If Adam had not sinned.

[waitasec]

An atheist can do a lot of bad stuff for their beliefs,

like?

and what are people going to blame it on? Religion.

no i blame the individual that uses religion as an excuse for bad behavior

As hard as it is to try not to believe in anything,

it's actually quite easy...

one always ends up believing in something.

whats wrong with believing in yourself as a flawed person?

So long as that is so religion will always be there to blame.

i blame the individual that uses religion to justify bad behavior.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

and again, what is the difference between that line of thinking and the guy who burned himself alive or those guys that flew into the WTC...or those suicide bombers...or those who killed their children through faith healing...
none.
if it is your moral compass that tells you this sort of behavior isn't right, then what is the point of religion?
slavery was justified
segregation was justified
the subjection of women was justified
wars are justified

nothing new..same old BS

When you state things like this, it sure doesn't seem to me like you are blaming the individual, it looks to me like you are blaming religion.

 

[waitasec]

When you state things like this, it sure doesn't seem to me like you are blaming the individual, it looks to me like you are blaming religion.

because it's the individual who decides why they are justified in doing such things...

yes people do bad things for various reasons, religion is one of them.
if one uses their moral sense to distinguish bad behavior done in the name of religion, then what is the purpose of religion?
religion has been used as an excuse for bad behavior, to me religion should be the antithesis of bad behavior, don't you think?
however it has proven it's to be just like any other excuse

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

religion is just a system of beliefs. Throughout the history of the world there have been really good beliefs, and really bad beliefs. You can blame religion as an excuse for all the wrong doings in the world, but you can also blame religion as an excuse for all the good doings in the world as well. You are punching a revolving door.

 

[waitasec]

religion is just a system of beliefs. Throughout the history of the world there have been really good beliefs, and really bad beliefs. You can blame religion as an excuse for all the wrong doings in the world,

did i blame religion for all the wrong doing?
no i didn't. i'm only putting it where it belongs...
on a long list of excuses.

but you can also blame religion as an excuse for all the good doings in the world as well. You are punching a revolving door.

interesting, why did you only give religion credit for all the good things...?
that is a fallacy.
why not acknowledge the moral sense people use to distinguish good and bad...?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

religion is just a system of beliefs. Throughout the history of the world there have been really good beliefs, and really bad beliefs. You can blame religion as an excuse for all the wrong doings in the world, but you can also blame religion as an excuse for all the good doings in the world as well. You are punching a revolving door.

James [1v27] shows there is an approved religion or way of worship.

The Pharisees built up a system of worship saying that it had God's approval.
But their system did not meet with God's approval according to Jesus.
Matthew 23v35; Rev 18v24.

Ancient Israel's belief system was separate from the surrounding nations.
After first-century Christianity ended emerged a religious syncretism.
The result of blending and mixing the non-Christian belief systems with Scripture the world ended up with a fusion resulting in a new or different belief system that can not be reconciled to biblical first-century Christianity.

As the peoples migrated from ancient Babylon they took with them their pagan belief systems and spread it world wide in a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great that has evolved with the philosophies of men that rise and fall in popularity with the whims of men not with first-century Christianity.
Even when exposed clergy still insist of keeping the religious mirage alive.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

did i blame religion for all the wrong doing?
no i didn't. i'm only putting it where it belongs...
on a long list of excuses.


interesting, why did you only give religion credit for all the good things...?
that is a fallacy.
why not acknowledge the moral sense people use to distinguish good and bad...?

the moral sense of doing good and bad is a religion.
people do good things because they believe it is the right thing to do.
A religion is any system of beliefs, either organized or unorganized. There is no escaping it. Religion is why people do the things they do.

 

[Me Myself]

the moral sense of doing good and bad is a religion.

FALSE

people do good things because they believe it is the right thing to do.
A religion is any system of beliefs, either organized or unorganized. There is no escaping it. Religion is why people do the things they do.

Depends. A lot of people do good things because their hearts tell them to. It is not that they "beleive" that it is "Right". It is not a mental thing. It fells right, that is enough. They don´t expect retribution, the act is it´s own retribution.

BTW, religion is something grupal. If your beleives are individual and not shared with a group of people, it is a personal moral compass and it would be unprecise to call it a religion.

 

[waitasec]

the moral sense of doing good and bad is a religion.

what are you talking about..?

people do good things because they believe it is the right thing to do.

because of their moral sense...

A religion is any system of beliefs, either organized or unorganized. There is no escaping it.

funny, i don't use religion to tell me what is right or wrong...i seem to have escaped that, i rely on my own personal moral sense

Religion is why people do the things they do.

it's one of the many reasons people do the things they do. in other words, it ain't' so special...it doesn't set anyone apart

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Dictionary.com
"re·li·gion   [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith."

I don't see anywhere where it says that religion is always shared among a group of people. It just said generally.

Is religion not a set of beliefs that one uses to guide one's life?
I don't care if you are a vegetable, everyone has a set of beliefs that they use to guide their lives.

 

[waitasec]

Dictionary.com
"re·li·gion   [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith."

I don't see anywhere where it says that religion is always shared among a group of people. It just said generally.

well you need to re read it #2

Is religion not a set of beliefs that one uses to guide one's life?
I don't care if you are a vegetable, everyone has a set of beliefs that they use to guide their lives.

yes they do...it is not religious, it is humanistic.

"usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."
funny, we can usually determine if the conduct of human affairs are moral or not without religion...
besides, a moral code of conduct is a relative term... determined by our own personal moral sense

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I don't see anywhere where it says that religion is always shared among a group of people. It just said generally. generally doesn't mean always.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Here is a second opinion from another dictionary.
Religion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Religion: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

Sounds a lot like what I just said about a system of beliefs that one uses to guide one's life.

 

[waitasec]

i don't understand where you are going with this...

i'm blaming the idea of religion as much as i would blame the idea of hate, intolerance and willful ignorance. it's up to the individual person to take on these attributes. i'm not implying that religion in and of it self is wrong because there are a lot of peaceful religions...
however, religion hasn't set it self apart from the long list of excuses for bad behavior.

and you never answered my questions, why did you only give religion credit for all the good things and
why not acknowledge the moral sense people use to distinguish good and bad...?[/QUOTE]

 

[McBell]

I don't see anywhere where it says that religion is always shared among a group of people. It just said generally. generally doesn't mean always.

Yet you ignore the "and"...

 

[Awoon]

Heaven is everywhere

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Yet you ignore the "and"...

what is your point about the and?

 

[McBell]

what is your point about the and?

"and" is an including word.

Meaning that you are to include everything after the "and" with everything before the "and".

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Heaven is everywhere

According to Scripture the 'Bible's heaven' is God's specific dwelling place.

[1st Kings 8 vs23,27,30,34,36,39,43,45,49; Hebrews 9v24]

 

[e2ekiel]

If Adam had not sinned, would he eventually have gone to heaven?

the Bible doesn't say one way or the other.