I was just thinking

[Kenny]

Hmm. Thank you for that perspective. As long as I've known her I can see that. What would you do if you said the same as she without intent to hurt me?

Could you rephrase the question?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Could you rephrase the question?

Oh. If you were her, how would you phrase your disagreement gay-marriage? (Without the intent to hurt me)

 

[Kenny]

Oh. If you were her, how would you phrase your disagreement gay-marriage? (Without the intent to hurt me)

Ohhh...

Wow, that's a good question.

When two lesbians came to our church one said, "This is my husband", and gave her name. I replied, "So good to have you at our church today" and we continued with the introductions like "Where are you from; how did you hear about our church; etc." They loved the church, came back again,

In the end, both gave their lives to Jesus and one of them had a life change even as my life was changed when I gave my life to Jesus. Unfortunately, the other ended up in jail -- though I don't know what for.

(sentence added) People are people and deserve the love of God regardless of where they are at.

I believe it is already understood where we stand as far as our faith goes so I really wouldn't even bring it up unless they had a question and wanted to discuss it. But I also understand that no one is perfect, even me. So I go with the Jesus example of "He who is without sin, cast the first stone" So I don't throw stones.

I've never been asked to go to a wedding. Perhaps because people know my position as a pastor and would think it would be wrong to ask me to go? I don't know. Wouldn't mind at all eating with whosever and anybody. I've even had a cup of coffee with a "murderer for hire". (At lest that is what he told me) He, incidentally, gave his life to Jesus, took a trip to a big pond and threw his weapons into it.

I wouldn't serve pork to a Jewish person either. I just don't like putting people into situations that would make them feel uncomfortable.

 

[SomeRandom]

Some do. I know one Catholic caterer who will not 'do' a wedding if one of the parties is divorced. Seems to be the same thing to me.

I also know a kosher caterer who will only do Kosher Jewish weddings.

Seems the same thing to me, and I don't see a problem there.
.

Religions seemingly hold everyone else up to their standards so they should do so themselves. If not they are hypocrites. So good on those people.

Depends on who is defining 'sin.'

After all, the gay couple getting married doesn't think they are sinning.

It's not about what THEY think. It's about what the caterer and photographer think. The Kosher caterer has no problem doing a wedding if one of the parties is divorced. The Catholic caterer wouldn't have a problem doing a wedding (at least, the one I know about ) for a couple that has been 'living in sin' for awhile. Indeed, he loves those....he thinks he's helping a couple get OUT of sin.

What if the couple living in sin doesn't think they are sinning? If the Catholics want to claim that they are denying gay marriage services because of their religion and still provide services for people sinning according to their own religion, (which they themselves are all too happy to name and shame to the public all the time) then they are hypocrites. If they don't, then I have no beef with them.
Kosher caterers don't seem to be in the headlines as those refusing services to the public though. So they are clearly either advertising themselves correctly or are much more professional.

Since when do you get to define what someone else has to think of as 'sin?'

It's not about what YOU think is sinful. It's about what the caterer/photographer/whatever thinks is.

It's called 'freedom of religion.'
.

They're the ones claiming what exactly a sin is. I'm only going by what people of religion (in this case clearly specific sects of Christians since no one else of religious persuasion seem to be refusing to do their jobs) are saying publicly and what exactly they are referring to as a sin. It's a little hard not to know the "list of sins" by now.
Besides I'm not the one throwing a tantrum when told to share my toys with members of the public. If wedding photographers wish to provide a public service and not clearly advertise they refuse sinners (or oddly enough ONLY gay couples, other sins they don't seem to worry about.) then I will call a spade a spade. Also it's quite unprofessional if you ask me but they can refuse whoever they please. However if they want to claim religion, then one should be consistent. List the number of sinning couples one refuses on religious grounds. You can't have it both ways. Either you refuse to "participate in sin by celebrating it" or you expose yourself as a hypocrite by singling out gay couples. Unless they are more concerned about their bottom line than setting an example?

Doesn't matter whether my exercising my religion annoys you. It's my religion. It's my right.

..................I can't make you do things my way (in the case of gay weddings, not get married). What makes you think you have the right to make me do things your way (approve of and participate in the wedding?)

Since when did I say you shouldn't practice your religion? I said people of religion should hold themselves to the very standards they themselves preach. If anything, I'm saying people should follow their religion more.

Give it a rest. You all know by now that I would go to the wedding. I would bake the cake. I would photograph it. I would help celebrate it; I have no problems with it.

But I DO have a problem with being made to do so at the point of a lawsuit.

I don't care which weddings you attend or refuse. Which services you provide or approve. That's none of my business. But to be perfectly frank, Americans seem so litigious that it's the only country in the world where visitors have to literally buy protection from being sued if they travel there.
So don't blame me for it being a lawsuit.

 

[Vouthon]

Was thinking about my former Catholic friend. We talked about relationships. Then, when I asked her if she would come to my wedding (if I had one). She said that was akin to murder.

I just thought this a contradiction.

Catholics have prison ministries. They help people be with Christ and so forth. They don't promote the crime but they are beyond that and doing gods work.

If she came to my wedding, it would be (to her) just going to a prison. But instead of helping and supporting the prisoners in christ, she turns me down who have not committed murder.

Christians, does that make sense?

If you are against homosexual marriage and have prison ministry, isn't that contradicting the nature of support and bringing people to Christ?

If there's cake, plenty of booze and a free lunch I'd happily come to your wedding

I've attended a gay wedding, when my cousin got married. Great day, lovely couple.

My private religious beliefs about what I personally would choose to do and not to do in the bedroom, should have no bearing on my duty to show equal love and respect for the choices that other people make in accordance with their conscience and beliefs.

For your friend to compare a decision by two people to bind themselves legally together in a loving partnership and share a common life, irrespective of her private views on the morality of gay sex (which she's perfectly entitled to have), to "murder" - is frankly shocking and beneath her IMHO.

All she should be caring about is that your spouse treats you well.....and that the cake tastes good, of course.

If she honestly feels that her conscience compels her to avoid taking part in a homosexual wedding, she still had no need to offensively and exaggeratedly compare it with a heinous act of malice like the taking of a human life. That's just nonsense by any standards, religious or other, quite apart from being hurtful to you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Religions seemingly hold everyone else up to their standards so they should do so themselves. If not they are hypocrites. So good on those people.


What if the couple living in sin doesn't think they are sinning? If the Catholics want to claim that they are denying gay marriage services because of their religion and still provide services for people sinning according to their own religion, (which they themselves are all too happy to name and shame to the public all the time) then they are hypocrites. If they don't, then I have no beef with them.
Kosher caterers don't seem to be in the headlines as those refusing services to the public though. So they are clearly either advertising themselves correctly or are much more professional.


They're the ones claiming what exactly a sin is. I'm only going by what people of religion (in this case clearly specific sects of Christians since no one else of religious persuasion seem to be refusing to do their jobs) are saying publicly and what exactly they are referring to as a sin. It's a little hard not to know the "list of sins" by now.
Besides I'm not the one throwing a tantrum when told to share my toys with members of the public. If wedding photographers wish to provide a public service and not clearly advertise they refuse sinners (or oddly enough ONLY gay couples, other sins they don't seem to worry about.) then I will call a spade a spade. Also it's quite unprofessional if you ask me but they can refuse whoever they please. However if they want to claim religion, then one should be consistent. List the number of sinning couples one refuses on religious grounds. You can't have it both ways. Either you refuse to "participate in sin by celebrating it" or you expose yourself as a hypocrite by singling out gay couples. Unless they are more concerned about their bottom line than setting an example?


Since when did I say you shouldn't practice your religion? I said people of religion should hold themselves to the very standards they themselves preach. If anything, I'm saying people should follow their religion more.


I don't care which weddings you attend or refuse. Which services you provide or approve. That's none of my business. But to be perfectly frank, Americans seem so litigious that it's the only country in the world where visitors have to literally buy protection from being sued if they travel there.
So don't blame me for it being a lawsuit.

I will be blunt. I hope christians read this. Every bit.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But, guys. My friend aside. Christians. How is murder akin to sex? How does ones genitals decide who is compatible in marriage?

I understand both are sins. The nature of the two sins are highly different. Arnt they?

 

[Glaurung]

How do you support someone's wedding by going to it?

Frankly, that should be obvious. The very act of attendance constitutes (at the very least) tacit support.

If someone had a job promotion party and I disagrees with the company they work for both morally and personally, that has nothing to do with supporting my friend. Unless I can't keep a barrier on who I support just by my presence, I can tell my friend...hey, I will be uncomfortable with X but I will still support you, as a person.

It can be tough when principle and sentiment clash. But when they do the answer is always principle. This is why so many of the early Christians accepted martyrdom rather than burn even so much as a single grain of incense to Caesar's statute. It doesn't matter what the personal cost may be. It doesn't matter how many friends it may cost you. The principles of morality come first. And the Church's teaching is clear. All sexual acts outside the sacramental union of one man and one woman are always and everywhere intrinsically evil.

The only way I can my friend not doing this is she would have to compare my marriage (gay is Not a lifestyle. Marriage is) to murder. I wouldn't want to attend an event of someone elses murder.

Murder is the unjust taking of human life. And I don't think that many gay weddings involve the aforementioned. So we agree, such rhetoric is nonsensical.

Nevertheless gay marriage is a solemnization of sexual sin. Which is anathema to Catholic principle. Christ calls us to repentance and to the rejection of sin, not to the celebration of it.

My question is, I don't understand how the two actions corelate. Sex vs murder. They are both sins but beyond that, I don't know.

Again though, this is not what I'm saying. I am saying that your friend is right in her refusal to attend, but not in her conflation of gay marriage with murder. Although it is in the name of enabling sexual sin that million of infants have been murdered in the womb.

My friend was an example but wasn't my point. What she did insulted me and there are better ways to disagree with attending something she feels is wrong without comparing it to something like murder. I'd never follow a faith that makes people think like that. But that's me.

There are more polite ways to go about things, certainly. But what you like or dislike is of no concern of mine. I am convinced that Catholicism is the truth and I will adhere to and defend that truth regardless of the cost, regardless of anyone's feelings.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There are more polite ways to go about things, certainly. But what you like or dislike is no concern of mine.

I was following you up until here. Im confused. You sound like you are taking offense over my opinion and experience. Ima go back and read it again; but, this view clouds your points.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

edited for clarity

1.

a. By what means does a christian support a sinner if they feel their support will involve them in sin?

When a christian helps a prisioner, he is not seeing his help as being part of the prisoners crime. Yet, my friend connected the two.

b. How does that make sense?

-

My friend was just and example. I do not like christianity. I can care less what my friend believes. I was catholic for four years of my life and had no complaints about the religious sacraments. I was never indoctrinated and dont hate people for their beliefs.

So, please drop the view of my not liking my friends beliefs and trying to have her support something she does not believe in. Ive known her for thirteen years.​

Change your perspective. It helps the conversation be positive. No one is trying to change your views.

Frankly, that should be obvious. The very act of attendance constitutes (at the very least) tacit support.

a. I used to go to shootin up movies with my friends. I dont support murder but the reason I went was for my friends. I put people over my principles. (That is The Dharma. Christians see opposite. Dont need to defend. Just sayin)

b. If I judged people for every sin, I would go nowhere since its not the principle I am speaking of, but the relationship any christian has with another (i.e. killing, insults, indoctrination) at the expense of their principle.

c. Post 64 (when read with an open mind and not defensive) is a great point in how we see christians when they choose one sin over another.

My OP: how does murder and gay-marriage relate?

It can be tough when principle and sentiment clash. But when they do the answer is always principle. This is why so many of the early Christians accepted martyrdom, rather than burn even so much as a single grain of incense to Caesar's statute. It doesn't matter what the personal cost may be. It doesn't matter how many friends it may cost you. The principles of morality come first. And the Church's teaching is clear. All sexual acts outside the sacramental union of one man and one woman are always and everywhere intrinsically evil.

a. Christians killed for standing up for their principles. Saying gay-marriage is murder isnt the same ask killing millions of people; but, many will take it as an insult nonetheless.

b. As for the sacrament of marriage, who are you defending?

Please read my posts. I do not care about the catholic church in regards to who is right or wrong. That is silly. I love the Church, I really do. But how you guys (christians) view the world with your principles, geesh,

Im blessed not to have bad experiences as a catholic but Im not the rest of the people who have.

Murder is the unjust taking of human life. And I don't think that many gay weddings involve the aforementioned. So we agree, such rhetoric is nonsensical.

Thats the point of my OP.

a. The second question was: how does murder relate to mariage?

b. Extra one: how does genitals determine who loves someone else and who does not? (spirituality based on whats between your legs?)

Nevertheless gay marriage is a solemnization of sexual sin. Which is anathema to Catholic principles. Christ calls us to repentance and to the rejection of sin, not to the celebration of it.

Marriage has nothing to do with sex

Again though, this is not what I'm saying. I am saying that you friend is right in her refusal to attend, but not in her conflation of gay marriage and murder. Although it is in the name of enabling sexual sin that million of infants have been murdered in the womb.

I am saying it not you.

a. I was insulted that she compared my (future) marriage to murder.

Whether she attends or not is her call. (Again) Her call. That does not exclude my feelings.

b. She is not the victim. Catholics can be rude too.

There are more polite ways to go about things, certainly.

But what you like or dislike is no concern of mine. I am convinced that Catholicism is the truth and I will adhere to and defend that truth regardless of the cost, regardless of anyone's feelings.

There are more polite ways to go about things, certainly​

a. Yes. Everything else you said sounds like defense of your faith. I dont know why, but thats how you feel.

b. Catholicism can say it has its truth. I agree jesus is the Eucharist and the sacraments insofar they are catholic teachings.

c. That is different than my disagreements. That is my right. You dont need to defend yourself with how I view the church.

All I wanted to know is how murder and marriage relate and I used my friend as an example.

Oh.

It is marriage not gay marriage.

So, how does marriage relate to murder?

 

[Glaurung]

I was following you up until here. Im confused. You sound like you are taking offense over my opinion and experience. Ima go back and read it again; but, this view clouds your points.

In retrospect, that particular point comes off as somewhat harsher in tone than what I had intended. I'm not offended. All I mean to say is that I am not going to be moved by augments of personal feelings.

So, how does marriage relate to murder?

It doesn't, but that's not what I am responding to. I'm responding to this:

If you are against homosexual marriage and have prison ministry, isn't that contradicting the nature of support and bringing people to Christ?

The answer is no. There is no contradiction. In fact, the question is a complete non sequitur.

Those with same sex attractions should of course be treated with compassion and dignity. Nevertheless, same-sex attraction is not an exemption from the demands of the moral law. Their salvation (like everyone else's) is conditioned on the acceptance of the Gospel. Acceptance of the Gospel entails the rejection of sin, including sexual sin. Gay marriage is not the rejection of sin. It is the embrace of it. Thus no Catholic can legitimately attend any such ceremony. No matter what others (Catholic or not) may say, sin is sin.

Now I would respond to your other points, but they're now so all over the place that I'm not sure we're even having the same conversation.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I know it's not your intent but there are some terminology that you are factually (not my opinion) incorrect. I will give you the correct definition and biblical context to show the differences and why your opinions does not make sense to me.

It doesn't, but that's not what I am responding to. I'm responding to this:

The reason I ask is murder is a sin. Gay marriage is a sin. Sin is a sin no matter what. The nature of the sin: does it matter to god? And how does one sin not related to the other when both are sins?

That is why I said it was a contradiction. If god was not against marriage or define it based on whats between your legs, then he would see the nature of the marriage and his blessing not as a sin but sacred. I know what Catholics believe. My disagreement and views are not excluded just because Catholics believe certain types of marriage is a sin.

PT: I know god divides marriage based on genitals. My question has to do with the nature of murder and sex not because they are sins.

The answer is no. There is no contradiction. In fact, the question is a complete non sequitur.

Then they are equal. What you said above is wrong.

Those with same sex attractions should of course be treated with compassion and dignity. Nevertheless, same-sex attraction is not an exemption from the demands of the moral law. Their salvation (like everyone else's) is conditioned on the acceptance of the Gospel. Acceptance of the Gospel entails the rejection of sin, including sexual sin. Gay marriage is not the rejection of sin. It is the embrace of it. Thus no Catholic can legitimately attend any such ceremony. No matter what others (Catholic or not) may say, sin is sin.

Correction

Same sex attraction: someone who is physically, spiritually, and mentally attracted to another person of the same sex. (Opposite sex attraction is someone who is PSN attracted to someone of the opposite sex. Homosexuality and heterosexuality refers to attraction.

The bible speaks of actions

1. Do not lie with a woman as with a man
2. Don't have sex before marriage

These are actions.

Another fact. Straight people were homosexuals according to scripture. They slept with people in sexual promisquity.

Fact: A gay person is not bound to same sex sex. The correlation between the bible and a gay person is totally incorrect interpretation by all christian denominations. Sex can be divided up as sin. Marriage is divided. Attraction excluded.

Now I would respond to your other points, but they're now so all over the place that I'm not sure we're even having the same conversation.

My point: how is the nature of marriage the same as sex?
I just used my friend as an example.

Your issue is misguided:

My friend can do whatever she wants.

I was a Catholic and have no issues with Catholics. I dislike christianity with a passion and that does not exclude my feelings

Feelings are important in both your and my interpetation of the world. Catholics can be wrong. Non Catholics.

This below is my OP question. It is not about my friend. I am not forcing my facts on you. That's on you. In my opinion, that view is totally misdirected.

Gay people can careless about you. So I don't know why you feel influenced by people all because some are activists. Unless you want the world to be Christian, your emotional views cloud your points.

My point is below:

I know marriage is divided by genitals. I know how sex can be divided as well. I know they are both sins. These things do relate in christianity as sins.

That is fine.

How do they relate by the nature of the sin -not- their being sins in themselves?

I tried splitting the points (and addressing them as -my point-blank and your feelings because the former is stated in the OP and the latter clouds your points. I don't discredit feelings. They do need to make sense though.

 

[Muffled]

Was thinking about my former Catholic friend. We talked about relationships. Then, when I asked her if she would come to my wedding (if I had one). She said that was akin to murder.

I just thought this a contradiction.

Catholics have prison ministries. They help people be with Christ and so forth. They don't promote the crime but they are beyond that and doing gods work.

If she came to my wedding, it would be (to her) just going to a prison. But instead of helping and supporting the prisoners in christ, she turns me down who have not committed murder.

Christians, does that make sense?

If you are against homosexual marriage and have prison ministry, isn't that contradicting the nature of support and bringing people to Christ?

I believe not. We don't go to prisons and tell the prisoners that breaking and entering is really great. In other words we are not there to support their criminal beliefs. However we are visitors there and not prisoners who have also committed a crime. In the wedding scenario the concept of being there is an acceptance of a sinful relationship. I believe unless a persons conscience is really sensitive one may attend a celebration.

I believe that is a Catholic thing about not procreating.

 

[Muffled]

These people make my blood boil. And they are such toxic people without even being aware of it. I have removed myself from most people that think like that.

I believe that is a good thing because we are told to avoid you as well.

 

[Muffled]

yet she worships a guy who reqularly ate with thieves and whores.....go figure.

I believe Jesus told the woman caught in adultery "Go and sin no more." So Jesus is not accepting the sin by eating with them. He certainly would not have availed Himself of a whore just to be friendly or for any other reason.

I believe what I said before fits in. One may go to the celebratory dinner and eat with the sinners but one may not be at a ceremony legitimizing sin.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Come to think of it I think I asked this before.

A more specific question. Homosexuality is a sin. Murder is a sin. I understand that. Murder is taking a life. homosexuality is two people, regardless if they are straight or not, having same sex relations.

Does taking a life and having sex, as sins, have any relation to each other that god would see them in the same light as abuse and rape?

When you have sex with someone of your gender does it harm another person? Abuse them? Rape them?

I know the foundation is god-said-so; it beyond that. Do you know gods logic behind the two actions, or does it matter that two people who love each other commit murder?

I understand murder akin to child abuse but not sex.

I understand they are both sins, but my questions doesnt refer to that. Just the logic behind the sin in relation to another.

Things like that.

@Musing Bassist

This is a more specific questions I asked clarifying the OP.


You do not need to address every point. As long as you get the point:

1. How is marriage akin to murder
2. How is sex akin to murder

Take out my friend
I am not trying to force my beliefs on you

These are simple questions.

Sorry I meant @dianaiad

 

[DustyFeet]

brainstorm: what about the use of public ROW ( right of way ) and access / protection delivered by fire depts, / police stations, etc...

my question is about fairness.

is it fair?

it's kinda like a flipped over version of the argument against public funding of abortions.

if a baker or photographer opens a business in america, obtains a business license, and uses the public roads, accepts protection from the public law enforcement and other first responders,

am i paying for discrimination?

is it fair that my tax dollars support something that I feel is spiritually destructive?

for entrepreneurs who want to discriminate, ideally they would live in isolated communities where religious law is the law of the land? kinda like sharia?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Those who sue bakers and photographers, forcing them to provide services that are against their religions are doing precisely that.

They work in the public sphere and have no legal reason to ban certain types of customers. Want to ban the guy trying to shoot up the place? Ok. Want to ban the guy for being a gay black guy, which harms absolutely no one? Not ok.

Far more of one, actually, since the photographer really is being forced to accept/participate in something s/he finds to be very, very wrong.

I don't care. Don't have the job if you don't want to do the job. I'm also against healthcare professionals going against their license by refusing to care for certain patients. The photographer or baker needs to work for a church serving only church people if they want to do things even Jesus didn't tell them to do. The OT says to kill gays. Jesus says to be cool. They want to do neither and I don't think we should reward the religious for disobeying their own scriptures.

NOBODY IS ENTITLED to force someone else to support religious beliefs they do not share.

Correct. If you choose to serve the public, though, you must serve the public. Jesus had to be guilt-tripped into helping non-Jews, but he still helped them.

One could at least say that she "was your friend" and probably ate with you but for her it may be beyond her level of faith to be at your wedding and cause her to stumble in her faith.

IMO she already stumbled. Jesus never told her not to go to a gay wedding. She could've done the generous thing. She chose not to.

There are many things I do now that I didn't when I first gave my life to Christ. In some sense, it may have been necessary as a "baby Christian" but you grow and change.

Indeed. Growth is necessary. However, she can still be called out for being a jerk. We don't claim toddlers are angels when they're throwing tantrums because they haven't grown out of it.

If those bakers and photographers all have screening processes to eliminate from their clientele divorcees, people who had sex before wedlock and people who are on their second marriage then I wholeheartedly agree with you. I mean if sin is sin, we can't just deny gay marriages such services. All sin should be treated equally, is that not what is constantly argued?

Exactly. And since Christianity teaches everyone is a sinner, the photographer and baker have no customers.

I also know a kosher caterer who will only do Kosher Jewish weddings.

Then they are not truly offering public services. They are offering specific services. The others you mentioned were open to the public with general services and only reneged for certain types of people.

All those people have to do is serve only their religion/denomination. Just stop pretending to be a public person. That's where they are hitting the legal speed bumps.

You know...that really odd bit in the first amendment, where government is forbidden to pass a law abridging our ability to exercise our religion?

The bible says we can kill kids just for disobeying. Should the government put a stop to it?

Lawsuits. Ruining businesses.

No. Refusing to serve paying customers ruins businesses. Their money's green just like everyone else's.

That I should embrace gay marriage as just dandy?

You have the religious right to disagree with gay marriage. You can't let it affect public professionalism. Who, if asking for bread, would be given a stone?

What do you mean by you are a Mormon? Are you christian? I assume so....

Christians did lots of bad things to Mormons because although a Christian subset, Christianity doesn't claim them. Don't know why tens of thousands of denominations can be Christian but not this particular one.

3. My OP asks how marriage and murder relate.

Many people are frighteningly dense about the concepts of consent and harm. How can they be anything else? The bible teaches them that rapists will be fine as long as they marry their victims but wearing two kinds of fabric is an abomination unto the Lord. The bible has REALLY bad priorities.

People feel powerless to stop true evil, so they invent stupid evils they can more easily control.

Christ didnt get offended over sinners. what's wrong?

Note who didn't offend him: "sinners" who were only that way because society said they were. He LOATHED those who felt themselves too good to be with "sinners", proving them to be the actual problem. He hung out with people with certain jobs and certain medical issues, none of which are conscious sins, yet society claimed they were filthy sinners who didn't deserve to be treated right.

He said he came to minister to the sick, not the well, but if that were the case, he'd hang out with the self-righteous, for they were the sickest of all. However, he hung out with "sinners" because society kept screwing them over and they needed a hug.

Your whole post is like gay people are attacking you.

We're not safe if he's married.
He'll come stalking us at night
Set to sacrifice our children
To his monstrous appetite
He'll wreak havoc on our village
If we let him wander free

[GASTON]
So it's time to take some action, boys
It's time to follow me!

Through the mist, through the malls
Through the darkness and the shadows
Not into gays, but it's one exciting ride!
Say a prayer, then we're there
At the church abomination
And there's something truly terrible inside!

It's a gay!
He's got fangs, razor-sharp ones!
He's got shade, insults made for the feast
Hear him roar! See him foam!
But we're not coming home
'Til I'm in bed!
No, just head!

[GASTON, ENSEMBLE]
Never mind!

[ENSEMBLE]
Light your torch, mount your horse

[GASTON]
Screw your courage to the sticking place

[ENSEMBLE]
We're counting on Gaston to lead the way

[GASTON]
Call it war, call it threat
You can bet they all will follow
For in times like this, they'll do just as I say

[LEFOU]
There's a beast running wild, there's no question
But I fear the wrong monster's released

[ENSEMBLE]
Taïaut! Taïaut!
Grab your book! God will say,
Now y'all sashay away!

We don't like what we don't understand
In fact, it scares us
And this monster is mysterious at least
Bring your guns, bring your knives
Save your children and your wives
We'll save our village and our lives
From all the gays!

Hearts ablaze, banners high
We go marching into battle
Unafraid although the danger's just increased
Raise the flag, not of rainbows
'Cause Noah's rolling in his grave.
And fifty Christians all just know:
Let's fear the gays!

Go and sin no more....

How can she sin and not all the men who slept with her?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

They work in the public sphere and have no legal reason to ban certain types of customers. Want to ban the guy trying to shoot up the place? Ok. Want to ban the guy for being a gay black guy, which harms absolutely no one? Not ok.


I don't care. Don't have the job if you don't want to do the job. I'm also against healthcare professionals going against their license by refusing to care for certain patients. The photographer or baker needs to work for a church serving only church people if they want to do things even Jesus didn't tell them to do. The OT says to kill gays. Jesus says to be cool. They want to do neither and I don't think we should reward the religious for disobeying their own scriptures.


Correct. If you choose to serve the public, though, you must serve the public. Jesus had to be guilt-tripped into helping non-Jews, but he still helped them.


IMO she already stumbled. Jesus never told her not to go to a gay wedding. She could've done the generous thing. She chose not to.


Indeed. Growth is necessary. However, she can still be called out for being a jerk. We don't claim toddlers are angels when they're throwing tantrums because they haven't grown out of it.


Exactly. And since Christianity teaches everyone is a sinner, the photographer and baker have no customers.


Then they are not truly offering public services. They are offering specific services. The others you mentioned were open to the public with general services and only reneged for certain types of people.

All those people have to do is serve only their religion/denomination. Just stop pretending to be a public person. That's where they are hitting the legal speed bumps.


The bible says we can kill kids just for disobeying. Should the government put a stop to it?


No. Refusing to serve paying customers ruins businesses. Their money's green just like everyone else's.


You have the religious right to disagree with gay marriage. You can't let it affect public professionalism. Who, if asking for bread, would be given a stone?


Christians did lots of bad things to Mormons because although a Christian subset, Christianity doesn't claim them. Don't know why tens of thousands of denominations can be Christian but not this particular one.


Many people are frighteningly dense about the concepts of consent and harm. How can they be anything else? The bible teaches them that rapists will be fine as long as they marry their victims but wearing two kinds of fabric is an abomination unto the Lord. The bible has REALLY bad priorities.

People feel powerless to stop true evil, so they invent stupid evils they can more easily control.


Note who didn't offend him: "sinners" who were only that way because society said they were. He LOATHED those who felt themselves too good to be with "sinners", proving them to be the actual problem. He hung out with people with certain jobs and certain medical issues, none of which are conscious sins, yet society claimed they were filthy sinners who didn't deserve to be treated right.

He said he came to minister to the sick, not the well, but if that were the case, he'd hang out with the self-righteous, for they were the sickest of all. However, he hung out with "sinners" because society kept screwing them over and they needed a hug.


We're not safe if he's married.
He'll come stalking us at night
Set to sacrifice our children
To his monstrous appetite
He'll wreak havoc on our village
If we let him wander free

[GASTON]
So it's time to take some action, boys
It's time to follow me!

Through the mist, through the malls
Through the darkness and the shadows
Not into gays, but it's one exciting ride!
Say a prayer, then we're there
At the church abomination
And there's something truly terrible inside!

It's a gay!
He's got fangs, razor-sharp ones!
He's got shade, insults made for the feast
Hear him roar! See him foam!
But we're not coming home
'Til I'm in bed!
No, just head!

[GASTON, ENSEMBLE]
Never mind!

[ENSEMBLE]
Light your torch, mount your horse

[GASTON]
Screw your courage to the sticking place

[ENSEMBLE]
We're counting on Gaston to lead the way

[GASTON]
Call it war, call it threat
You can bet they all will follow
For in times like this, they'll do just as I say

[LEFOU]
There's a beast running wild, there's no question
But I fear the wrong monster's released

[ENSEMBLE]
Taïaut! Taïaut!
Grab your book! God will say,
Now y'all sashay away!

We don't like what we don't understand
In fact, it scares us
And this monster is mysterious at least
Bring your guns, bring your knives
Save your children and your wives
We'll save our village and our lives
From all the gays!

Hearts ablaze, banners high
We go marching into battle
Unafraid although the danger's just increased
Raise the flag, not of rainbows
'Cause Noah's rolling in his grave.
And fifty Christians all just know:
Let's fear the gays!



How can she sin and not all the men who slept with her?

Now THAT was a fun read!

-
Gaston: Who do they think they are, those gays have tangled with the wrong christian! No one says Gay to Gaston.

L: Heh heh. Darn right.

Dismissed! Rejected! Publicaly humilitated. Why its more than I can bear.

More beer?

What for? Nothing helps. Im disgraced

L: Who, you, never Gaston. You have to pull yourself together.

Gosh.. it disturbs me to see you Gaston
looking so down in the dumps
you think every gay wants to convert you Gaston
even when taking your lumps

There's no gay in town thats not sickened by you
youre every gay's "favorite" guy
Every gay wants to change you Gaston
and its not very hard to see why

No one's slick as Gaston
No one's quick as Gaston
No one's Neck is incredibly thick as Gaston's
For no gay in town half as manly
Dont feel the need to compensate
You can ask Tom, Dick, and Standley
and they'll tell you whose team they prefer to be on

-

You got me laughin'

 

[DustyFeet]

ok, this is a dumb idea... but i want to present it anyway to make a point

i propose a compromise:

i would support no more public funding of abortions. let us left wing lunatics set up a non-profit, a trust, whateva to pay for low income women to get abortions in cases of rape or incest

if

anyone possessing a business license in america is prohibited from discrimination for any reason

if you put it on a ballot, these dusty feet would vote for it

edit: of course, once it's law, it would be even harder for pro-life advocates. because overturning rowe v wade wouldn't be enough