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If a creator exists, why worship it?

"Proven" isn't the issue. Theology revolves around the assumption of a God -- not "proof" of a God. You've just proved my point above. You're using the wrong tools for the wrong job.

Why do you assume that a creator is and will always be unknowable?

Theology
noun, plural theologies.
1. The field of study and analysis that treats of God and of God's attributes and relations to the universe; study of divine things or religious truth; divinity.
2. A particular form, system, branch, or course of this study.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I think god is like a security blanket to many, just like a child as he is growing up will drop the blanket and move on from there, but many still wont let go of the blanket, in whatever form that may take, to grow spiritually we need to drop the blanket and mature into our true self, and that self is the Christ consciousness, or simply being one with all there is.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
If the human race created a new sentient species in the future (doesn't really matter how in this scenario) would it make sense for us to have this new species worship us
Worship, no. Although I think it would make sense for the species to express a great amount of appreciation.
I personally think that would be a bit odd and blatantly narcissistic.
I don't think it would be that odd. People get frustrated at machines for not doing what they want all the time.

So if humanity was created by a "god" would it want our worship?
Because unlike int he scenario above, worshiping G-d is beneficial for the person, not G-d.
Is this "god" if it exists even worthy of worship since it doesn't interfere in our daily lives for good or ill?
I would have said just the opposite. Every single thing that occurs in your life is directly calculated and caused by G-d.
 

raph

Member
If some kind of creator "god" created us and this universe than I gladly thank it for giving me this life. However, your god claims are claims made by humans that lack any evidence to back them up. There is no evidence to show that any divine entity of any kind has interacted with humanity or this world for our benefit or detriment. If you have evidence to back your claims than please provide them. Otherwise, why worship a creator who created us but seems to have no interest in/plan for us?
You are assuming, that He has no interest in us. You are rejecting every form of contact, that He has done, and then you say, He doesn't care. He does care about contacting us, but He doesn't really care about proving it to atheists.
I don't worship a "god" and I am not suffering greatly. Where do you get this belief that not worshipping your god equals suffering. When did he tell you this?
You will suffer greatly sooner or later, if you cling to this perishable world of dust. The only way not to cling to it, is to hold fast unto God. Maybe your life is awesome right now, wait until you are sick, or lose all your money. Without belief in God you will have a feeling, that you have lost all there is. With belief in God you will have a feeling, that you have lost nothing. That is simple logic. Life is suffering, and the only way not to suffer, is escaping life/suffering through Not-Life/God.
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
If a creator exists, why worship it?

To acquire His attributes , to be in His image out of love for Him for creating us and thanking him for endowing us this beautiful life.

Regards
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
You just gave an example of one form of misplaced worship. Greed for wealth and power no matter what harm is caused to others. Refusing proven medical treatments or medical treatment altogether is another form of harmful worship. Inflicting self harm as a form of worship is... well, also harmful. Giving all your money, time and devotion to shady religious leaders is another form of harmful worship. Worship that includes or is based around a mindset that you are powerless and/or inherently flawed, sinful, guilty is psychologically harmful. Worship that encourages a belief/world view that there is a better life/afterlife that ultimately devalues the lives we are living right now.

Okay? I notice you didn't actually answer any of my questions. Have a cookie instead, I guess? :cookie:
 

hoperose

New Member
most of people think that the worship is for the God, except Muslims they know that the worship is for us for ourselves. we find our rest and happiness in the prayer, fasting, giving charity,.... and the other cases of worship. you maybe do all the pleasures in the life but u wot be happy, do u know why??
because u pleasure your body onlllly while your soul is still sad. it needs to submit to her creator.
Questions about Islam?
Live Chat with knowledgeable Muslims at:
www.islam-por.com
 
You are assuming, that He has no interest in us. You are rejecting every form of contact, that He has done, and then you say, He doesn't care.

I have never been contacted by your god or any god. I have yet to see any evidence to suggest that any claimed god concept exists. Therefore I would be lying to myself and everyone else if I said I believed your god or any other god exists. Blind faith isn't enough for me. If a god wants my attention they will actually have to contact me.

He does care about contacting us, but He doesn't really care about proving it to atheists.

So your god only "contacts" those that are already true believers and has written off atheists, got it.

You will suffer greatly sooner or later, if you cling to this perishable world of dust. The only way not to cling to it, is to hold fast unto God. Maybe your life is awesome right now, wait until you are sick, or lose all your money. Without belief in God you will have a feeling, that you have lost all there is. With belief in God you will have a feeling, that you have lost nothing. That is simple logic. Life is suffering, and the only way not to suffer, is escaping life/suffering through Not-Life/God.

Yes, life is going to be full of challenges and tribulations and then you die. Some of us cannot believe in a supernatural safety net that has never been proven to exist.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
If god has constant direct control over our environment than he can maneuver and manipulate us to do whatever he wants us to do. Wouldn't that take away any free will that we have?
Not really sure about that. I am free to choose whether I want to walk down the stairs or not, but not free to choose whether I'll slip and end up tumbling down. Does that mean I don't have free will?
 
Thank you for the cookie!

How so? It seems to me there's some other word we might be looking for here; narcissism doesn't seem like the right one to me. Plus, the reasons one might expect to be worshipped could vary. What if one is expecting it simply because one hypothesizes this will be the case? Like a scientific hypothesis?


If someone created a new sentient species (like human intelligent apes) per my question in the op and demanded them to bow down and worship them, that would be narcissistic. Why do you think a person like that isn't narcissistic?


Who decides when worship is "misplaced?"

Everyone make judgments all the time, how can we not? If someone gets hurt because of the way they worship something than that is obviously harmful. Example: a snake handler gets bitten and dies because he believes god will protect him from snake venom. I think it is a no-brainer to label that misplaced worship.

What is an example of this "great harm" that comes from honoring, respecting, and celebrating something?

Already covered that.

If worship more often than not is an expression of positive elements of a species, does the fact that a few may use it for "great harm" justify discouraging the practice of worship entirely? If a few people use knowledge to build bombs that blow up buildings, should we discourage study of chemistry?


Haven't met anyone who worships chemistry but the main point of this thread is considering if a creator would want worship.


Who am I to tell someone else what they deem of worth? It's not my place.


If one of your loved ones told you they were going to give all their worldly possessions and wealth to some shady cult leader and move to some compound where they are going to cut all ties with the corrupted outside world (which included you), you would have nothing to say?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Thank you for the cookie!

They only had chocolate chip. Sorry if that's not your favorite.

If someone created a new sentient species (like human intelligent apes) per my question in the op and demanded them to bow down and worship them, that would be narcissistic. Why do you think a person like that isn't narcissistic?

I'm noticing a shift in the language used from when you first asked the question and what you are saying here. You did not initially use that word "demand" in the formulation of your question. My thoughts regarding the original question of "would it make sense for us to have this new species worship us" and "would it make sense for us to demand this new species worship us" are not the same, as these questions are very different. Which is the question you intend to ask? Introducing that word "demand" in there makes it about power, where that connotation is absent from the first question.

Everyone make judgments all the time, how can we not? If someone gets hurt because of the way they worship something than that is obviously harmful. Example: a snake handler gets bitten and dies because he believes god will protect him from snake venom. I think it is a no-brainer to label that misplaced worship.

If one adds "in my opinion" in there, sure. I think one should be very careful in presuming to judge what is and is not appropriate for someone else's life and it is often wiser to keep one's judgements only to within the confines of one's own affairs.

Haven't met anyone who worships chemistry but the main point of this thread is considering if a creator would want worship.

That's not really the point, and fair enough. I suppose whether or not a "creator" would want worship would depend on the creator, wouldn't it? I imagine some would, and some would not. Things tend to be diverse like that.

If one of your loved ones told you they were going to give all their worldly possessions and wealth to some shady cult leader and move to some compound where they are going to cut all ties with the corrupted outside world (which included you), you would have nothing to say?

I have no desire to indulge impossible and absurd hypothetical scenarios.

That said, I already remarked above that one should be careful in presuming to judge the lives of others. One's kin folk and relations would reasonably be within the confines of one's own affairs, but in these things, one should take care as well. And, ultimately, do as one will, ideally as in accord with the character, virtue, and honor one wishes to uphold.
 
Not really sure about that. I am free to choose whether I want to walk down the stairs or not, but not free to choose whether I'll slip and end up tumbling down. Does that mean I don't have free will?

We have the power to choose but if someone is deciding what we get to choose from and the circumstances surrounding the choice, we could easily be led wherever god wants us to go. When you also take into account that this being is the one who gave us our intellect and instincts in the first place it will know what we will choose and why. So in that situation, would we truly have free will or just an illusion of it?
 
They only had chocolate chip. Sorry if that's not your favorite.



I'm noticing a shift in the language used from when you first asked the question and what you are saying here. You did not initially use that word "demand" in the formulation of your question. My thoughts regarding the original question of "would it make sense for us to have this new species worship us" and "would it make sense for us to demand this new species worship us" are not the same, as these questions are very different. Which is the question you intend to ask? Introducing that word "demand" in there makes it about power, where that connotation is absent from the first question.



If one adds "in my opinion" in there, sure. I think one should be very careful in presuming to judge what is and is not appropriate for someone else's life and it is often wiser to keep one's judgements only to within the confines of one's own affairs.



That's not really the point, and fair enough. I suppose whether or not a "creator" would want worship would depend on the creator, wouldn't it? I imagine some would, and some would not. Things tend to be diverse like that.



I have no desire to indulge impossible and absurd hypothetical scenarios.

That said, I already remarked above that one should be careful in presuming to judge the lives of others. One's kin folk and relations would reasonably be within the confines of one's own affairs, but in these things, one should take care as well. And, ultimately, do as one will, ideally as in accord with the character, virtue, and honor one wishes to uphold.

People make judgments (develop an opinion) on others, we just do. One of my friends is a wiccan. I don't really see what is so great about worshipping nature and hugging trees or whatever else it is they do but if that's their thing and they're not hurting anybody I don't really care. One of my oldest friends is a JW, and though I find the JW stance against blood transfusions foolish and even dangerous he's still my friend and I respect his right to choose his beliefs even if I don't agree or understand them. I am fully capable of disliking someone's beliefs and liking/respecting them at the same time.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
People make judgments (develop an opinion) on others, we just do. One of my friends is a wiccan. I don't really see what is so great about worshipping nature and hugging trees or whatever else it is they do but if that's their thing and they're not hurting anybody I don't really care. One of my oldest friends is a JW, and though I find the JW stance against blood transfusions foolish and even dangerous he's still my friend and I respect his right to choose his beliefs even if I don't agree or understand them. I am fully capable of disliking someone's beliefs and liking/respecting them at the same time.

If such a virtue is in keeping with who you want to be, great! Continue on that way until you feel that virtue no longer serves you. But I must say I'm a little confused... when did this discussion become about you, personally? Thank you for sharing, all the same. It's a perspective we seem to share. :D
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
If some kind of creator "god" created us and this universe than I gladly thank it for giving me this life. However, your god claims are claims made by humans that lack any evidence to back them up. There is no evidence to show that any divine entity of any kind has interacted with humanity or this world for our benefit or detriment. If you have evidence to back your claims than please provide them. Otherwise, why worship a creator who created us but seems to have no interest in/plan for us?

There is plenty of evidence, but it is not easily confirmed by individuals who have not had similar experiences.
However, the truth is that evidence of the existence of God is worth next to squat.

It should not be that way -but it is -and that is actually part of the reason God "hides himself" as described in scripture.

There are plenty of reasons why God has not made himself immediately apparent to all -did reveal himself to some at times, etc., but first.... Some background....

Imagine for a moment that what is written in the bible is true.
God creates angels -one decides to be disobedient and turns the third for which he was responsible against God -even attempting a coup to take God's throne.
God deals directly with Adam and Eve -they decide to be disobedient after being allowed to have another influence.
God then deals with those afterward who "call upon the name of the Lord" more so than those who do not.
Man's imaginations turn to evil for the most part -and God thins out the population.
God eventually works more directly with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob -who was renamed Israel -then the twelve tribes.
God makes the "old" covenant with them -Israel continually breaks the covenant, though some are obedient to varying degrees -but Israel is generally mindful of God and has a foundation of his law -as much as carnal man can to that point.
Then Christ brings the new covenant -focused on the spirit of the
law rather than just the letter -and makes widely available the spirit of God which can be put within man, enabling man to begin to obey the law in spirit and truth -as well as imparting other "gifts".
Then God works with various eras of his church (not widely known -called the little flock -outlined in Revelation as the "seven churches" ) until Christ returns.
Those in Christ at his return -the dead first, then the living, are made immortal then and reign with Christ as kings and priests on earth for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead are raised after the thousand years to the judgment -and are judged according to their works -some will have done good works regardless of knowledge of God -but some who have done evil work will "be saved, yet so as by fire".

Had you experienced the things written, you would not doubt -but to you they are just words in a book.... for now -and that is understandable. However, knowing God exists doesn't immediately make on perfect -and does not guarantee one will change for the better.

The fact is that knowing God exists wouldn't make much of a difference to most people, so God limited his involvement to that which was necessary and beneficial. We're newbs -inexperienced, and often with an attitude -we generally just don't or can't appreciate him for what he is as we should.

However, the whole of human history will -in the future -be an experience base which all can consider as a whole. Each individual lifetime will be a part of that -and each individual will have experienced their part of a world making its decisions -for the most part -independent of God.

God's "Son" will begin to dwell with men on Earth at his return, as they repopulate the earth after the troubles which precede it -which will have almost completely destroyed mankind.
Those humans will have the benefit of God, Christ and an entire world government which has already experienced this time.
There will be no war during that time. There will be one more attempt at war made by man at the end of the thousand years -when Satan is loosed a short time -against the "camp of the saints", but it will be put down.

It is not true to say that God has no interest in us, or plan for us.
He declared the end from the beginning, had written the overall course of man's history beforehand and guides it to the predetermined end -for our benefit.

He allows us to experience the results of our choices, but also purifies us and brings us back to him -to doing things rightly when we can appreciate that it is right to do so -and that God is who he says he is.

Every major world power, and power shift, from Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon to the ten kings that reign with "the beast" before God sets up his kingdom on earth are accurately described in scripture -but it does require study, a real interest in the matter, and an open mind.

An outline of the positive changes in the future are also included -resurfacing the earth, making better building materials and natural resources available, causing wastelands to be fertile, eventually completely removing the former works of man on earth, changing the nature of animals so that they are not dangerous, teaching the ways of peace to all nations, etc., etc..

There are many proofs of God -but they will be more important and have the greater part of their intended effect for all of mankind after "it is finished".

The fact that it was written and available the whole time will be important -and producing many artifacts which prove certain things did happen as written is a possibility -but actually seeing God and seeing these things happen in the world -being raised from the dead -made immortal ....will all be pretty impressive, too!

Ezekiel 37:
13 Then you will know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people.14"I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken and done it," declares the LORD.'"

God had it written that if you draw near to him, he will draw near to you.
If you are truly interested, I suggest you do so -by studying what he said to do, doing it, and talking to him respectfully.

Otherwise... As for your last question...... It is written that the things of God are apparent in what was made.... and that we are without excuse when we do that which is obviously wrong (paraphrasing) -also, that pure and undefiled religion before God is to visit widows and fatherless in their affliction, and to keep one's self unspotted from the world.....
So righteousness and love is essentially worship of God -regardless of what one knows or believes at any time.

He would rather you did those things than know he exists -that will happen in time, anyway -but when you do see him he will reward you. Meanwhile, you do the world some good.
 
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