If Adam had not sinned.

[Awoon]

According to Scripture the 'Bible's heaven' is God's specific dwelling place.

[1st Kings 8 vs23,27,30,34,36,39,43,45,49; Hebrews 9v24]

God moved into Heaven after he created it?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God moved into Heaven after he created it?

Heaven in Scripture carries the meaning of both physical [material] heavens and the spiritual heavens.

It is Not the physical/material heavens where God resides. [1st Kings 8v27]

The spiritual heavens existed before God created the visible world.

The Hebrew word used is: shamayim which basically means high or lofty.
God's place of dwelling then is high or lofty, and mankind might have to wait until Jesus millennial reign over earth to know more.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

the Bible doesn't say one way or the other.

The angelic world was created first. [Job 38 vs4-7]

The material/physical world came after the spirit world was created.

Adam was never part of the spirit world.

Adam was a new or original physical creation.

Adam was only offered everlasting life [Gen 2v17] if obedient.
No alternative life was offered to Adam.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

the Bible doesn't say one way or the other.

Jesus was clear that No one ascended to heaven at John [3v13].
Since no one ascended to heaven that would have to include: Adam.

Everyone that lived between Genesis and Malachi and died before Jesus died [Matt 11v11; Acts 2v34] do Not have a heavenly reward, but an earthly promise of an earthly resurrection except for those of Matthew 12v32.
The faithful of Hebrews [11vs 13,39] did not yet receive the promise because the earthly resurrection will be during Jesus millennial reign over earth.

Heaven is only for those of Revelation 20v6; 5vs9,10; 14v4 who will reign with Jesus for a thousand years over earthly subjects.- Psalm 72v8.

 

[gnostic]

Jesus was clear that No one ascended to heaven at John [3v13].
Since no one ascended to heaven that would have to include: Adam.

Everyone that lived between Genesis and Malachi and died before Jesus died [Matt 11v11; Acts 2v34] do Not have a heavenly reward, but an earthly promise of an earthly resurrection except for those of Matthew 12v32.
The faithful of Hebrews [11vs 13,39] did not yet receive the promise because the earthly resurrection will be during Jesus millennial reign over earth.

Heaven is only for those of Revelation 20v6; 5vs9,10; 14v4 who will reign with Jesus for a thousand years over earthly subjects.- Psalm 72v8.

What about Enoch and Elijah?

Both seemed to be taken away before they could experience death.

 

[waitasec]

The angelic world was created first. [Job 38 vs4-7]

The material/physical world came after the spirit world was created.

Adam was never part of the spirit world.

Adam was a new or original physical creation.

Adam was only offered everlasting life [Gen 2v17] if obedient.
No alternative life was offered to Adam.

does this mean we existed before we were born in the physical world?

 

[Thief]

The angelic world was created first. [Job 38 vs4-7]

The material/physical world came after the spirit world was created.

Adam was never part of the spirit world.

Adam was a new or original physical creation.

Adam was only offered everlasting life [Gen 2v17] if obedient.
No alternative life was offered to Adam.

I agree with you, except for the last part.

There was never an offer made.
It was simply a matter of choosing.

Man was never intended to live forever physically.
That much and the ability to have children would have overrun this planet centuries ago.
And then we all die all at once, as with extinction.
(and that event is pending)

As for the consequence of partaking of something forbidden....
yes of course...on a spiritual level.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I agree with you, except for the last part.
There was never an offer made.
It was simply a matter of choosing.
Man was never intended to live forever physically.
That much and the ability to have children would have overrun this planet centuries ago.
And then we all die all at once, as with extinction.
(and that event is pending)
As for the consequence of partaking of something forbidden....
yes of course...on a spiritual level.

Yes agree choosing. [Deut 30v19;32v5]
And Adam could live forever physically if obedient.
[angels already populated the heavens]
Genesis [1v28] they were to procreate until the earth was full or populated with perfectly healthy people of sound heart, mind and body as Adam had originally at his creation.
They were not to over fill or over populate earth.
Isaiah [45v18] says God's purpose for the earth is for earth to be inhabited .
The earth will abide forever. -Ecclesiastes 1v4 B.
In the end as Jesus promised the humble meek will inherit the earth.
-Matthew 5v5; Psalm 37vs11,29.

Please notice who remains at Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30; 21v18

 

[Thief]

Yes agree choosing. [Deut 30v19;32v5]
And Adam could live forever physically if obedient.
[angels already populated the heavens]

So heaven was off limits from the beginning?
Man was never intended to ascend to a spiritual life?
I can't agree.
The Carpenter did say we become as the angels.

Genesis [1v28] they were to procreate until the earth was full or populated with perfectly healthy people of sound heart, mind and body as Adam had originally at his creation.

Man was given dominion...nothing more.
Dominion becomes corrupt as Man would do so unto his fellow man.

They were not to over fill or over populate earth.
Isaiah [45v18] says God's purpose for the earth is for earth to be inhabited.

Yeah....this would be the place where spirit can blend to flesh.
This would be the world of such chemistry.

The earth will abide forever. -Ecclesiastes 1v4 B.

Yeah...but this verse does not include Man.

In the end as Jesus promised the humble meek will inherit the earth.
-Matthew 5v5; Psalm 37vs11,29.

This is open to various perspectives.
I actually saw a cartoon that displays a surprise ending.

Please notice who remains at Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30; 21v18

Indeed...and you would expect this world to be 'home'?
The kingdom is not of this world.

ps...picking apart your post is not my favorite technique.
I actually criticized the practice moments ago in another thread.
But quoting scripture as you do would leave little alternative.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Thief-

Adam was to have a spiritual life because Adam was to be a worshiper of his Creator.
Adam was not intended to turn into a spirit creation [angel].

Jesus 'brothers' of Matthew 25v40; 1st Cor 15v50 are redeemed from earth to be part of a heavenly resurrection. [Rev 5vs9,10; 14v4; 20v6]

Everyone that lived between Genesis and Malachi and died before Jesus died [John 3v13] were not offered a heavenly hope but an earthly hope. -Genesis 22vs17,18; Rev22v2

'Dominion' or as Solomon wrote [Ecc8v9] about 'imperfect' man that he dominates man to his injury. That is why God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth. -Rev 11v18 B.

Spirit blending with flesh? Huh? Since flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God [1st Cor 15v50], and as verse 40 says, there are both heavenly and earthly bodies.
Not a mixing of bodies.

Ecc[1v4] does mention the earth existing forever, and according to Isaiah [45v12,18] God created the earth to be inhabited.
Who remains according to Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30; 21v18 ?___________

Men's kingdoms are of this present world of unrighteous.
Pick up any morning newspaper and real all about the results of men's kingdoms ruling.
Then, pick up the Bible and read about what God's kingdom will do with men's kingdoms.
-Daniel 2v44; 7vs13,14; Isaiah 9v7.

What is the earth going to be full of according to Isaiah 11 vs4-9 ?

Where does Jesus have kingdom subjects according to Psalm 72v8 ?

 

[waitasec]

if adam had not sinned we would be ignorant of our actions and wouldn't know what good an evil meant...
ignorance is heaven on earth.

 

[Thief]

Thief-

Adam was to have a spiritual life because Adam was to be a worshiper of his Creator.
Adam was not intended to turn into a spirit creation [angel].

Jesus 'brothers' of Matthew 25v40; 1st Cor 15v50 are redeemed from earth to be part of a heavenly resurrection. [Rev 5vs9,10; 14v4; 20v6]

Everyone that lived between Genesis and Malachi and died before Jesus died [John 3v13] were not offered a heavenly hope but an earthly hope. -Genesis 22vs17,18; Rev22v2

'Dominion' or as Solomon wrote [Ecc8v9] about 'imperfect' man that he dominates man to his injury. That is why God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth. -Rev 11v18 B.

Spirit blending with flesh? Huh? Since flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God [1st Cor 15v50], and as verse 40 says, there are both heavenly and earthly bodies.
Not a mixing of bodies.

A misconception on your part....we are spirit...in the flesh.

Ecc[1v4] does mention the earth existing forever, and according to Isaiah [45v12,18] God created the earth to be inhabited.
Who remains according to Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30; 21v18 ?___________

Men's kingdoms are of this present world of unrighteous.
Pick up any morning newspaper and real all about the results of men's kingdoms ruling.
Then, pick up the Bible and read about what God's kingdom will do with men's kingdoms.
-Daniel 2v44; 7vs13,14; Isaiah 9v7.

What is the earth going to be full of according to Isaiah 11 vs4-9 ?

Where does Jesus have kingdom subjects according to Psalm 72v8 ?

You're picking through scripture like a puzzle.
The bad part is your technique.

The bits and pieces are interchangeable.
You can lead yourself in any direction you like.
Quote as you please and there will be some word of scripture, that will for that discussion, support you.

But this last post is worst of all.

We are here to learn all that we can and then back to God we go.
There will be a separation of body and soul.

Flesh cannot inherit the kingdom.
It is not of this world.

 

[Thief]

if adam had not sinned we would be ignorant of our actions and wouldn't know what good an evil meant...
ignorance is heaven on earth.

Nay...
You are equating sin with awareness.

Adam was aware of what he was doing....he chose to proceed.
Was this a bad thing?...most people think so.
But they also think all humans were condemned for it.
A misconception.

Man was never intended to live forever physically.
This life is brief and then we go to something else...something more.

That Adam chose the acquisition of knowledge was really a good thing.

It demonstrated that the alteration made in the Garden had taken hold.
Man would now be a creature of self determination.

Next step....something else....something more....

 

[Heathen Hammer]

I would like to point out Genesis 3:22 - 22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

God banished Adam and Eve from Eden just so they wouldn't be granted with everlasting life by eating the fruit from the tree of life.

Correct. That's why they eventually died, and no longer exist on the earth or in heaven.

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but I think you missed the point that since they had NOT eaten of the Tree of Life, Adam and Eve were //already// going to die.

So the threat of death from God, about eating of the Tree of Knowledge, was a lie.

If you disagree, then please explain why there was a Tree of Life in the Garden, then. Because it's presence thence makes no sense.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Nay...
You are equating sin with awareness.

Adam was aware of what he was doing....he chose to proceed.
Was this a bad thing?...most people think so.
..

Adam could not have thought so, though, so he is essentially guilty of being ignorant. He was incapable of making a moral choice. You can only pass such a judgment on his action because you live in a world where knowledge of Good and Evil can be had. He [Adam at that moment] did not live in such a world.

 

[waitasec]

Nay...
You are equating sin with awareness.

remember it was the tree of knowledge of ....

god intended his creation to remain aware of course but unaware of their actions....as a baby...who makes up their own rules

 

[Thief]

remember it was the tree of knowledge of ....

of good and evil

god intended his creation to remain aware of course but unaware of their actions....as a baby...who makes up their own rules

Nay again....

The tree of knowledge....of good and evil.....
was a necessary step in the Garden event.

Adam was given a situation...eat and you will die.
He was not told of his mortality was pending...anyway.

Man was never intended to live forever...physically.
But to live forever...spiritually....'the knowledge' is required.

That same knowledge you must be willing to risk...even at the point of a sword.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Nay again....

The tree of knowledge....of good and evil.....
was a necessary step in the Garden event.

Which he just made a statement about. Please address the point.

Adam was given a situation...eat and you will die.
He was not told of his mortality was pending...anyway.

So, as I said, the statement 'you will die' was a lie.

Man was never intended to live forever...physically.

Then, I ask again: why was there a Tree of Life in the Garden?

 

[Thief]

Adam could not have thought so, though, so he is essentially guilty of being ignorant. He was incapable of making a moral choice. You can only pass such a judgment on his action because you live in a world where knowledge of Good and Evil can be had. He did not.

Not so.

Whether you understand what you are doing...before you do it...
there are consequences pending...good or bad.

If you don't really understand....as you raise your hand...
you will....afterwards.

 

[Thief]

Which he just made a statement about. Please address the point.

So, as I said, the statement 'you will die' was a lie.


Then, I ask again: why was there a Tree of Life in the Garden?

Nay....'you will die'...
refers to the spiritual life.