If America went without religion...

[Papoon]

Well, I have experienced God because I have pursued Him based on what the authors of the Bible suggested as a means to finding Him. And since I have experienced God as a result, I believe that what the Bible says is true. And now that I have the Holy Spirit living inside of me, which helps me discern truth from lies, it has become clear to me that what is written in the Bible is true.

The Bible tells us it is wrong to steal from others. Having been stolen from, my heart confirms that what is written in the Bible about stealing is true. Therefore I do believe thieves should be shot and killed, or better just cease to exist. The Bible tells us that adultery is wrong. My heart also tells me that adultery is wrong. So I believe that what the Bible says about adultery is true. I do believe that adulterers deserve to die, or even better cease to exist. I could go on and on. I read what is written in the Bible and my heart tells me that what is written in it is true. There is so much of what is written in the Bible that my heart confirms as true, that I have taken a leap of faith, and have come to believe that all of the statements contained in the Bible is true.

It is not circular logic when that which is claimed is supported in truth by one's own experience.

What you are saying is that your heart is the source of your goodness.

You don't need a middleman, or an authority to back up what you realise for yourself.

 

[Sonofason]

Then you don't know the Bible.

I know the Bible quite well. But I only accept the King James Version of the Bible. All others are in my opinion either near frauds or complete frauds.

Matthew 17:14-18 very clearly shows that the boy was afflicted, and that he would fall down for no reason. In the KJV it states that he was "lunatick and sorely vexed." In the ESV it says he has seizures. In the ASV it calls the condition epilepsy. In verse 18 of all three translations, Jesus rebukes the demon and it comes out of the boy.

It goes without saying that the writers of the Bible did not know much in the way of scientific or medical understanding as compared to today. When they could not explain something, they often used the supernatural, such as demonic possession. This is also why the translations get updates/revised as both science and medicine are able to explain things.

Your evidence is flawed as it does not come from a genuine translation of the Bible. The King James does not incorporate the word epilepsy in those verses. Those verses are not about epilepsy.

Not only do I have a ThD from seminary, but other theologians and translators are the ones that update/revise biblical translations. We agree on the nature of those updates and revisions. It does not do any good to cling to archaic notions when modern understanding can explain what the ancients did not understand.

I'm sorry, but I am not impressed.

Are you calling me, a doctor of theology, as well as others who are specialists in the field, a bunch of liars?

I have no idea if you are a liar or not. You may very well be a liar. But you are certainly misinformed.
I do not require the so called knowledge of so called specialists to understand the Bible and to recognize truth when I see it.



[/QUOTE]You are missing the bigger picture, but that is to be expected. It is not that "telescopes are evidence of aliens" but rather that modern technology has shown that the earth is not the center of the universe (geocentricity). The Bible was written in a time period that viewed the earth as the center of creation. When Galileo pointed a telescope at the night sky, he had an "uh oh" moment because for centuries the Roman Catholic Church held to the belief in geocentricity, and he just proved them wrong.

We now have space shuttles, satellites, space probes, Mars rovers, astronauts, etc. The Hubble has tracked billions upon billions of galaxies. Get out of the "earth only" train of thought. Think on a cosmic scale. Heck, there are now astronauts, cosmonauts and other countries' space agencies that have said aliens exist. The USA is trying to keep a lid on it for reasons unknown.

If the USA and NASA ever came out and said "aliens exist," I'd think that a large portion of the country would say, "yeah...and? We knew this already. How about that game last night!!!"



Just because we do not have the technology to travel to other galaxies (much less plausibly within our own) does not mean that life is nonexistent elsewhere. Our space exploration is not even a century old. We are mere infants that are barely crawling right now. I believe in a God that is all powerful, and if God wants to put life on 100,000,000,000,000 planets that we can't get to, then so be it. God is above and beyond human limitations and understanding.


Addendum: if you think that the Bible is inerrant and makes no mistakes, then you need to think again. The Bible that we have is a copy of a copy of a copy. The original works of the OT, called the Autographs, have long been destroyed. The Persian king Nebuchadnezzar II destroyed the temples in Jerusalem, way back in 587 BC, and those originals went up in flames. The writings of the NT are long lost/destroyed as well.

What you hold in your hand this day can't be compared to what was originally written. Humans make mistakes. Therefore it is a safe bet that biblical scribes made mistakes over the centuries, especially when translating across languages. A quick study of linguistics between Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine Greek, Latin and English will show that.

Lastly, if you are as Christian as you claim, then instead of arguing perhaps you should just "turn the other cheek." [/QUOTE]

Nothing you've said indicates that aliens exist.
And I refuse to be shamed by an atheist.

 

[Sonofason]

You're so far off base. It's ridiculous; and you're getting shredded in this thread.

No one is shredding anything I have said. No one can.

Where did I even slightly imply that I am "better than" anyone else? And what gives you the right to speak on behalf of "all believers" (whoever the hell that includes) and discern what's offensive to other people and what isn't?

You, an atheist, suggesting that the world would be filled with less obnoxious, self-righteousness without Christians implies that you, an atheist, is better than all Christians.

How do you know that I don't believe in any conception of any god?

Because your word choices make it very blatant and obvious.

I never even claimed that all "people who do believe that God has established a moral code obnoxious and self-righteous".

You said, in response to the OP, "If anything I would imagine, obnoxious self-righteousness would decline significantly." If you forget the OP, I advise you to go back and read it.

And you're the one banging on about straw man arguments. Are you kidding?

I see, so your one of those Pee Wee Herman fans who argues with "I know you are, but what am I".
I don't have the patience for that nonsense. I do not have a need to build straw men. My arguments are sound.

I'm willing to bet that an exercise in imposing one's moral code on another would constitute obnoxious self-righteousness in an infinite number of contexts. The irony of this entire exchange this that you're doing it right now and behaving obnoxiously and self-righteously as a result.

No this is just how I respond to obnoxious and self-righteous people. I don't believe in an eye for an eye. I prefer cutting off the heads of those who take out someone's eye.

I made a perfectly valid statement. You got your feeling hurt and went way off on a tangent in an attempt to heal your ego. Your "arguments" in this thread also reveal how limited your mind is.

No, you did not make a perfectly valid statement. You made a bigoted obnoxious self-righteous statement.

 

[Sonofason]

My Apologies.
I do not know how to dumb it down any further for you.

It's okay. Everything you have said seems dumb enough for me.

 

[Sonofason]

What you are saying is that your heart is the source of your goodness.

You don't need a middleman, or an authority to back up what you realise for yourself.

I suppose you could say that.
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20)

 

[Timothy Bryce]

No one is shredding anything I have said. No one can.


You, an atheist, suggesting that the world would be filled with less obnoxious, self-righteousness without Christians implies that you, an atheist, is better than all Christians.


Because your word choices make it very blatant and obvious.


You said, in response to the OP, "If anything I would imagine, obnoxious self-righteousness would decline significantly." If you forget the OP, I advise you to go back and read it.


I see, so your one of those Pee Wee Herman fans who argues with "I know you are, but what am I".
I don't have the patience for that nonsense. I do not have a need to build straw men. My arguments are sound.


No this is just how I respond to obnoxious and self-righteous people. I don't believe in an eye for an eye. I prefer cutting off the heads of those who take out someone's eye.


No, you did not make a perfectly valid statement. You made a bigoted obnoxious self-righteous statement.

This is either extremely poor trolling or you seriously need to enroll in an adult literacy course. Have you suffered any head injuries recently?

How do you know I'm an atheist? I haven't claimed to be.

"If anything I would imagine, obnoxious self-righteousness would decline significantly." ≠ "All Christian's are obnoxious/self righteous."

Stop wasting my time.

 

[Kemosloby]

A very Buddhist attitude.
No god required.
No belief necessary.
Not even Buddhism.
Just a sensitivity to an innate sense of compassion is all that is required to be 'good'.

I never said doing one good thing made you good. Though it might be enough that God will spare you if you believe, maybe even give you a bonus in heaven. Giving to the poor is laying up treasure in heaven.

 

[McBell]

It's okay. Everything you have said seems dumb enough for me.

And yet you still do not understand how you are flat out wrong...

 

[Sonofason]

This is either extremely poor trolling or you seriously need to enroll in an adult literacy course. Have you suffered any head injuries recently?

How do you know I'm an atheist? I haven't claimed to be.

"If anything I would imagine, obnoxious self-righteousness would decline significantly." ≠ "All Christian's are obnoxious/self righteous."

Stop wasting my time.

I understand that your statement was actually that if there were fewer religious people, not just Christians, that obnoxious self-righteousness would decline. In order to say that you must believe that there are more obnoxious self-righteous religious people than there are obnoxious self-righteous atheists. And in fact, that may be true. If that is your point of contention, I might concede. But if you believe for example, that in America, if there were fewer Christian then obnoxious self-righteousness would decline I would be correct in my assessment of your statement.

 

[Kemosloby]

Except the investigations did not reveal any.
Which is the point you keep dodging, avoiding, etc...

Better luck next time

Yeah I know the investigations couldn't have been more thorough if Hillary had led them herself.

 

[Sonofason]

And yet you still do not understand how you are flat out wrong...

You are absolutely right.

 

[Neo Deist]

I know the Bible quite well. But I only accept the King James Version of the Bible. All others are in my opinion either near frauds or complete frauds.

I stopped reading right there. No wonder your notions are misguided.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

I understand that your statement was actually that if there were fewer religious people, not just Christians, that obnoxious self-righteousness would decline.

Wow - and it only took you just shy of 30 hours to finally realize it. That's some brain you got on ya.

In order to say that you must believe that there are more obnoxious self-righteous religious people than there are obnoxious self-righteous atheists.

Lol no it certainly does not follow with that. And that's not what I've ever claimed. Those are just your failed inferences.

And in fact, that may be true. If that is your point of contention, I might concede. But if you believe for example, that in America, if there were fewer Christian then obnoxious self-righteousness would decline I would be correct in my assessment of your statement.

You're correct about nothing. I'm starting to think you don't even understand what you're even typing. This is hilarious.

 

[Sonofason]

Wow - and it only took you just shy of 30 hours to finally realize it. That's some brain you got on ya.

Lol no it certainly does not follow with that. And that's not what I've ever claimed. Those are just your failed inferences.

You're correct about nothing. I'm starting to think you don't even understand what you're even typing. This is hilarious.

Why don't you actually tell me what you meant with your response to the OP since you are now refraining from honesty with your refusal to tell the truth.
I don't really care what you think.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

I don't really care what you think.

Lol - then why did you quote me ten odd times directing questions at me all the way through?

You've humiliated yourself in this thread.

 

[Neo Deist]

And I refuse to be shamed by an atheist.

Too late...though I am not an atheist.

 

[Neo Deist]

You've humiliated yourself in this thread.

Many times over...

 

[Papoon]

I suppose you could say that.
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20)

That is nice poetry. Don't assume that the work of secular artists is any less 'spiritual' for lack of institutional endorsement. Big Mistake.

 

[idav]

Well, I have experienced God because I have pursued Him based on what the authors of the Bible suggested as a means to finding Him. And since I have experienced God as a result, I believe that what the Bible says is true. And now that I have the Holy Spirit living inside of me, which helps me discern truth from lies, it has become clear to me that what is written in the Bible is true.

The Bible tells us it is wrong to steal from others. Having been stolen from, my heart confirms that what is written in the Bible about stealing is true. Therefore I do believe thieves should be shot and killed, or better just cease to exist. The Bible tells us that adultery is wrong. My heart also tells me that adultery is wrong. So I believe that what the Bible says about adultery is true. I do believe that adulterers deserve to die, or even better cease to exist. I could go on and on. I read what is written in the Bible and my heart tells me that what is written in it is true. There is so much of what is written in the Bible that my heart confirms as true, that I have taken a leap of faith, and have come to believe that all of the statements contained in the Bible is true.

It is not circular logic when that which is claimed is supported in truth by one's own experience.

Your circular logic would lead to every sinner, which is everybody, would need to cease to exist. I get the impression your jumping the gun a bit in the name of god.

 

[idav]

About 20% of the USA's population have no religious affiliation whereas 80% do affiliate with a religion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_the_United_States

For the sake of argument What do you think America would be like if this figure was reversed and 80% of Americans did not have a religion?

What would change (if anything)?

I worry we are in the type of country that a majority may not really care if the world were to end tomorrow. Mainly because Christians think Jesus is gonna ride in on some magic white horse to save humanity, and end the world in the process.