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If America went without religion...

Papoon

Active Member
First I would like to point out that this is no simple matter to explain. I do not have the knowledge that God has. Imagine trying to explain everything about yourself and fit it into just a few paragraphs. You can't do it. Now imagine trying to explain everything about every single person who has ever lived and place all that information into just a few paragraphs. Then imagine trying to explain in complete detail everything that is in existence and fit it onto the same page. It is impossible. So from the very start, I can assure you this will be a complete failure, so bare with me please because we are talking about something, that is more expansive than everything that exists.

God is eternal.
God is perfect.
And God is just.
Now consider evolution.
When things evolve they begin simple; and as they evolve they become more complex.
Now consider meditation, which is a state of mind engaged in contemplation and reflection.
I believe that before this existence that we are all so familiar with God. I stop there because that is all there was; God, an eternal and perfect mind engaged in contemplation and reflection. I believe it was during this time, or lack thereof, wherein God conceived us and all of creation. In other words, it was during this time, wherein God formed and devised His creation plan. Heaven and earth and everything in heaven and everything made of earth were conceived in the mind of God until the moment came to put his plan into action. Before He put the plan into action, "the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." And then "... the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." And then God spoke. When God spoke He said "let there be light". It was at this time when the Word of God manifested Himself.

You see, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life."

Everything evolves. Everything changes. With all things that evolve one instance of existence begets another. It is true with everything that is contained in our universe. And so it is true with all living things as well. Life begets new life. Every life form begets the next life form. And one of the key ingredients to life is Family. You cannot have life without family. And as we all know, we cannot have a happy family without love.

When God contemplated mankind, He saw the end from the beginning. He knew you, and He loved you because He saw the good in you, because the good in you was manifested to you through His Son. But families are not composed of robots. Free will is also a necessary component to family as well. If there is to be love, it is worthless unless it is given freely.

If I had many children, and one of those children should happen to choose to be an obstacle and a threat to the happiness and well being of all of my other children, though I love him, I could not allow that child of mine to exist as a member of my family. He would have to make a choice between being a part of our family or not. There are many people today who are indeed threats to the Family of God. They deserve to be destroyed.

We have to remember the nature of the universe which God created. We can see it in the laws of physics. I would call them the physical laws of God. One of them goes like this. For every action there must be an equal and opposite reaction. I can't explain how it is so, but I gather it is the same with spiritual components of existence as well. For those who hate, there must be an equal and opposite reaction of hate. For those who do harm, there must be an equal and opposite reaction of harm. You can call it karma if you like. But God so loved us that He incorporated a plan to deal with the corrupted free will of mankind. He gave His only begotten Son to die for all of the sins of the world, but it was going to have to have one stipulation. If you, despite your sinfulness, desire to be a part of the Family of God, you're going to have to believe that God sent His Son to die for you, and that God's Son willingly died for you because He also loves you. There are no free rides.

"I do not have the knowledge that God has"

Yet you think you do....

"When God contemplated mankind, He saw the end from the beginning. He knew you, and He loved you because He saw the good in you, because the good in you was manifested to you through His Son. "

You actually think you know that.

In fact all you have is the circular logic that it must be true because the bible claims to be God's personal blog.

Don't use words like evolution if you can't grasp the basics.... here is an example of rubbish thinking...
"Now consider evolution.
When things evolve they begin simple; and as they evolve they become more complex. "

Not true. Complexity is almost an anomaly. The vast majority of life on earth, by population and biomass, is microscopic and relatively simple. Microbes, nanobes, bacteria and viruses.

In fact, if a mutation which was simpler also proved to have a survival advantage in its ecological niche, that would also be an example of evolution.

"Life begets new life. Every life form begets the next life form. And one of the key ingredients to life is Family. You cannot have life without family. And as we all know, we cannot have a happy family without love."

Ha! Then you must believe that when you have a bacterial infection, you are hosting a loving Family !

And yet you kill millions of them as though they were nothing.

They are God's Children ! LMAO !


"He gave His only begotten Son to die for all of the sins of the world, but it was going to have to have one stipulation. If you, despite your sinfulness, desire to be a part of the Family of God, you're going to have to believe that God sent His Son to die for you, and that God's Son willingly died for you because He also loves you. There are no free rides."

This is nothing more than a paranoid delusional assertion based on your circular logic.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Sonofason had said,
"I do not have the knowledge that God has"

Yet you think you do....
God has given us a great deal of information.

Sonofason had said,
"When God contemplated mankind, He saw the end from the beginning. He knew you, and He loved you because He saw the good in you, because the good in you was manifested to you through His Son. "

You actually think you know that.
Yes, that is what I believe.

In fact all you have is the circular logic that it must be true because the bible claims to be God's personal blog.
It doesn't bother me that you think what you think. And yes, I believe that God has passed along a great deal of valuable information to us for our benefit.

Don't use words like evolution if you can't grasp the basics....
I will use words how ever I choose, regardless whether you think I grasp the concepts or not. I assure you I have a fairly good understanding of evolution. That doesn't make evolution true. Neither does it make evolution false.

here is an example of rubbish thinking...
Sonofason had said,
"Now consider evolution.
When things evolve they begin simple; and as they evolve they become more complex. "
So you do believe that it is possible that human beings were a first life form, and might not have evolved from something less complex? Bravo...well done.

Not true. Complexity is almost an anomaly. The vast majority of life on earth, by population and biomass, is microscopic and relatively simple. Microbes, nanobes, bacteria and viruses.

In fact, if a mutation which was simpler also proved to have a survival advantage in its ecological niche, that would also be an example of evolution.
I suppose that if evolution is true, more complex species could theoretically evolve into something less complex.

"Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes, 46 total. If the nondisunction only affects one chromosome in a gamete, the resulting zygote will have 22 pairs and one triplet, or 47 chromosomes total, or 22 pairs and one single, or 45 chromosomes total. This is very common in human meiosis! What's less common is the zygote surviving this: most zygotes with such genomes will spontaneously abort or miscarry early in the embryo stage."
https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-sp...volve-to-be-a-species-with-a-different-number
Please show me an example of a species with X amount of chromosomes evolving into another species with X-1 chromosomes.

Sonofason had said,
"Life begets new life. Every life form begets the next life form. And one of the key ingredients to life is Family. You cannot have life without family. And as we all know, we cannot have a happy family without love."

Ha! Then you must believe that when you have a bacterial infection, you are hosting a loving Family !
I never said that all life forms have a capacity for happiness. But we do.

And yet you kill millions of them as though they were nothing.
Compared to me, they are nothing.

They are God's Children ! LMAO !
Wow, I must have struck a nerve because you appear to have completely lost it. God created all life, but that in no way implies or suggests that all life is part of the family of God. People aren't even a part of God's Family until they become part of His family by adoption. Read your scripture, and you my know something about this. If not, remain ignorant.

Sonofason had said,
"He gave His only begotten Son to die for all of the sins of the world, but it was going to have to have one stipulation. If you, despite your sinfulness, desire to be a part of the Family of God, you're going to have to believe that God sent His Son to die for you, and that God's Son willingly died for you because He also loves you. There are no free rides."

This is nothing more than a paranoid delusional assertion based on your circular logic.
You are certainly free to believe what you believe.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
I stereotyped noone and all your "arguments" (and I use that term loosely) against me are founded on logical fallacies and straw men.

Pro tip: As you attempt to stumble your thick little self through life, I would suggest that you curb how quick you are to label others as "bigots" if you expect to go anywhere worthwhile or meaningful in today's world. Or it would be worth you noting this even just to avoid being punched in the face should you lob it at the wrong person.

Lol I'm done dignifying your garbage with responses. It's a rule of thumb to never argue with an idiot - but I feel like the partipants in dressing you down as much as you have been to be something of a public service. It's been fun as it has been easy destroying you in this thread - and I guarantee I'm not the only one who thinks so.
You can call me what ever you like...The fact remains that your comment revealed your bigotry. Since you have repeatedly said you are done with this conversation, I expect not to hear from you again.
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
About 20% of the USA's population have no religious affiliation whereas 80% do affiliate with a religion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_the_United_States

For the sake of argument What do you think America would be like if this figure was reversed and 80% of Americans did not have a religion?

What would change (if anything)?

That's pretty close to USSR, North Korea and communist China levels, how'd they work out?
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
That's pretty close to USSR, North Korea and communist China levels, how'd they work out?

Heres a map of countries by percentage of their population who are not religious.

Irreligion_map.png


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_irreligion#

You'll notice France, Sweden, Finland, South Korea and Japan are all pretty high up on the scale and are all democracies. As a rough guide here's freedom houses map of the world. Aqua/green are free, yellow partially free and grey not free.

2016_Freedom_House_world_map.png


Blue shows electoral democracies...

Electoral_democracies.svg


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World#
 

Timothy Bryce

Active Member
That's pretty close to USSR, North Korea and communist China levels, how'd they work out?

Terrible post.

It's a shame this direction of ignorance/misinformation is actually accepted by such a large portion of the US population; silver lining is that it's one of the few things in the nation that is actually correcting itself at a reasonable pace.
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Terrible post.

It's a shame this direction of ignorance/misinformation is actually accepted by such a large portion of the US population; silver lining is that it's one of the few things in the nation that is actually correcting itself at a reasonable pace.

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool." - William Shakespeare
;)
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Heres a map of countries by percentage of their population who are not religious.

Irreligion_map.png


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_irreligion#

You'll notice France, Sweden, Finland, South Korea and Japan are all pretty high up on the scale and are all democracies. As a rough guide here's freedom houses map of the world. Aqua/green are free, yellow partially free and grey not free.

2016_Freedom_House_world_map.png


Blue shows electoral democracies...

Electoral_democracies.svg


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World#

Right, so by and large, those countries with the most religious freedom are the least atheist. Atheism generally requires a large government oppression of religious freedom
 

Timothy Bryce

Active Member
Right, so by and large, those countries with the most religious freedom are the least atheist. Atheism generally requires a large government oppression of religious freedom

No it doesn't; usually it indicates a country whose culture prioritizes and privileges better education as opposed to anti-intellectualism, which is a huge problem in countries like USA & Australia.

How do France, Sweden, Finland, South Korea and Japan implement "large government oppression of religious freedom"?

While the US constitution includes an amendment for religious freedom, culturally it's a completely different story.


That **** is embarrassing.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Right, so by and large, those countries with the most religious freedom are the least atheist. Atheism generally requires a large government oppression of religious freedom
The US is pretty atheistic, & we have oodles of religious freedom.
Now for an irrelevant video....
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
No it doesn't; usually it indicates a country whose culture prioritizes and privileges better education as opposed to anti-intellectualism, which is a huge problem in countries like USA & Australia.

How do France, Sweden, Finland, South Korea and Japan implement "large government oppression of religious freedom"?


That **** is embarrassing.

You could have asked all the people who risked their lives fleeing those places to reach America

How many of those countries have you spent time in? Or is your knowledge of them merely intellectual?
 
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