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If America went without religion...

Papoon

Active Member
I worry we are in the type of country that a majority may not really care if the world were to end tomorrow. Mainly because Christians think Jesus is gonna ride in on some magic white horse to save humanity, and end the world in the process.

A paranoid delusional death cult. Like another religion which comes to mind....
Not that it started that way. Most mushroom trippers (like the Essenes) are much more chilled and pragmatic.
But they (the Roman Council of Churches) replaced the real sacrament with wafer biscuits, and the dialog quickly became horribly political and repressive.
History.
Who bothers with it ?
 

Papoon

Active Member
I guess I could be banned for posting that. C'est la vie.
My 'religious practice' involves deprogramming - ultimately a compassionate and loving endeavour, carried out with respect for my fellow humans.
But it is not generally tolerated or respected by those who demand respect...
;)
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Your circular logic would lead to every sinner, which is everybody, would need to cease to exist. I get the impression your jumping the gun a bit in the name of god.
I do not believe my logic has been circular. You're exactly right. According to our works, we all deserve to cease to exist. And it is for this reason that I am so grateful that
God has paid in full the debt for my sins.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
You are indeed an atheist.

Let me school you one more time...

Atheist: does not believe in God
Theist: believes in God, and believes that God intervenes and performs miracles, answers prayers, etc.
Deist: believes in God, but because of free will, that God does not intervene

I am a deist. The username should have given it away, and if that was not enough of a hint, then my numerous posts about deism should more than suffice to support my beliefs. I will pray for you, because you have an obscure view of what Christianity is and how a Christian is supposed to act in following Christ.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Let me school you one more time...

Atheist: does not believe in God
Theist: believes in God, and believes that God intervenes and performs miracles, answers prayers, etc.
Deist: believes in God, but because of free will, that God does not intervene

I am a deist. The username should have given it away, and if that was not enough of a hint, then my numerous posts about deism should more than suffice to support my beliefs. I will pray for you, because you have an obscure view of what Christianity is and how a Christian is supposed to act in following Christ.

Yes, I understand all of those definitions. And I understand perfectly well what a deist is. I will try to pay more attention to what you say, because I have gotten the impression that you are not a Christian. A Deist is not necessarily a Christian. Jesus is the Son of God. If you do not believe that, you are either an atheist or an agnostic in my opinion. Since you claim to be a deist, you cannot be agnostic.

Please tell me the purpose of your prayers since God does not intervene.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Yes, I understand all of those definitions. And I understand perfectly well what a deist is. I will try to pay more attention to what you say, because I have gotten the impression that you are not a Christian. A Deist is not necessarily a Christian. Jesus is the Son of God. If you do not believe that, you are either an atheist or an agnostic in my opinion. Since you claim to be a deist, you cannot be agnostic.

Please tell me the purpose of your prayers since God does not intervene.

The purpose of my prayer is that it is my expression of hope that you learn what it means to be a Christian, through self reflection and careful study of the message that Jesus taught, because right now you are way off base.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
The purpose of my prayer is that it is my expression of hope that you learn what it means to be a Christian, through self reflection and careful study of the message that Jesus taught, because right now you are way off base.

Okay, okay...aliens are real. Show me the verses where Jesus claims that aliens are real, and I will study that message as carefully as I can. And maybe like you, I can be on target.
 

Papoon

Active Member
God has paid in full the debt for my sins.
What exactly does that mean ?
Can you tell me, in your own words ?
Generally when asked that question, Christians just repeat or paraphrase without adding a jot of insight or meaningful commentary.
It is all very well to say that your experience validates the message of the bible re forgiveness, charity etc. But this peculiar piece of theology makes no sense whatsoever, and I have never heard a sensible word said about it.
It is central to christian dogma, yet is essentially meaningless. And totally weird !

What does it really mean, if anything ?
In your own words, please.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
What exactly does that mean ?
Can you tell me, in your own words ?
Generally when asked that question, Christians just repeat or paraphrase without adding a jot of insight or meaningful commentary.
It is all very well to say that your experience validates the message of the bible re forgiveness, charity etc. But this peculiar piece of theology makes no sense whatsoever, and I have never heard a sensible word said about it.
It is central to christian dogma, yet is essentially meaningless. And totally weird !

What does it really mean, if anything ?
In your own words, please.
First I would like to point out that this is no simple matter to explain. I do not have the knowledge that God has. Imagine trying to explain everything about yourself and fit it into just a few paragraphs. You can't do it. Now imagine trying to explain everything about every single person who has ever lived and place all that information into just a few paragraphs. Then imagine trying to explain in complete detail everything that is in existence and fit it onto the same page. It is impossible. So from the very start, I can assure you this will be a complete failure, so bare with me please because we are talking about something, that is more expansive than everything that exists.

God is eternal.
God is perfect.
And God is just.
Now consider evolution.
When things evolve they begin simple; and as they evolve they become more complex.
Now consider meditation, which is a state of mind engaged in contemplation and reflection.
I believe that before this existence that we are all so familiar with God. I stop there because that is all there was; God, an eternal and perfect mind engaged in contemplation and reflection. I believe it was during this time, or lack thereof, wherein God conceived us and all of creation. In other words, it was during this time, wherein God formed and devised His creation plan. Heaven and earth and everything in heaven and everything made of earth were conceived in the mind of God until the moment came to put his plan into action. Before He put the plan into action, "the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." And then "... the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." And then God spoke. When God spoke He said "let there be light". It was at this time when the Word of God manifested Himself.

You see, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life."

Everything evolves. Everything changes. With all things that evolve one instance of existence begets another. It is true with everything that is contained in our universe. And so it is true with all living things as well. Life begets new life. Every life form begets the next life form. And one of the key ingredients to life is Family. You cannot have life without family. And as we all know, we cannot have a happy family without love.

When God contemplated mankind, He saw the end from the beginning. He knew you, and He loved you because He saw the good in you, because the good in you was manifested to you through His Son. But families are not composed of robots. Free will is also a necessary component to family as well. If there is to be love, it is worthless unless it is given freely.

If I had many children, and one of those children should happen to choose to be an obstacle and a threat to the happiness and well being of all of my other children, though I love him, I could not allow that child of mine to exist as a member of my family. He would have to make a choice between being a part of our family or not. There are many people today who are indeed threats to the Family of God. They deserve to be destroyed.

We have to remember the nature of the universe which God created. We can see it in the laws of physics. I would call them the physical laws of God. One of them goes like this. For every action there must be an equal and opposite reaction. I can't explain how it is so, but I gather it is the same with spiritual components of existence as well. For those who hate, there must be an equal and opposite reaction of hate. For those who do harm, there must be an equal and opposite reaction of harm. You can call it karma if you like. But God so loved us that He incorporated a plan to deal with the corrupted free will of mankind. He gave His only begotten Son to die for all of the sins of the world, but it was going to have to have one stipulation. If you, despite your sinfulness, desire to be a part of the Family of God, you're going to have to believe that God sent His Son to die for you, and that God's Son willingly died for you because He also loves you. There are no free rides.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
It's okay little buddy - come to papa
From the very start of your participation in this thread you have revealed your bigotry against people of faith. I had responded to you in like manner, including a slight misrepresentation of what you said. When I tried to correct that once I saw that, you found it necessary to continue your assault on me. Even now with this most recent post, you continue with your demeaning commentary. I didn't realize that children participated on this forum. I will try to remember that in future discussions.
 

Timothy Bryce

Active Member
From the very start of your participation in this thread you have revealed your bigotry against people of faith. I had responded to you in like manner, including a slight misrepresentation of what you said. When I tried to correct that once I saw that, you found it necessary to continue your assault on me. Even now with this most recent post, you continue with your demeaning commentary. I didn't realize that children participated on this forum. I will try to remember that in future discussions.

I hold absolutely no bigotry against people of faith. In fact, my first post in this thread (the one that initially offended you so much that you felt compelled to go after me) indicated that I had grown to accept and tolerate certain people who may be considered obnoxious and self-righteous.

You were the one who went off half-cock and attempted to disseminate garbage and attack my credibility in this thread.

You got what you deserved little man.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
I hold absolutely no bigotry against people of faith. In fact, my first post in this thread (the one that initially offended you so much that you felt compelled to go after me) indicated that I had grown to accept and tolerate certain people who may be considered obnoxious and self-righteous.

You were the one who went off half-cock and attempted to disseminate garbage and attack my credibility in this thread.

You got what you deserved little man.
Well if that was what you were tying to say, you probably ought to have said that. Now, you have no credibility with me on any thread.
 

Timothy Bryce

Active Member
Well if that was what you were tying to say, you probably ought to have said that. Now, you have no credibility with me on any thread.

I did say exactly that. First post in this thread.

You obviously don't understand the definition of "bigot" either.

And as if anyone with half a brain would care about how credible they appear to you. You've proven that you're willfully ignorant, easily offended, poorly literate and incapable of being improved by your discussion with anyone in this thread.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
I did say exactly that. First post in this thread.

You obviously don't understand the definition of "bigot" either.

And as if anyone with half a brain would care about how credible they appear to you. You've proven that you're willfully ignorant, easily offended, poorly literate and incapable of being improved by your discussion with anyone in this thread.
The OP asked, "For the sake of argument What do you think America would be like if this figure was reversed and 80% of Americans did not have a religion? "

You responded, "If anything I would imagine, obnoxious self-righteousness would decline significantly."

The only way that obnoxious self-righteousness would decline if the figure stated in the OP was reversed is if the majority of religious people were obnoxious and self-righteous.
Since I am absolutely certain, beyond any doubt that your information did not come from a scientific study on the subject, I know the statement you made is a result of your bigotry against religious people. You have stereotyped an entire group of people as primarily obnoxious and self righteous. And that is bigotry.

And you continue to insult me even though I am in the right here, by even thinking of suggesting that I don't understand the definition of bigot. I have absolutely used the term in proper context and it absolutely applies to your statement. And since you are the one who made the statement, it applies not only to your statement, but to you as well.

Bigotry is the possession or expression of strong, unreasonable prejudices or opinions.
http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-synonyms/bigotry

And that is exactly what you had done.

Anyhow, I'm done...that *stuff* just irks the *heck* out of me.
 
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Timothy Bryce

Active Member
The OP asked, "For the sake of argument What do you think America would be like if this figure was reversed and 80% of Americans did not have a religion? "

You responded, "If anything I would imagine, obnoxious self-righteousness would decline significantly."

The only way that obnoxious self-righteousness would decline if the figure stated in the OP was reversed is if the majority of religious people were obnoxious and self-righteous.
Since I am absolutely certain, beyond any doubt that your information did not come from a scientific study on the subject, I know the statement you made is a result of your bigotry against religious people. You have stereotyped an entire group of people as primarily obnoxious and self righteous. And that is bigotry.

And you continue to insult me even though I am in the right here, by even thinking of suggesting that I don't understand the definition of bigot. I have absolutely used the term in proper context and it absolutely applies to your statement. And since you are the one who made the statement, it applies not only to your statement, but to you as well.

Bigotry is the possession or expression of strong, unreasonable prejudices or opinions.
http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-synonyms/bigotry

And that is exactly what you had done.

Anyhow, I'm done...that *stuff* just irks the *heck* out of me.

I stereotyped noone and all your "arguments" (and I use that term loosely) against me are founded on logical fallacies and straw men.

Pro tip: As you attempt to stumble your thick little self through life, I would suggest that you curb how quick you are to label others as "bigots" if you expect to go anywhere worthwhile or meaningful in today's world. Or it would be worth you noting this even just to avoid being punched in the face should you lob it at the wrong person.

Lol I'm done dignifying your garbage with responses. It's a rule of thumb to never argue with an idiot - but I feel like the partipants in dressing you down as much as you have been to be something of a public service. It's been fun as it has been easy destroying you in this thread - and I guarantee I'm not the only one who thinks so.
 
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