If a creator exists, why worship it?

[Tumah]

I'm glad you agree but can you explain what you mean by medium?

I mean the medium through which G-d manifests his Divine mercy or judgement. When someone deserves X, G-d uses a medium of some sort to mete it out.
Its on us to not be the type of people that would be appropriate for G-d to use for meting out His judgement.

And just so you know, I don't believe in evil. For me, it is a contirved term to also reduce culpability. One can choose to do,what is right or wrong. One hopes that if would be right. These are the experiences we choose for our lives, IMO.

Well, that explains why you've chosen to use this ridiculously big font that is annoying to read and makes responding more difficult! You don't believe its evil!

 

[jeager106]

I don't mean to be rude but Tumah has a good point about the large font.
It almost seems you are shouting at readers.
Worship is for the worshipers. It tends to keep us humble and grateful for the blessings we receive.
It is the way to reverently honor and an homage paid to God.

 

[JoStories]

I mean the medium through which G-d manifests his Divine mercy or judgement. When someone deserves X, G-d uses a medium of some sort to mete it out.
Its on us to not be the type of people that would be appropriate for G-d to use for meting out His judgement.

Well, that explains why you've chosen to use this ridiculously big font that is annoying to read and makes responding more difficult! You don't believe its evil!

Sigh.....once again...I am legally blind. I can't see the font unless I enlarge it to be sure I am saying what I mean to say. I have to enlarge yours to see that. And thank you for the insults. Very nice religious compassion you show here. And if you believe being,blind is evil, shame on you. I assure you it's a major pain but far from evil. I think we are done now.

 

[JoStories]

I don't mean to be rude but Tumah has a good point about the large font.
It almost seems you are shouting at readers.
Worship is for the worshipers. It tends to keep us humble and grateful for the blessings we receive.
It is the way to reverently honor and an homage paid to God.

I am NOT shouting. I am blind, or at least almost. I simply love this Christian compassion you all show.

 

[Quintessence]

I am NOT shouting. I am blind, or at least almost. I simply love this Christian compassion you all show.

May I ask what browser you are using? In most browsers, you can set a preference that will increase the text size of everything you read on a website. In the browser I use, Safari, it's under the "advanced" preference and you can check a box that says "Never use font sizes smaller than..." and fill it out. Then you won't have to increase your font size, and better yet, you'll be able to read everything else on the internet better too!

(There's also a ton of accessibility options for your entire computer... at least on the Mac)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That is beautiful; however, worship in and in and of itself is needed by humans to act in gratitude that they are alive, that they wake in the morning, that some find strength raise one child, that..that..that..

As an idea, it makes sense to worship someone who created you. It also make sense that without a creator we can have that "same" act of worship...its not focused on money or on self. It needs no outside party no matter their status spirit or human. Why would a theist see no benefit in the act of worship (from prayer to gathering in one faith) without that person (or thing) needing to be the focus of worship?

Every human being in this world is already worshiping something. If it's not your Creator, then it is some materialistic thing, or a personal thing, whatever it is.

Just look. There are people worshiping money, their own egos, or some person, an idol, a statue, metaphorically or literally. You're all worshiping something, you all adore something, you all love something so much you will give your life for it.

All you have to do now is realize, is it worth it to worship these things that you are worshiping? Is it worth worshiping money? Your egos? A special person in your life?

No matter what you worship and adore in this life, in this world, NOTHING is deserving of that worship. Money won't save you everytime, your ego will consume you in your own fire, a special person in your life will not be there for you all the time, that singer won't be singing for the rest of their life, that statue cannot even hear or see you. NOTHING that you worship in this world will benefit you in either way.

So that means, the ONLY thing worthy of worshiping is The One who created you. The One who created you, your family, your friends, your success, your abilities, every aspect of your life. The One who determines whether good comes to you or bad comes to you. The One who knows your past, present, and future.

Tell me, is there anyone else who compares to The Creator? Is there anyone else worthy of worship?

It all starts by self realizing that you as a human already worship something. Once you figure that out, then understand if that thing is worthy of your worship. You will know that everything in the universe worships the Creator, and that the Creator is the only one deserving of worship and adoration, and nothing else.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The funny thing is, that you don't even need to believe in God, to worship him Its completely irrelevant, if God exists or not. He is the only one worthy of worship, even if He didn't exist

How is that possible? If I was an adopted child and never saw my biological mother, how can I love her and I feel her love as my mother who took care of me all my life?

I (in analogy) have no post cards from my biological mother (say the post cards I recieve are one, extremely outdated, and two not even written by my own bio. mother but a collection of dudes who wrote about her!)

Then family, friends, even strangers tell me the words from those guys ARE my mothers words. How can I personalize their words as the same love my adopted mother gave me? If I had a picture of my bio. mother, maybe I have some idea of her. If she wrote those letters, Id have a sense of her personality through words and handwriting. I dont need to proove she exists....I am here, therefore she does. I understand that I would respect my bio. mother "as I do my adopted mother" and every other family member, friend, and stranger who are oje family who knew my mother personally.

Since I have no direct contact, worship goes through many many people. It goes through Christ (If I were christian), his followers, his prophets, his mother, father, and so forth. I would know God through the community with whom believe in Him. Yet, that is not a personal relationship with God one to one.

How can you love someone who has no direct communication with you? Communication could be through your congregation, through Gods Son and other believers. Communication could be abstract as seeing a sunset and attributing this to God. It could be a physical (thereby biological in origin) feeling. It could be many intermediary ways of communication-person, feeling,observation, community...

Unless these things Make Up Gods love, a part from these things, how does God love you and you God?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If the human race created a new sentient species in the future (doesn't really matter how in this scenario) would it make sense for us to have this new species worship us? I personally think that would be a bit odd and blatantly narcissistic.

So if humanity was created by a "god" would it want our worship? Is this "god" if it exists even worthy of worship since it doesn't interfere in our daily lives for good or ill?

Forgive me if I answered this. If God existed, we would worship Him because He created us. Why give respect to your parents? (If you do) Why not be grateful to do things for them since they did things for you?

It really has nothing to do with the nature of God (external? Spirit? Jesus? Cosmos? Consciousness?), it has to do with being grateful and acting in gratitude--by community, getting to know God, prayer, doing everyday things to honor him, etc--that is worship.

"How" is based on the culture and customs people are raised with. The concept, it just makes sense.

 

[Tumah]

Sigh.....once again...I am legally blind. I can't see the font unless I enlarge it to be sure I am saying what I mean to say. I have to enlarge yours to see that. And thank you for the insults. Very nice religious compassion you show here. And if you believe being,blind is evil, shame on you. I assure you it's a major pain but far from evil. I think we are done now.

Is religious compassion meant to be different than other forms of compassion? If this is your problem, you may want to look into using the zoom already available on your browser or add a disclaimer in your signature so that people can be aware. The way you're doing it now is only accomplishing one thing: giving you something to blame others about.

 

[jeager106]

I am NOT shouting. I am blind, or at least almost. I simply love this Christian compassion you all show.

Jo, we don't know what we don't know. Can you see my arthritic hands or my broken back?
Would have been more polite to simply say what your condition is rather than make a back handed crack.

 

[JoStories]

Jo, we don't know what we don't know. Can you see my arthritic hands or my broken back?
Would have been more polite to simply say what your condition is rather than make a back handed crack.

I have let it be known here repeatedly that I am more or less blind jaeger. Over and over and over again. And that I have severe RA, take long acting morphine and double strength Percocet every day in amounts that would snow someone else and at times, does snow me. I have 2 fake hips, and my entire back is metal. Going through a metal detector when flying is quite interesting, to say the least. So when I see, yet again, someone making fun of my blindness, it tends to...well, frankly, it just pisses me off.

 

[JoStories]

May I ask what browser you are using? In most browsers, you can set a preference that will increase the text size of everything you read on a website. In the browser I use, Safari, it's under the "advanced" preference and you can check a box that says "Never use font sizes smaller than..." and fill it out. Then you won't have to increase your font size, and better yet, you'll be able to read everything else on the internet better too!

(There's also a ton of accessibility options for your entire computer... at least on the Mac)

Is this available with the iPad quintessence? I am not aware of it if it is. I welcome the information. And btw... I don't know how to add a disclaimer to my signature, if I even have one.

 

[jeager106]

I have let it be known here repeatedly that I am more or less blind jaeger. Over and over and over again. And that I have severe RA, take long acting morphine and double strength Percocet every day in amounts that would snow someone else and at times, does snow me. I have 2 fake hips, and my entire back is metal. Going through a metal detector when flying is quite interesting, to say the least. So when I see, yet again, someone making fun of my blindness, it tends to...well, frankly, it just pisses me off.

NO ONE IS MAKING FUN OF YOUR BLINDNESS.
Wish I had some long acting morphine. All I can get is oxycodon but it does help.
What kind of insensitive idiot would make fun of someones disability?

 

[Quintessence]

Is this available with the iPad quintessence? I am not aware of it if it is. I welcome the information. And btw... I don't know how to add a disclaimer to my signature, if I even have one.

Absolutely! I've never tried it, but you can set your entire iPad to increase text sizes. It's under Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Larger Text. There are other accessibility settings in there too that may help you out, such as increasing contrast or bolding text. You'll have to let us know how it works.

 

[JoStories]

NO ONE IS MAKING FUN OF YOUR BLINDNESS.
Wish I had some long acting morphine. All I can get is oxycodon but it does help.
What kind of insensitive idiot would make fun of someones disability?

Thanks jaeger. I wish I could give you some morphine. It's the only thing that gets me through the day sometimes. And you would be surprised at how cruel people can be. Sometimes I read things here and mix up the meaning as I can't always see the words and I get pummeled for it. However, it is IRL that people are the most cruel. I hope your pain gets some relief. Have you tried meditation? That helps me.

 

[JoStories]

Absolutely! I've never tried it, but you can set your entire iPad to increase text sizes. It's under Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Larger Text. There are other accessibility settings in there too that may help you out, such as increasing contrast or bolding text. You'll have to let us know how it works.

You are awesome and I very much thank you for this. I did find it and I can't tell you how much easier it is for me. Merci beaucoup!

 

[jeager106]

Thanks jaeger. I wish I could give you some morphine. It's the only thing that gets me through the day sometimes. And you would be surprised at how cruel people can be. Sometimes I read things here and mix up the meaning as I can't always see the words and I get pummeled for it. However, it is IRL that people are the most cruel. I hope your pain gets some relief. Have you tried meditation? That helps me.

Jo, there is an old song, Dillon maybe, that says "people that suffer together are closer connected".
Believe me I feel your pain.
I've been on morphine tabs, time release, for break thru pain but the gov't got stupid and now in Ohio I can only
get one pain releiver so I stuck with oxycodone 15 mg. My pain do was an addict. Damn! He's in jail now so I had to
find a new pain clinic. Private clinics take advantage of people that need narcs just to function.
This new quack gave me twenty-four facet injections that did nothing but make me far worse.
I think he knicked some sciatic nerves damaging them. He wanted to use microwaves to BURN the nerves, an
experimental proceedure that has mixed results. I said "no thanks" so he refused to treat me now citing I'm
"uncooperative".
I'm waiting to get into the Cleveland clinic for a real good work up and proper diagnoses.
In the mornings I take an oxy with my coffee and wait at least 3 hours before I can walk.
It sucks.
All this because I wouldn't shoot the man that I was arresting & he crippled me.
That too sucks.

 

[JoStories]

Jo, there is an old song, Dillon maybe, that says "people that suffer together are closer connected".
Believe me I feel your pain.
I've been on morphine tabs, time release, for break thru pain but the gov't got stupid and now in Ohio I can only
get one pain releiver so I stuck with oxycodone 15 mg. My pain do was an addict. Damn! He's in jail now so I had to
find a new pain clinic. Private clinics take advantage of people that need narcs just to function.
This new quack gave me twenty-four facet injections that did nothing but make me far worse.
I think he knicked some sciatic nerves damaging them. He wanted to use microwaves to BURN the nerves, an
experimental proceedure that has mixed results. I said "no thanks" so he refused to treat me now citing I'm
"uncooperative".
I'm waiting to get into the Cleveland clinic for a real good work up and proper diagnoses.
In the mornings I take an oxy with my coffee and wait at least 3 hours before I can walk.
It sucks.
All this because I wouldn't shoot the man that I was arresting & he crippled me.
That too sucks.

Omg. I'm so terribly sorry. I don't believe in guns jaeger, (sorry...nurse here who has seen too g*ddamn many GSW's)...but I also believe that you should not have been subjected to such horse ****. Stay away from what those doctors are recommending. It WILL make you worse. I have had to find pain clinics in my travels but now I'm retired and disabled, as you can imagine. As I suspect you must be too. Rhizotomies might help but are dangerous, however that would kill the pain. Here in Maine, I can get all my narcotics but we have to sign a contract for them. And btw...a rhizotomy is when the neurosurgeon cuts the nerves. Voila, no pain. But no sensation either. PM me if you need more information. Hang in there friend, I know what you are living with.

 

[OurCreed]

If there is a creator why do you assume it cares about us? We could simply be a by-product of the creation of this universe or an experiment. Putting the claims of your religion and every religion aside and looking at the world and seeing it as it is doesn't support the existence of a creator that is concerned with our welfare and loves us. If you can provide any evidence that a loving creator exists than please provide it. Otherwise, evidence would suggest that if a creator exists it is at best apathetic concerning us. Why worship an apathetic creator?

If there is a creator why do you assume it cares about us?

Because it created us. It's called deductive reasoning. Once you prove or accept the first premise, the others follow suit. If we can accept the reality for the sake of conversation that there is a creator, the next premise tells us that this Creator cares about us, because He (no gender implied) created our lives and every means of our livelihood. He gave us food, water, means of clothing ourselves, and all the tools necessary to live. The fact that we are living in cities and civilizations right now proves that this Creator cares about our well being. You can get more specific, look at water in itself. Not only is it beneficial for us humans, it is a necessity for life itself, and other creations, living and non-living, benefit from it. We can go through millions of examples to show that this Creator cares about what He creates, otherwise, if He did not care, then everything that He created (this universe), would be in chaos. You wouldn't see an elegant working system, you wouldn't see life, you wouldn't see complexity.

We could simply be a by-product of the creation of this universe or an experiment.

If we were a by-product of the creation of this universe, what created the universe? What started it off? What designed the laws?

If we were created in an experiment, fair enough, who were the experimenters? Are they finite like us? If they are, that means they also had a beginning and had a creator.

Thing is, logically speaking, all things that are finite, can come only from infinites. Infinites cannot come from finites, and finites don't come from finites and stop right there. In order to get anything finite, you need to have an infinite.

Putting the claims of your religion and every religion aside and looking at the world and seeing it as it is doesn't support the existence of a creator that is concerned with our welfare and loves us.

I already showed in my first paragraph, without any mention or religion of religious beliefs, but only through logical deductive reasoning, that our existence (finite) AND livelihood fully supports the existence of a Creator (infinite) AND the fact that He cares about us.

Our existence = Finite -> Creator = Infinite
Our livelihood & Sustencance of everything in the universe -> Creator cares

 

[Robert Landbeck]

If the human race created a new sentient species in the future (doesn't really matter how in this scenario) would it make sense for us to have this new species worship us? I personally think that would be a bit odd and blatantly narcissistic.

So if humanity was created by a "god" would it want our worship? Is this "god" if it exists even worthy of worship since it doesn't interfere in our daily lives for good or ill?

I suspect the idea of 'worship' understood by tradition is a corruption. More neo-paganism with a theological spin on top. But if God were to offer our species the 'means' for ethical advance and growth that neither reason nor evolution were able to provide, paving the way for real progress in our troubled world, simply obedience and integrity to such a 'means', probably as in the beginning, in the form of a single moral law, would be appropriate worship in itself. The Final Freedoms