If Adam had not sinned.

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I don't know, that is just what it says.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I mean Immortal in it's purest sense: the inability to age. or very very slow aging, once physical maturity is reached. Other benefits, such as immunity to disease, poisons, and other such things, vary greatly. However in a "pure" immortality paradigm, as presented here, the being with immortality is always vulnerable to physical damage.
According to the verse above, Adam and Eve would have died from the fruit, thus preventing the human race from spreading, but they didn't die. Adam, in fact, lived for nearly a millennium
This must have taken place after the death of Abel and the banishment of Cain, as they are not mentioned. However, this does show Adam's extremely long life despite his death sentence. This can only mean that Adam, and later Eve, were created immortal. But once they had sinned, God took away their immortality.
Angels have immortality, as Archangel Michael supposedly did battle with Lucifer during the latter's rebellion in Heaven, yet is described later in the New testament. Which takes place several millennia later. In addition, angels are confirmed to be physically superior to humans in every way (the reason for Lucifer's rebellion), making them harder to kill and thus slightly closer to invulnerability than humans.
God is Immortal and Invulnerable, completely resistant to all physical damage. However as a being who went to great lengths to allow humanity to return to his side, I'm sure he can have his feelings hurt (he would have simply killed Adam and Eve and started over if he didn't have an emotional attachment to them), though it sounds like a very bad idea to test that theory.
Your definition for mortality confuses me, could you elaborate on it further?

How can angels have immortality when immortality is death proof?

Once immortal always immortal.
God took away A&E 'everlasting life' not immortality.
Everlasting life meant live as long as obedient to God.
If A&E remained faithful to God they would be alive today.

Angels are also dependent on being obedient to God.
The fallen angels were disobedient. Jude 6

Isn't Satan a sinner?
What is the wage sinners pay according to Romans 6v23?
Satan being a sinner will pay the price of sin which is death.

Satan is a fallen angel and according to Hebrews [2v14 B] Satan will be destroyed. The destroyed are not alive. The immortal can Not be destroyed.

Adam did die within his millennial-long day of allotted life.
In other words, Adam was as good as dead in God's eyes,
but Adam just did not 'drop over' so to speak til age 930.
The oldest person in Scripture died before age 1000.

God's purpose for earth is that earth is to be populated by the descendants of Adam and Eve. [Not emotional attachment] Gen 1v28
If God would have let A&E die on the literal day they sinned we simply would not be here. God was not changing his purpose for earth.

 

[Azekual]

How can angels have immortality when immortality is death proof?

Heaven is our afterlife but their natural "Realm" so to speak.

Once immortal always immortal.
God took away A&E 'everlasting life' not immortality.
Everlasting life meant live as long as obedient to God.
If A&E remained faithful to God they would be alive today.

Before or after their banishment from the Garden?
Your definition of "everlasting Life" is my definition is the same as my definition of immortality.

Angels are also dependent on being obedient to God.
The fallen angels were disobedient. Jude 6

but they were not killed, simply banished to Earth and Hell

Isn't Satan a sinner?
What is the wage sinners pay according to Romans 6v23?
Satan being a sinner will pay the price of sin which is death

.

you seem to misunderstand my definition of Immortal. Immortality is the inability to age or die from aging. An Immortal being can be easily killed by an outside force (such as a ****** off God).
You are thinking of invulnerability. Which is, depending on who you ask, the inability to be harmed by and outside force.

Satan is a fallen angel and according to Hebrews [2v14 B] Satan will be destroyed. The destroyed are not alive. The immortal can Not be destroyed.

-sigh-

Already explained immortality

Adam did die within his millennial-long day of allotted life.
In other words, Adam was as good as dead in God's eyes,
but Adam just did not 'drop over' so to speak til age 930.
The oldest person in Scripture died before age 1000.

I said nearly a millennium, and Methuselah died at the age of 989
Then why did it take Adam a day to be dead in God's eyes, why not right then?

God's purpose for earth is that earth is to be populated by the descendants of Adam and Eve. [Not emotional attachment] Gen 1v28
If God would have let A&E die on the literal day they sinned we simply would not be here. God was not changing his purpose for earth.[/QUOTE]
yet God said they would die on that literal Day, creating a contradiction.

 

[Katzpur]

why not?

Actually, it's not quite that simple. After Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, they realized for the first time that they were naked. This seems like a kind of an odd fact to mention unless it was symbolic of something or other. To us, it implies that Adam and Eve, though physically capable of sexual relations before eating the fruit, were sexually naive, much like children. If they didn't realize they were naked, it would be quite a stretch to assume that they found one another's bodies sexually stimulating. The Bible also makes no mention of the fact that Adam "knew Eve" until after they had been cast out of the Garden. We take these two facts together to mean that it was not until after they ate the forbidden fruit, were cast out of the Garden of Eden and became mortal that they became sexually aware and, hence, capable of procreating.

 

[Katzpur]

If they had children before they sinned, we would still be in Eden...

Kind of crowded, wouldn't you say?

...and we would all have physical immortality instead of only spiritual immortality.

And do you think this is what God actually wanted?

Back on subject: I can only imagine what happened to Adam after his death. He may have gone to heaven, but given that Judaism hadn't been founded when he died, his sin probably put him in Hell.

That's interesting. Mormonism holds him in high esteem. According to our belief, He was one of the greatest Old Testament prophets and was highly favored by God.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Actually, it's not quite that simple. After Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, they realized for the first time that they were naked. This seems like a kind of an odd fact to mention unless it was symbolic of something or other. To us, it implies that Adam and Eve, though physically capable of sexual relations before eating the fruit, were sexually naive, much like children. If they didn't realize they were naked, it would be quite a stretch to assume that they found one another's bodies sexually stimulating. The Bible also makes no mention of the fact that Adam "knew Eve" until after they had been cast out of the Garden. We take these two facts together to mean that it was not until after they ate the forbidden fruit, were cast out of the Garden of Eden and became mortal that they became sexually aware and, hence, capable of procreating.

Wow, that is a really good point. I had never thought about that before.

 

[quietstorm]

Life is such that there are many things that we are not aware of until those specific times of awakening. Then we wonder how comes we didn't realize this or that. Sin exposes us in the same way that nakedness does. Both parties had a desire for what they were not allowed to have, that inner desire which stemmed from disobedience/rfebellion was exposed. They could not cover it up even as they could not cover up their bodies though they tried.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Before sin entered the world of mankind, God had already given his stated purpose at Genesis [1v28] to reproduce. Earth was to be filled [populated] with the offspring of perfect Adam and Eve giving birth to humanly perfect children.

 

[Azekual]

According to our belief, He was one of the greatest Old Testament prophets and was highly favored by God.

He didn't teach anything.
How was he a prophet?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Why did God punish Adam and Eve for doing what he wanted them to do?

- We have to remember that God commanded Adam and Eve not to partake of the fruit. God will never command us to do something that will not bring us closer to him. God did however want Adam and Eve to grow stronger and gain experience and learn the difference between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to gain the experience that God knew they needed it meant that they would have to leave his presence, become mortal and experience pain and suffering in their lives as one does when they leave the presence of God. The experiences in their mortal lives taught them the wonder, beauty and love there is being with God. From the Book of Mormon, I have learned that when Adam and Eve left the Garden that they understood God's plan for them and were grateful for there experiences, even when going through difficult experiences.
" 23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin. 24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.
25 Adam fell that men might be; and men care, that they might have joy."
~2 Nephi Chapter 2
"10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had aseed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.
12 And Adam and Eve blessed the name of God, and they made all things known unto their sons and their daughters.
~Moses Chapter 5

I don't think Adam and Eve were too upset with God and Him allowing them to leave His presence. In fact for the first time, they were happy, not because they were out of God's presence, but because they knew what happiness was and they knew that God was the source of all their happiness.

Thank you for asking such good questions.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Heaven is our afterlife but their natural "Realm" so to speak.
Before or after their banishment from the Garden?
Your definition of "everlasting Life" is my definition is the same as my definition of immortality.
but they were not killed, simply banished to Earth and Hell
you seem to misunderstand my definition of Immortal. Immortality is the inability to age or die from aging. An Immortal being can be easily killed by an outside force (such as a ****** off God).
You are thinking of invulnerability. Which is, depending on who you ask, the inability to be harmed by and outside force.
Already explained immortality
I said nearly a millennium, and Methuselah died at the age of 989
Then why did it take Adam a day to be dead in God's eyes, why not right then?
God's purpose for earth is that earth is to be populated by the descendants of Adam and Eve. [Not emotional attachment] Gen 1v28
If God would have let A&E die on the literal day they sinned we simply would not be here. God was not changing his purpose for earth.

yet God said they would die on that literal Day, creating a contradiction.[/quote]

There is no Scripture that says Adam was immortal.
Adam could only have everlasting life if obedient.
Adam did not have life within himself.
Adam still had to eat and breathe to continue to exist.

Satan is not death proof according to Hebrews [2v14 B]
Jesus will destroy Satan, so angels are Not immortal but also subject to destruction if disobedient to God.

Jesus went to hell according to Acts 2vs27,32; Psalm 16v10.
There is no mention of Adam going to hell.
From dust back to dust.

Adam was already dead in God's eyes 'the literal day' perfect Adam sinned.
Adam lost human perfection and died within a thousand-year day.
Not a literal 24-hr day because as Psalm [90v4] shows time in God's viewpoint as a thousand years as being as yesterday....
2nd Peter 3v8 says: a thousand years as one day.

Please notice that even in Genesis the word 'day' has shades of meaning.
All of the creative days are summed up as a 'day' at Gen 2v4.
The 'daylight hours' are also called as 'day' at Gen 1v5.

Jesus thousand-year reign over earth is his 'millennial-long day' of reigning over earth. Not all go to heaven just those of Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10; 14vs3,4.
Except for those of Matt 12v32, all the rest that died before Jesus died will have an earthly resurrection such as John the Baptist and king David.
-Matthew 11v11; Acts 2v34.

 

[waitasec]

There is no Scripture that says Adam was immortal.

can you explain what this means?
gen 1:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
gen 2:3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

 

[URAVIP2ME]

can you explain what this means?
gen 1:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
gen 2:3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

Do the immortal die, No because the immortal are: death proof.

God gifted or granted to Jesus to have life from within [John 5v26]

Adam did not have life from within [immortal], but Adam was offered everlasting life on a paradisaic earth as long as Adam remained obedient to God.

External forces were also needed to keep Adam alive.
Adam still had to breathe and eat to remain alive.

God is self contained. God does not need air or food to keep on living.

All of God's creation are dependent on obedience to him or will perish.

2nd Peter 3v9; Psalm 92v7; Proverbs 2vs20-22; 10v30; 21v18

 

[waitasec]

Do the immortal die, No because the immortal are: death proof.

God gifted or granted to Jesus to have life from within [John 5v26]

Adam did not have life from within [immortal], but Adam was offered everlasting life on a paradisaic earth as long as Adam remained obedient to God.

External forces were also needed to keep Adam alive.
Adam still had to breathe and eat to remain alive.

God is self contained. God does not need air or food to keep on living.

All of God's creation are dependent on obedience to him or will perish.

2nd Peter 3v9; Psalm 92v7; Proverbs 2vs20-22; 10v30; 21v18

seems petty.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

yup. God has done everything he can to help us not perish, to the point that if we don't listen to what he says, perishing is unavoidable.

 

[waitasec]

yup. God has done everything he can to help us not perish, to the point that if we don't listen to what he says, perishing is unavoidable.

i think once you get used to the idea that we all die...it's get easier and you start living.
i don't think that highly of myself that the ultimate supreme being is concerned about my faith in it, seems very very trivial.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

i think once you get used to the idea that we all die...it's get easier and you start living.
i don't think that highly of myself that the ultimate supreme being is concerned about my faith in it, seems very very trivial.

That is because you are missing the concept of the Ultimate Supreme Being being your Father.

 

[McBell]

That is because you are missing the concept of the Ultimate Supreme Being being your Father.

There is a difference between "missing" the concept and just flat out "not accepting" the concept.

For example, I do not accept the concept of the stork bringing babies.
I am not missing or misunderstanding or ignoring it, I simple do not accept it.

 

[waitasec]

That is because you are missing the concept of the Ultimate Supreme Being being your Father.

and again, what is the difference between that line of thinking and the guy who burned himself alive or those guys that flew into the WTC...or those suicide bombers...or those who killed their children through faith healing...
none.
if it is your moral compass that tells you this sort of behavior isn't right, then what is the point of religion?
slavery was justified
segregation was justified
the subjection of women was justified
wars are justified

nothing new..same old BS

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

An atheist can do a lot of bad stuff for their beliefs, and what are people going to blame it on? Religion. As hard as it is to try not to believe in anything, one always ends up believing in something. So long as that is so religion will always be there to blame.