would not be able to do the pin drop, id have to burst out laughin. Id say to myself "boy, it was worth commin to this wedding JUST TO HEAR THAT.

 

[DustyFeet]

Then she can stand up and say "i think they shouldnt.

what happens next? after "she" says "they shouldn't"? is that spiritually constructive or spiritually destructive? if she is "LOL", it sounds like the statement is self serving?

i'm not trying to pick on you. I really appreciate that you're sharing these ideas and that people can try to make up their own mind.

edit: please replace "and that" with "so that", sorry

 

[DustyFeet]

Then she can stand up and say "i think they shouldnt.

brainstorm: is this an example of righteousness vs zealotry?

righteousness is more mercy ( rachamim ) and zealotry is strict justice even if it hurts people ( extreme gevurah )

for an example of zealotry, research Pinchas and the Ba'al Pe'or affairs.

 

[Jollybear]

what happens next? after "she" says "they shouldn't"? is that spiritually constructive or spiritually destructive? if she is "LOL", it sounds like the statement is self serving?

i'm not trying to pick on you. I really appreciate that you're sharing these ideas and that people can try to make up their own mind.

edit: please replace "and that" with "so that", sorry

What happens next all depends on the individuals involved and what there like.

It could turn into a huge argument. Or could turn into her getting booted out. Or could turn out to be like "ok, she said her peace, carry on".

Either way, they still get married.

The LOL was not her. That part was ME. You misunderstood that part.

The lol is me laughing at her at the wedding saying its evil for them to marry.

Thats me laughing due to the bluntness of it all.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hypothetically someone could go to a homosexual wedding, eat, say hello, hug you, give you a gift and then say, im here for you, but i disagree with both of you getting married, i think its evil. Lol. It would look and feel weird. But its possible she could do that.

But, for the two people being married, would that be welcomed very much? Mayby, mayby not. Either way it feel weird though.

I see what you're saying. Yes. I think it would be an insult to the married couple. It would be weird. I did say she can come to the reception but I did take it hard. I was a practicing catholic then and if I was in her place, Id probably say that Im not comfortable with coming to the wedding; and, I can give you a gift or card (or whatever).

Is that better or is it like marriage?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

you make an intereting point. i think. if i understand. would you please respond to this line of reasoning?

is killing someone the same as marriage?

what is sameness?

for something to be "the same" aka "equal" they should be "the same" or "equal" in: form, function, and scope.

from a spiritual perspective, i can see how someone would claim the 2 sins are similar in form and function.

what about scope?

Yeah. In general as sins, they are equal. I mean, I wouldnt support a murderer in his murder. However, I know the nature of the two sins are different (one life threatening and illegal and the other just sex immoral [her view]). So how does the morality (rather than sinfulness) of taking a life the same as sex?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"homosexuality" should not be "pejorative"

sexual expression is a combination of spirit and ***biology***

repressing the healthy natural biological sexual expression between two adults in the privacy of their homes may be leading to some very destructive behavior.

behold the scandals in the Catholic Church!

In humans, yes, sexual oppression can have bad results. Even on RF a few people see homosexuals have more of a tendency to have same-sex sex as someone with "straight sex-addictions". I was appalled.

 

[Jollybear]

I see what you're saying. Yes. I think it would be an insult to the married couple. It would be weird. I did say she can come to the reception but I did take it hard. I was a practicing catholic then and if I was in her place, Id probably say that Im not comfortable with coming to the wedding; and, I can give you a gift or card (or whatever).

Is that better or is it like marriage?

I think its more like what the apostle paul was talking about. The issues of a strong or weak concience and freedom.

1 corinthians 8

"1Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3But whoever loves God is known by God. a

4So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

7But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall."

In the case of going to the wedding, the principles are the same. Paul is saying you have the freedom to do so. It dont mean your beliefs and motives are evil.

Plus, they know your belief because you told them too.

I use to not eat pizza at Halloween because halloween was the devils day, so pizza was defiled. Lol

I dont do that now. Its foolish. I just eat the pizza.

 

[IsaiahX]

@IsaiahX I don't know why but I can handle disagreements and contradictions on RF but those same views in person with her and a co-worker, I'm just shocked. I honestly didn't know people think this way...at least insofar to express it to others. My coworker said I would go to hell since I'm not a believer. Then she says quickly, "but you know my belief" as if that excused the insult.

On the internet the conversation can be so impersonal and disconnected. A friend insulting you to your face is so much more suprising, more personal.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I think its more like what the apostle paul was talking about. The issues of a strong or weak concience and freedom.

1 corinthians 8

"1Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3But whoever loves God is known by God. a

4So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

7But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall."

In the case of going to the wedding, the principles are the same. Paul is saying you have the freedom to do so. It dont mean your beliefs and motives are evil.

Plus, they know your belief because you told them too.

I use to not eat pizza at Halloween because halloween was the devils day, so pizza was defiled. Lol

I dont do that now. Its foolish. I just eat the pizza.

(I read it)

Hmm. Isnt that like saying if two gay christians were to marry, their marriage would be a stumbling block to god?

There are even christians who deny a person from being a real christian given they are LGBTQ rather than people who can engage in the same activities as straights. Kinda like LGBTQ has the copyrights to same-sex activities

 

[dianaiad]

Was thinking about my former Catholic friend. We talked about relationships. Then, when I asked her if she would come to my wedding (if I had one). She said that was akin to murder.

I just thought this a contradiction.

Catholics have prison ministries. They help people be with Christ and so forth. They don't promote the crime but they are beyond that and doing gods work.

If she came to my wedding, it would be (to her) just going to a prison. But instead of helping and supporting the prisoners in christ, she turns me down who have not committed murder.

Christians, does that make sense?

If you are against homosexual marriage and have prison ministry, isn't that contradicting the nature of support and bringing people to Christ?

First, I would go to the wedding. I believe that gay marriage is only marriage in the eyes of the law, not of God, but it IS marriage in the eyes of the law, and I figure that if the gay couple doesn't share my beliefs, I have no beef with it.

...............as long, that is, as long as it is entirely my choice whether I go or not, and the level of support I show is mine alone to choose, and as long as their choice to marry doesn't mess with MY beliefs regarding it.

So your friend doesn't want to personally support an occasion s/he honestly believes to be sinful. Would you give her grief if she refused to dance sky clad on a midsummer's night in a faux druidic homage to Hecate? (shrug) So she sees both things as sinful....what makes YOUR 'sin' special?

I believe that her comparison to attending a gay wedding to going to prison is wrong, though. The comparison would be more to attending and supporting the crime that got you put IN to prison, seems to me....

But this is a religious difference, and having different religious beliefs is not a crime. At least, it's not unless the politically correct get into it, and one side or the other wants to impose their values on the other, by force.

You know.....like forcing someone to provide services for a celebration that is very much against his beliefs?

Or, yeah.....like prohibiting a celebration of something because it violates his beliefs, even though it doesn't violate the beliefs of the guys doing the celebrating.

Now me, I fought against legalization of gay marriage. Not because I thought that it was all that horrific, or sinful. I fought against it because of the consequences to my own freedom of religion. I was right, too.....it was obvious then, as it is obvious now (including in your own mild discussion of the issue) that gays don't JUST want the freedom to marry in the eyes of the law.

Shoot, if that's all you guys wanted, I'd have no problems at all.

But, at least in California, it was really obvious; gays didn't just want their marriages legal, they wanted forced approval. That is, they want....and the lawsuits, whatever, are proving this to be true....to force all those for whom homosexual marriage is a sin and against their religious beliefs to approve and participate in them anyway. It's not just a 'let us celebrate and live our lives according to our own beliefs," it's "we're going to force you to approve of the whole thing and you MUST, by golly, be happy and put our wants first and completely ignore your own beliefs, because ours are more politically correct and 'nice' and important than yours. In fact, we're going to make you admit that you are all bigoted cretins and have no right to your own opinions if ours differs."


So...sorry for the length of this....

I would go to the wedding.
I would celebrate it with you.
Shoot, I'd bake your cake and take a camera. I'd be happy for you and wish you the best of lives according to your own beliefs.


But the second you tell me that I have no choice in the matter, you can whistle the wedding march, because you won't see me there.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

... when I asked her if she would come to my wedding (if I had one). She said that was akin to murder.

What gets me is how many of these types of people will adamantly state that they are not being judgmental, only speaking out of "love" in an attempt to "save." But this is passive-aggressiveness at its worst. It would have been a thousand times better to simply say "I don't feel I am able based on my religious convictions." and not expound unless asked. And even then, there are ways to be gentler, or more kind, even if you are hell-bound on being a complete and utter butthead about the situation. And it would still be a thousand times better than even that to simply answer "No, but thank you for asking."

I could never even imagine considering someone a "friend" who would suggest that attending my wedding would be like committing murder. It would be at that point that I'd have to just rip their smug, religious position apart - no holds barred. Maybe start with something like "That's okay, it's not your fault you were indoctrinated into a group of emotionally-depraved morons, you sloppy, insignificant God-turd." Maybe something worse, if I could think of it. I'm not sure. I'll think on it some more.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I can see what you are saying. Some of the things (for another thread) are more or less false outside of your religious views; and, it does cloud what your are saying in my opinion. These two things that caught me.

So your friend doesn't want to personally support an occasion s/he honestly believes to be sinful. Would you give her grief if she refused to dance sky clad on a midsummer's night in a faux druidic homage to Hecate? (shrug) So she sees both things as sinful....what makes YOUR 'sin' special?

Its not forcing her. Gays dont force people to accept them and all of that. Its a misconception as if christian straights are forcing me to be christian. No christian has done that and Im thankful I did not have that experience as many do.

But, I did tell her it is an insult. Whether she goes or not is her choice. Her opinions and choices doesnt exclude her insults. My co-worker said to me I will go t hell. While I didnt challenge her, it is still an insult. Doesnt matter if its a religion or so have you.

But with the Paganism thing, with my OP, that doesnt compare. Taking a life and having sex (or going Skyclad) are two different actions. The nature of the sin between murder and sex is what I am questioning not whether or not she will support it.

The insult is she compared my love for my spouse (fiction) to murder, not whether or not she wants to come to the wedding. I known her for over ten years; so, the analogy of the wedding is not near the point as to why sex and murder and skyclad all go together. Sex, nakedness, and murder? That puzzles the mess out of me.

I believe that her comparison to attending a gay wedding to going to prison is wrong, though. The comparison would be more to attending and supporting the crime that got you put IN to prison, seems to me....

Yes. That is my point. It is an insult. It doesnt have to do with her supporting my marriage. It isnt an insult that she doesnt come. It is an insult to compare my marriage with murder.

Hmm. Would you consider going to (my) wedding supporting the wedding?

But the second you tell me that I have no choice in the matter, you can whistle the wedding march, because you won't see me there.

I dont know if you feel gay people are forcing their rights on you. Thats what it sounds like. Christians act similar and even killed others because they felt they were victims and pagans the accusers. Then it flip flopped.

But, yeah. I know gay activists (not gay people as a whole) are flamboyant (no pun intended) in their way of gaining rights they, as humans, are entitled. I disagree with the how-myself. What puzzles me is why do many of you think because of how they act influences your beliefs?

Kinda like when or if whites said that blacks back then were imposing on them just because they have the Civil Rights Movement.

I know this is off topic; but, these views does influence how you see others in relation to your religion. Which is fine in one way, but in my friends case, she believes the sinner is their sin, so...

shrugs.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But this is passive-aggressiveness at its worst. It would have been a thousand times better to simply say "I don't feel I am able based on my religious convictions." and not expound unless asked.

EXACTLY.

Sorry. Reading your post now.

If she said that, Id say I understand. Very different than saying I am committing a murder.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What gets me is how many of these types of people will adamantly state that they are not being judgmental, only speaking out of "love" in an attempt to "save." But this is passive-aggressiveness at its worst. It would have been a thousand times better to simply say "I don't feel I am able based on my religious convictions." and not expound unless asked. And even then, there are ways to be gentler, or more kind, even if you are hell-bound on being a complete and utter butthead about the situation. And it would still be a thousand times better than even that to simply answer "No, but thank you for asking."

I could never even imagine considering someone a "friend" who would suggest that attending my wedding would be like committing murder. It would be at that point that I'd have to just rip their smug, religious position apart - no holds barred. Maybe start with something like "That's okay, it's not your fault you were indoctrinated into a group of emotionally-depraved morons, you sloppy, insignificant God-turd." Maybe something worse, if I could think of it. I'm not sure. I'll think on it some more.

Yeah. After years, both my friend and mother said she was never my friend. This was back in highschool. It didnt dawn on me 100% until I met my other friend who we dated and still talk going on 13 years. We still stayed friends. We supported each other with our medical issues. Im not a child person but I helped her out with her children and so forth. She came to my college graduation. Even lent me money on her own volition even though she was broke. Of course emotional and spiritual things in between. I even support her in her faith as a christian. Made me cry.

Thats when I really knew what love meant. That, and who my friends were even though I didnt have many.

Life lesson.